Solja247 Posted July 4, 2009 Posted July 4, 2009 I have started up a thread about the 28 fundamentals, but now I have another issue which has been on my mind. First of all, when I read the Bible I do not read it as an Adventist, but how it is supposed to be taken. So my question is how can we be so arrogant to say that we have 'the truth' when only Jesus has the truth? Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Jesus is the truth. Now please dont say, 'we keep the sabbath, we have the health message, we have the prophetic interpretation, thus we have the truth.' ONLY JESUS HAS THE TRUTH! Thus at the moment I believe that no churches have the truth, only Jesus does. I believe the Adventist Church is the most Biblicalest, but not the truth. Quote
Moderators John317 Posted July 4, 2009 Moderators Posted July 4, 2009 ONLY JESUS HAS THE TRUTH! I know what you mean, but in actuality, Jesus does not HAVE the truth. Jesus Christ IS THE Truth. There are many truths-- but only Jesus IS Truth. He is Truth incarnate, in the flesh. Why? Because He is the self-existent and eternal God. As John 1: 1 says, the Word (Christ) is everything that God is, making Christ God Himself. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Solja247 Posted July 4, 2009 Author Posted July 4, 2009 Yes you are right, I mean Jesus is the truth. Why then do we say we have 'the truth'? Quote
Moderators John317 Posted July 4, 2009 Moderators Posted July 4, 2009 Yes you are right, I mean Jesus is the truth. Why then do we say we have 'the truth'? The Jehovah Witnesses and the Mormons use the same language-- "we have the truth." What SDAs usually mean by it is that we as a church have access to the truth that God has revealed to the world at this time. We understand the prophecies and know the Three Angels Messages. But of course it is easy for people to say that and yet forget that none of these things help us at all if we don't obey them and let them be a part of our actual lives. So while it is true that we have "the truth," if we aren't living it and putting it into practice, the truth can turn out to be a curse. If we refuse to live it, the day will come when the church will be weighed in the balances of the heavenly sanctuary and will be found "wanting." Simply knowing the truth is no assurance or guarantee that we will be saved any more than being an Israelite was a guarantee of being saved. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Solja247 Posted July 4, 2009 Author Posted July 4, 2009 Quote: What SDAs usually mean by it is that we as a church have access to the truth that God has revealed to the world at this time. I am going to objective. How are you so arrogant to say you have 'the truth'? That your interpretation of the Bible is the truth? Quote: the bible say if you love me keep my commandmentsthat is all 10 not just 1 I couldnt agree more but remember this is our interpretation. What about the catholics who think they have the truth. or the baptists, or the pentecostals? Quote: there is another bible truth about the state ofthe Dead that most Christians do not accept or understand More people are learning about this truth. its funny Luther and other early reformers believed in soul sleep. Quote: all S.D.A. Christians should be doing is getting people to understand what the bible says Why cant we let the Bible speak for itself? Like I said before, I dont believe this church has the truth, no church or people, even Paul had the truth. Jesus is the only truth. Quote
Robert Posted July 4, 2009 Posted July 4, 2009 Why cant we let the Bible speak for itself? Hmmm? Well, when I get to heaven I've got a whopper of a question for God: Why did you decide to communicate to us through the Bible? You must also remember that the Bible didn't come in until years after Paul. What about all those people in the world before that time? Point is the Bible is highly interpretive. None us agree on everything. I like Pastor Sequeira, but even then I don't fully agree with him on everything. So we all view things differently. Quote
Robert Posted July 4, 2009 Posted July 4, 2009 HEY SOLJA247 if JESUS or GOD THE FATHER said something in the bible that is the truth that is no ones interpretation so if GOD said keep all 10 of the commandments the we need to obey what GOD says in the bible That's your interpretation....You must consider time and place...even culture to some extent. For example, Jesus commanded, "You shall be perfect (how perfect?) just as your heavenly Father is perfect." If this is true, just as it reads, then you and I are in trouble. Why? Are you as perfect as God? Answer: 1 John 1:8 So "no"...you and I aren't perfect. In fact there has never been a time in our lives that we could say "I am perfect".....We can say, "by the grace of God I'm maturing", but perfection? No way..... So, you see, you must look at the context of everything said in the Bible....Not only that but you can't reason out spiritual things with the human intellect. So it's a bit more complicated then you might think.... Quote
Moderators Kevin H Posted July 4, 2009 Moderators Posted July 4, 2009 It was popular terminalogy in the 1800s, but in the 1800s and up til 1923 bascially meant accepting the truths that were being discovered at that time as opposed to following traditions. The truths of the literal second coming of Jesus prior to the millinium, that the Sabbath was important and that the Millerite movement was lead by God and pointed us to Jesus' ministry in heaven. After the 1923 General Conference and it's accpetance of Fundamentalism and throwing out of the moderates, the fundamentalist reading of "the truth" went from the current truths that we are learning, to THE TRUTH! Quote
Dr. Rich Posted July 4, 2009 Posted July 4, 2009 God does not download all of the truth like we do on the computer. We learn one step at a time. Yes, Jesus is the truth and the way, but this also means that what Jesus said and taught is the truth and the way. The problem I see is that most think that the whole bible is what Jesus said and taught. This is not so and it is the main reason I place the words of Jesus given to us by His eyewitness as found in John 14:26,27 and 17:20. He never said that everyone will 'remember' everything I said--only the eyewitnesses would remember and then write them down. Paul and Luke were now eyewitnesses so even though their writings are fun to read, perhaps we should take more stock in what the eyewitnesses wrote. Jesus said" Walk in the light while you have it" meaning that the light (truth) keeps moving. If one thinks they already have all of the truth then they soon will be in the dark. I have found the SDA Church is the same group found in Matthew 25's ten bridesmaids and the talents. The seven messages found in Revelation 2 and 3 are to this group. They don't know it yet because they are spiritually sleeping. Blessings (SDA) Quote
Woody Posted July 4, 2009 Posted July 4, 2009 Yes you are right, I mean Jesus is the truth. Why then do we say we have 'the truth'? Got Jesus? Got Truth. Don't know about you ... but I've got Jesus .... so I've got The Truth. Pray you do 2. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Dr. Rich Posted July 4, 2009 Posted July 4, 2009 And how do you know you have Jesus? Could you be mistaken by putting what you think Jesus is all about into a box and declare that "I've got Jesus"? If one does not know and obey what Jesus said and taught then how could they say "I've got Jesus"? Quote
Woody Posted July 4, 2009 Posted July 4, 2009 Quote: Rev. 3:20 "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." Quote: 1 John 5:12, 13. "He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God." Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Members phkrause Posted July 4, 2009 Members Posted July 4, 2009 Good post dgrimm. I believe that Jesus did a lot of quoting from the Bible when he was here. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Robert Posted July 4, 2009 Posted July 4, 2009 before the Old Testament was written the people had 1st hand experience and told it to other people by speech by word of mouth.... This is speculation. Do you realize how big our world is? There was no TV, radio or phone for world wide communication. Neither was there global transportation. Much of the Old Testament is God's dealing with Israel....IT is history. Much is also Old Covenant, however grace is sprinkled in the mix. The NT is a much clearer view of God and salvation. Without the NT we would have little to go on. In fact the OT is really OC. The NT is the reality of the NC. How then did Folks learn of God? Romans 1:19 ...What may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse....2:4 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law [The Torah - part of the OT], do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.... Quote
Members phkrause Posted July 4, 2009 Members Posted July 4, 2009 I have to agree with dgrimm on this. And I believe EGW also agree's with dgrimm. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Solja247 Posted July 4, 2009 Author Posted July 4, 2009 Quote: It was popular terminalogy in the 1800s, but in the 1800s and up til 1923 bascially meant accepting the truths that were being discovered at that time as opposed to following traditions. The truths of the literal second coming of Jesus prior to the millinium, that the Sabbath was important and that the Millerite movement was lead by God and pointed us to Jesus' ministry in heaven. These truths were not discovered by the Adventist church but re-discovered. Martin luther believed the soon return of Jesus, Marting Luther also believed in soul sleep. The Sabbath was being kepts before 1800s Quote: God does not download all of the truth like we do on the computer. We learn one step at a time. Yes, Jesus is the truth and the way, but this also means that what Jesus said and taught is the truth and the way. So you are saying it took God about 1800 years to show people 'the truth'? Quote
Solja247 Posted July 4, 2009 Author Posted July 4, 2009 Quote: Got Jesus? Got Truth. Don't know about you ... but I've got Jesus .... so I've got The Truth. Pray you do 2. Yes, you are right. But just because you have Jesus does not mean what you believe (other than a belief in Jesus) is the truth or is better than anyone else Quote: And how do you know you have Jesus? Could you be mistaken by putting what you think Jesus is all about into a box and declare that "I've got Jesus"? If one does not know and obey what Jesus said and taught then how could they say "I've got Jesus"? if one reads their bible, pray and helps people then who are we to say they dont have Jesus? Quote
Solja247 Posted July 4, 2009 Author Posted July 4, 2009 Quote: our goal as followers of JESUS is to show peoplethe truth and expose the lies of SATAN You are not going to convert many catholics, or anyone for that matter if you say they are all going to hell because they (*Insert some doctrine here*) But it is love. That is why the expression 'we have the truth' should be removed from our minds. Quote
Robert Posted July 4, 2009 Posted July 4, 2009 I have to agree with dgrimm on this. And I believe EGW also agree's with dgrimm. pk But EGW says to get it from your Bible.....In fact she is the one who said, "The Bible and the Bible only".... Rob Quote
Ron Amnsn Posted July 4, 2009 Posted July 4, 2009 Originally Posted By: dgrimm60 before the Old Testament was written the people had 1st hand experience and told it to other people by speech by word of mouth.... This is speculation. Do you realize how big our world is? There was no TV, radio or phone for world wide communication. Neither was there global transportation. Yes, Robert, the world is huge. But every person on earth was descended from Adam and Noah so every person had opportunity to hear God's word from his own forefathers. When the first generation on earth has God's story to tell, it reaches the whole earth from the start and is passed to each person as they are born. God's story was known to every person at the beginning. In reality it was darkness , not truth, that faced the challenge of spreading across the whole huge earth. This happened when some descendants of Noah chose not to pass on God's story and by their neglect darkness slowly spread. Nevertheless, some aspects of God's story were still known by people outside of Israel such as Abimelech, Melchizedek, Jethro, Balaam, and others. Quote
Robert Posted July 4, 2009 Posted July 4, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert This is speculation. Do you realize how big our world is? There was no TV' date=' radio or phone for world wide communication. Neither was there global transportation. [/quote'] God's story was known to every person at the beginning. Okay, I can buy this to a point... Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted July 4, 2009 Moderators Posted July 4, 2009 I have started up a thread about the 28 fundamentals, but now I have another issue which has been on my mind. First of all, when I read the Bible I do not read it as an Adventist, but how it is supposed to be taken. So my question is how can we be so arrogant to say that we have 'the truth' when only Jesus has the truth? Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Jesus is the truth. Now please dont say, 'we keep the sabbath, we have the health message, we have the prophetic interpretation, thus we have the truth.' ONLY JESUS HAS THE TRUTH! Thus at the moment I believe that no churches have the truth, only Jesus does. I believe the Adventist Church is the most Biblicalest, but not the truth. Hearing a SDA say "we have the truth" has always made me cringe. It sounds so elitist and exclusivist. I have never used it or will ever. I believe there is still much truth to be mined from His Word. Quote
Robert Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 Hearing a SDA say "we have the truth" has always made me cringe. It sounds so elitist and exclusivist. I have never used it or will ever. I believe there is still much truth to be mined from His Word. TU Quote
wayfinder Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 Joh 17:17 "Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. John 18:37 Therefore Pilate said to Him, "So You are a king?" Jesus answered, "You say correctly that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice." John 15:26,27 "When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me, and you will testify also, because you have been with Me from the beginning. John 8:31,32 So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." The testimony of Jesus is the truth. Therefore He said "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. Mt 7:13,14 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. Quote
Robert Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 Mt 7:13,14 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. Right...there's no room of self-importance...in salvation by works....There's only one way....Christ and Him crucified. All other ground is sinking sand. Need a life saver? Rob Quote
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