Obedience to God's Commandments the Fruit of Faith

[Richard Holbrook]

Originally Posted By: dgrimm60

HEY ROBERT

YES we all fall short but JESUS makes up the difference

That's heresy...a subtle form of legalism....In the judgment nothing is credited to you....You are either perfect "in Christ" or perfect in yourself. No partial credit.

Robert, are you always this condescending?

[Just*]

For by one offering he hath 1)perfected for ever them that are 2)sanctified. Heb 10:14

1)And ye are complete in him, Col 2:10

2)And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.1 Thessalonians 5:23

[Just*]

The statutes of the LORD [are] right Ps 19:8

I have seen an end of all perfection: [but] thy commandment [is] exceeding broad. Ps 119:96

And above all these things [put on] charity, which is the bond of perfectness. Col 3:14

therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law. Rom 13:10

for love is of God; 1 John 4:7

the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.Romans 5:5

[Robert]

What is the context?

You tell me....Open your Bible and mind....

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

That's heresy...a subtle form of legalism....In the judgment nothing is credited to you....You are either perfect "in Christ" or perfect in yourself. No partial credit.

Robert' date=' are you always this condescending? [/quote']With legalistic, self-righteousness? Yes....

[Robert]

Right "in Christ" we already stand perfect....

[Gerr]

Right "in Christ" we already stand perfect....

Even while in bed with someone not your spouse? Even while spending money not your own? Even while bowing down to idols?

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Does he continue to practice self-love (iniquity)?

You continue to dodge my question, but I'll answer yours.

Iniquitous self-love? NO! NO ONE who is truly "in Christ" will continue to willfully and deliberately practice iniquity. Will they continue to agapao self as the commandment assumes self-love when it says, "you shall love your neighbor as yourself."

Now let me ask you again: What does growing in grace mean? Meaner or kinder? More hateful or more loving? More taking or more giving? More rebellious or more obedient?

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: wayfinder

What is the context?

You tell me....Open your Bible and mind....

When Robert says that to me, he means that the Bible is not saying what I understand it to mean.

[Richard Holbrook]

HEY DGRIMM

YOU're right.

[olger]

Correct. The Bible is clear that the plan of Salvation provides forgiveness for the past and power for obedience.

"Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more." Both aspects.

Robert, if you plant your flag on one side or the other of these two aspects you create civil war in the soul.

rejoice always,

G

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Right "in Christ" we already stand perfect....

Even while in bed with someone not your spouse? Even while spending money not your own? Even while bowing down to idols?

Yes, even while you claim that self-love isn't sin and therefore proudly practice it....Sin is sin....Judge not, .....

[Robert]

HEY ROBERT

WHEN I said JESUS would make up the difference

what I mean is JESUS is covering HIS followers

with HIS rightiousness and giving HIS followers

access to the HOLY SPIRIT

dgrimm60

Okay

[Robert]

Will they continue to agapao self as the commandment assumes....

You know what? I'm tired of this lie you and other perpetuate. I guess if you say it enough you begin to believe it! Again, there's only ONE command: You shall agape your neighbor, how? As you love yourself. It doesn't say love your neighbor and love yourself because you were born loving yourself. That's a given.

David said, "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin [iniquity] did my mother conceive me." And Job said, "What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous? And Paul, referring to our humanity that Christ assumed at the incarnation, said: "God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law [its curse]...." He, Christ as man, was condemned not because He sinned, but because He took a humanity defiled in iniquity!

Unless you were born on Mars you came from a woman. It is through dear mom that you inherited Adam's bent towards self (iniquity). Let's read this:

1 Cor 11:8 For man [the human race] did not come from woman, but woman from man [Adam]; 9 neither was man created for woman, but woman for man....12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman.

What does this mean? It means that when God made the human race He made all humanity on one man, Adam. I can give you many verses to prove this (just ask). Even Eve was taken from Adam's side. Hence even Eve came from Adam.

When Adam sinned his agape love took a u-turn towards self and agape became self-love. No longer was Adam in the image and likeness of God's agape love. After the fall Adam had children through Eve. Hence the only thing Eve could produce was a life bent towards self.

We, as children of Adam, are copies of that humanity and hence we too are born loving self. Even the good things we do, in and of ourselves, are for our own self-centered reasons. We are, with out a doubt, born loving self.

So please do not take God's holy word and misconstrue it to make it sound like God it commanding us to love ourselves.

The reason folks twist this command is because if they admit self-love is sin this would mean that would they would have to confess that they are not commandment keepers in the true sense of the word. In other words it exposes their pretense to righteousness.

[Robert]

when God made the human race He made all humanity on one man, Adam. I can give you many verses to prove this (just ask).

Gen 5:1 This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man [mankind - plural], He made him in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind [Adam] in the day they were created. 3 And Adam [the individual] lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image [his fallen image], and named him Seth.

Seth's substance was "in Adam" when he fell. Hence the only thing he could pass on to his offspring was a life that had sinned and was enslaved to sin (iniquity). This is not teaching original sin because Seth wasn't guilty of Adam's original sin, which was turning his back on God. Adam chose Eve over God, Seth was born bent to self and hence the only thing he could do was live for himself. He was born seperated from God and eat up with himself.

Seth was born condemned, under law, because his bent to self totally dominated him because he was born without God's spirit and hence he was by nature (not only performance) a child of wrath (see Eph chapter 2).

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin [iniquity] entered into the world [the human race], and death [1st death] through sin, and so death spread to all men, [why?] because all sinned-- [where? In Adam]...18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men....

Very plain....

Acts 17:26 And He [God] has made from one man [Adam] every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth

[Dr. Shane]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Right "in Christ" we already stand perfect....

Even while spending money not your own?

Praise the Lord Jesus Christ He gave me the power to cut up my credit cards.

[Dr. Shane]

Let us praise Him who is the health of our countenance, rather than exalt the lesser powers of he who runs the world. "Greater is He who is in you.."

If we can do all things through Christ, and nothing without Him, I submit - there is hope beyond weak existentialism.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Will they continue to agapao self as the commandment assumes....

You know what? I'm tired of this lie you and other perpetuate.

The Bible says it in English as plain as any language could express it, that we are to love our neighbors as we love ourselves. You call that a lie? It is those who refuse to believe the truth that will be subject to a "strong delusion that they should believe a lie."

Quote:

I guess if you say it enough you begin to believe it! Again, there's only ONE command: You shall agape your neighbor, how? As you love yourself. It doesn't say love your neighbor and love yourself because you were born loving yourself. That's a given.

The commandment assumes a love for self. And it commands us to love others with that same love we have for ourselves. It does not say love others INSTEAD OF self. If you really believed what you are teaching, then why don't you give everything you have to your neighbors out of love? Even from the standpoint of even just a little "growth" in agape? Talk is cheap. You can talk the walk until you turn blue, but unless you walk the walk as they say, it's all hot air.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Even while spending money not your own?

Praise the Lord Jesus Christ He gave me the power to cut up my credit cards.

Hey, good for you, Shane.

And thank God. He has given me power to pay mine when the bill comes due.

[Richard Holbrook]

Praise God

[Woody]

Praise God II .

God has given me the ability to manage and prosper from credit cards.

[olger]

Victory good.

g

[Robert]

The commandment assumes a love for self. And it commands us to love others with that same love we have for ourselves. It does not say love others INSTEAD OF self.

It says to take that self-love and direct it towards your neighbor....If you are doing that there's no time for you....That's "instead"....

Further more, look at Christ's life. That's agape. At the incarnation Christ, as God, took upon Himself our life indwelt with the love of self. What did He do with our bent to self?

Answer: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me." To deny self is to live for others. Christ said He was the servant of all....Further more when someone offered to follow Him, Jesus said: "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head." And EGW states that there wasn't a trace of selfishness in His life. He didn't live for Himself...He lived and died for His enemies. Where's the self-love in that? I see self-denial....

[Robert]

The Bible says it in English as plain as any language could express it, that we are to love our neighbors as we love ourselves.

Again, it doesn't say love self...love neighbor....That would be two commands, but there's only one. And you call yourself a commandment keeper....What you are keeping is sin! Self-love is sin.....It's the opposite of self-denial.

"Self-love, self-interest, must perish. And the law of self-sacrifice is the law of self-preservation." [EGW]

Plain enough? You know what self-love does? It goes to college to make big bucks and then buys itself a nice home....Where's the love for the neighbor? Ah, there's no room because you are too busy loving yourself....You are too blind to see this!

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

The Bible says it in English as plain as any language could express it, that we are to love our neighbors as we love ourselves.

Again, it doesn't say love self...love neighbor....That would be two commands, but there's only one. And you call yourself a commandment keeper....What you are keeping is sin! Self-love is sin.....It's the opposite of self-denial.

"Self-love, self-interest, must perish. And the law of self-sacrifice is the law of self-preservation." [EGW]

Plain enough? You know what self-love does? It goes to college to make big bucks and then buys itself a nice home....Where's the love for the neighbor? Ah, there's no room because you are too busy loving yourself....You are too blind to see this!

Like I said before, if you REALLY believed that that is what God requires of believers, then give up all your possessions. Until you do that, all this harping about loving your neighbor INSTEAD of yourself is just a big baloney sandwich you are trying to feed others with. And if you are REALLY convinced that is what the commandment requires and you are not doing it, that IS WILLFUL disobedience, and according to PAUL who says: "For if we go on sinning deliberately AFTER receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries." Heb 10:26-27 ESV. So beware.

Here's what PAUL had to say quoting the OT: "You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain. Is it for oxen that God is concerned? Does he not speak entirely for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope and the thresher thresh in hope of sharing in thge crop. If we have sown spiritual things among you, is it too much if we reap material things from you?" 1 Cor 9:9-11 ESV.

No thought of self whatsoever?