We have 'the truth'

[wayfinder]

Mt 12:30 "He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters.

How much emphesis did the Son of God place on His death and how much on His kingdom?

Joh 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

Believing in the Son is to believe His testimony so it is possible to obey the Son.

[LifeHiscost]

First of all, when I read the Bible I do not read it as an Adventist, but how it is supposed to be taken.

[LifeHiscost]

Yes you are right, I mean Jesus is the truth. Why then do we say we have 'the truth'?

While it is true we don't know all the Truth, as we don't know Jesus perfectly, since He is my righteousness I can say without equivocation, I have the Truth.

"But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption..."1 Corinthians 1:30

Regards!

[Dr. Rich]

LifeHisCost wrote: "While it is true we don't know all the Truth, as we don't know Jesus perfectly, since He is my righteousness I can say without equivocation, I have the Truth."

Please tell me LifeHisCost, if you have the truth do you mean to say that there is no lie in your mouth as is found with the people in Revelation 14:5? And are you going to share all of this truth with the rest of us?

Can anyone tell me what the real test is for spiritual or religious truth? Please be truthful with this.

Blessings (SDA)

[Solja247]

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And you're assuming that all the effort for years, put forth to find the Truth that is promised to set them free, is to no avail?

The truth should be discovered not spoon fed.

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1. We do not know for sure if the bible, as we have it today, is the real truth. Many think so, but only by faith

How so?

[Dr. Rich]

Solja247 wrote: "The truth should be discovered not spoon fed."

Do you then agree that those who seek will someday find the truth? How about those who will be eating the food (truth) by the one person in Matthew 24:45? I would agree with you that these will not include anyone being forced fed.

AS for the bible being the truth--most would think so because of faith. However, it is my opinion that when the truth is presented by the 144,000 during the time of touble, that solid evidence will be shown to actually prove what is the truth within the bible to cause the multitude from every nation and race to make the right choice. This will also mean that some things written in the New Testaments will be shown to be false. This will bring unity to all of those who keep the commandments and the testimony (words) Jesus as found in Rev. 12:17.

[LifeHiscost]

LifeHisCost wrote: "While it is true we don't know all the Truth, as we don't know Jesus perfectly, since He is my righteousness I can say without equivocation, I have the Truth."

Please tell me LifeHisCost, if you have the truth do you mean to say that there is no lie in your mouth as is found with the people in Revelation 14:5? And are you going to share all of this truth with the rest of us?

Can anyone tell me what the real test is for spiritual or religious truth? Please be truthful with this.

Blessings (SDA)

"He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."1 John 5:11 KJV

"Jesus saith unto him, I am... the truth..."John 14:6 KJV

"Jesus saw..., and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!"John 1:47 KJV

"If we [freely] admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just (true to His own nature and promises) and will forgive our sins [dismiss our lawlessness] and [continuously] cleanse us from all unrighteousness [everything not in conformity to His will in purpose, thought, and action]."1 John 1:9 AMP

Based on Jesus' promises, re: Rev 14:5, the answer is yes. And

no man this side of the kingdom can reach that sublime state short of accepting the continuous cleansing of Jesus blood.

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

That is why the expression 'we have the truth' should be removed from our minds.

How about I have Jesus Who is the Truth?

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."

John 6:37 KJV

Regards!

[Dr. Rich]

LifeHiscost wrote: "How about I have Jesus Who is the Truth?"

What do you mean "I have Jesus"? Doesn't everyone who call themself a Christian say they have Jesus? We know that this can't be true since the weeds and weeds have looked the same ever since Jesus went to heaven. The words "truth" and "trooth" sound the same, but only those who investigate will know the difference.

So my question on the test for truth still stands. Can anyone out there give me the real (truthful) test for truth?

[LifeHiscost]

LifeHiscost wrote: "How about I have Jesus Who is the Truth?"

Doesn't everyone who call themself a Christian say they have Jesus? We know that this can't be true since the weeds and weeds have looked the same ever since Jesus went to heaven. The words "truth" and "trooth" sound the same, but only those who investigate will know the difference.

So my question on the test for truth still stands. Can anyone out there give me the real (truthful) test for truth?

[LifeHiscost]

LifeHisCost, you did just as I thought you would by responding with the words from Paul in Romans—which is highly suspect (and am I allowed to say a big fat lie!).

[Kevin H]

The test for truth is simple: Worshiping God according to the dictates of our conscious. A major tool for this for those of us who are people of the Book is to study the Bible, not making the Bible our servant to prove our ideas or to give teeth to how we want to manipulate others, but as honest students wanting to learn the hints, evidence and proofs we find in scripture. See what the linguists have discovered about what the words and word structures mean, see what the historians tell us about the context, how have the principles been applied to history. The goal is when we love the world as Jesus has loved it then his mission is accomplished, we are fitted for heaven for we have heaven in our hearts.

There are two enemies to truth: The dragon, Spiritualism, or the idea that there is no right or no wrong except for what is truth to you and your truth may be different from my truth. The final authority is you. This is what lead to the French Revolution. This is us following the dictates of our conscious, however it is worshiping ourselves, often our feelings and not worshiping God.

The second enemy to truth is the beast, someone else telling us just what to believe, what we saw in ancient Emperors demanding worship, in the papacy, in Fundamentalism with their strict application of their understanding of the Bible and trying to pass religious laws enforcing their understanding of how to worship God, as well as what we saw in Nazi Germany and Communist Russia. This is worshiping God according to the dictates of someone else's conscious. We can't wear somebody else's armor.

We need to hold together the two opposites of worshiping God, who is the source of all truth, and according to the dictates of our conscious, how we honestly understand the truth and apply the truth in our context.

[Musicman1228]

Kevin H.

You said, "The test for truth is simple: Worshiping God according to the dictates of our conscious."

Is our conscience up to the task of showing us how to worship God in truth? What about those in this world that have no conscience, no moral, ethical, or spiritual identity; would these qualify under the test you have outlined?

Should not the test be something definable and quantifiable, a standard against which we can measure ourselves to find out where we stand in relationship to God? If so what would that be?

Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told, “Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there, Rev.11:1.

[Dr. Rich]

Kevin, If there was nothing to be judged by then why would there by any judgment? If the standard is your conscience then there is also nothing to judge. I know where you got this understanding and it comes straight from the words of Paul. (Rom 10:4--among many others)

LifeHisCost, Jesus told the Jews that their father was Satan. Why? Didn't they think they were covered with some covenant--just as you and the rest of the Christians out there think they are covered by a so called "new covenant".

As for your comment about the prophecy about the wheat and the tares--this was NOT just a story. It was not even predicted because God does not predict--He knows what is going to happen and He told us this would happen.

After reading this prophecy-I want you or anyone for that matter to tell me if they know the difference between the wheat and the tares. Go on--try this--it is a test to find out how much you really understand.

[LifeHiscost]

Go on--try this--it is a test to find out how much you really understand.

This is all I need to understand, Doctor.

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3 KJV

"And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

"Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God."

1 Corinthians 4:5 NIV

Regards!

[Dr. Rich]

LifeHisCost wrote: "This is all I need to understand, Doctor….

Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God."

1 Corinthians 4:5 NIV”

Dr. Rich wrote: 1st John 4:1 “Beloved, do not believe every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they are from God..”

WOW! Is this a contradiction or what?

[Richard Holbrook]

Very well put dgrimm

[LifeHiscost]

Point is the Bible is highly interpretive. None us agree on everything. I like Pastor Sequeira, but even then I don't fully agree with him on everything. So we all view things differently.

It isn't the Bible that is highly interpretive but it is the people who twist it to their own preconceived ideas. Only those who dwell in the light of Jesus love can rightly understand the Truth when they hear it.

"If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?"

1 John 4:20 NKJV

"But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him."1 Corinthians 8:3 NKJV

"Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’"Matthew 7:22-24 NKJV

Regards!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Rev. 3:20 "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."

Quote:

1 John 5:12, 13.

"He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God."

Hallelujah!!!!

[monica]

I was talking to a friend about a non SDA and he told me: ¨I´d like him to know the whole truth.¨

Who can say they have the entire truth?

We know so little, but boast so much.

[LifeHiscost]

I was talking to a friend about a non SDA and he told me: ¨I´d like him to know the whole truth.¨

Who can say they have the entire truth?

We know so little, but boast so much.

As Old Sailor might say, wisdom is given to the wise. Would that more would be so wise.

[Richard Holbrook]

We know so little, but boast so much.

How can you say we know so little, when we have been blessed and entrusted with so much?

[Musicman1228]

LifeHiscost,

I honestly don't think most people who study the Bible, especially on this forum, are twisting things on purpose. You are correct in saying that most of us come to Scripture with preconceived ideas, which does get in the way of and accurate reading. This may be wrong but I don't see it as malicious.

For instance, I found an interesting fact in the Genesis account of creation (since we have been wrangling over that issue) that goes to how observant we are (or in this case how observant we are not) when we read Scripture with a bias; we have been told by any number of well meaning people that Eve was alone when she encountered the serpent at the Tree of the Learning of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. This apparently is not true. Amazingly, according to Scripture Adam was right there with her.

So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate. Gen.3:6.

Those four words, "who was with her" have been there the whole time, yet because someone that the church considers to have Scriptural authority says that Eve was alone that is the way we tend to read the text when we come to it. Because we have so much respect for this authority and because this is what we have been taught since grade school we just don't see the words that conflict with what that person said.

How many other situations like this occur that move us away from truth because we just are not observant in how well we read Scripture?

[Richard Holbrook]

What translation says: "who was with her"? not KJV not NKJV it says with her

[John317]

...we have been told by any number of well meaning people that Eve was alone when she encountered the serpent at the Tree of the Learning of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. This apparently is not true. Amazingly, according to Scripture Adam was right there with her.

So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate. Gen.3:6.

Those four words, "who was with her" have been there the whole time, yet because someone that the church considers to have Scriptural authority says that Eve was alone that is the way we tend to read the text when we come to it. Because we have so much respect for this authority and because this is what we have been taught since grade school we just don't see the words that conflict with what that person said.

There is plenty of good, biblical reason for believing what Ellen White has written on this topic. There are many other good Bible scholars and students who have taught the same as she did.

The words "who was with her" do not mean that Adam was with her at the time that Eve gave him the fruit. Of course he was with her when she handed him the fruit. That is a tautology. He could not possibly have been anywhere else, could he?

Therefore the words "who was with her" cannot mean that the writer is merely stating that Adam was near her when she gave him the fruit. It is saying that she gave the fruit to one whom God gave to her to be her companion in the garden.

Consider the implications if we say that Adam was close beside Eve the whole time that she talked with the serpent (i.e., the Devil):

1) It would mean Adam knew Eve was being tricked by Satan yet said absolutely nothing. 1 Tim. 2: 14.

2) This in turn would make it necessary for us to believe Adam watched Eve disobey God, knowing she was doing the very thing that God said would bring about her death. Yet Adam-- who loved her-- said nothing and did nothing to protect her.

3) It would mean that although Adam stood listening to the entire conversation, Satan spoke only to Eve, and did not address a single word to Adam. And Adam in turn did not address a single word to Satan. It makes it appear that during this time, Adam unaccountably yet completely lost all ability to speak.

4) In Gen. 3: 12, Adam does not blame Satan or the Serpent but he blames the woman. Yet if Adam had also been there to hear the Serpent, he could not have merely blamed the woman. He would have also blamed the Serpent.

5) In Gen. 3: 13, the woman blames the Serpent. But she should have blamed Adam if Adam knew what was happening and remained silent while Eve committed the sin that Adam had warned her against.

6) In Gen. 3: 17, God told Adam that he had listened not to the Serpent but to the woman, and that was why he ate of the fruit. It is safe to assume that God would not have said this if Adam ate of it because of listening to the Devil.

7) Why didn't God ask Adam to explain why He stood dumb and allowed His wife to eat of the fruit instead of doing something to stop her? That would be a reasonable question if this is what Adam had done. It seems obvious that the question was not asked because Adam had in fact not seen Eve eat of the fruit. She had eaten it while alone, then she walked over to him and gave him some of it. That makes much more sense than to believe # 1 to 3.