Moderators Gerr Posted July 30, 2009 Moderators Posted July 30, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo You are still dodging the question!!!!!! When you grow in grace, what does it mean? Do you become meaner or kinder? A change proves your faith, not your righteousness. That is what I have been trying to tell you for several years, but you keep trying to make it legalism. The question remains - what is that change? Does the believer remain in rebellion? or become obedient? Quote: The law gives no credit.... You are right. But obeying the law out of love because to break them is to hurt God and to hurt another person is NOT legalism!!! You don't do things for those you love to earn their love! They already love you! Ditto God. Quote: Therefore to be under law is death. The paradox about freedom is: Obedience to law is freedom from the law. Breaking the law puts one under law. Think about it. Obedient people walk the streets freely. Lawbreakers go to jail. Quote
Richard Holbrook Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 If you have Christ you have salvation now.... In one sense yes, but I still have to die daily to sin. I still have to finish the race. I'm still here. Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. Matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Heb 12:1 ...and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 1 Cor 9:26,27 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified. Quote
Richard Holbrook Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 The paradox about freedom is: Obedience to law is freedom from the law. Breaking the law puts one under law. Think about it. Obedient people walk the streets freely. Lawbreakers go to jail. This is true. Excactly, AMEN! Quote
Richard Holbrook Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 That is what I have been trying to tell you for several years, You mean to tell me this has been going on for years? And here I was thinking two weeks was a long time. Quote
Robert Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert A change proves your faith, not your righteousness. That is what I have been trying to tell you for several years, but you keep trying to make it legalism. The question remains - what is that change? Does the believer remain in rebellion? or become obedient?[/quote'] There you go again....Obedience to what...the law? Tell me, is the law completely satisfied with YOUR performance? Are you living Christ's life? Quote: Breaking the law puts one under law. You're hopelessly encased in legalism & self-righteousness! Only a Pharisee would make such a statement. You are most certainly an enemy of the gospel. Quote
Robert Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert If you have Christ you have salvation now.... In one sense yes, but I still have to die daily to sin. I still have to finish the race. I'm still here. Quote
Robert Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo The paradox about freedom is: Obedience to law is freedom from the law. Breaking the law puts one under law. Think about it. Obedient people walk the streets freely. Lawbreakers go to jail. This is true. Excactly, AMEN! Pure heresy....You are taking human laws and comparing it to God's laws....No one is keeping the law as Christ did. Again, Paul: "For all have sinned [past tense] and fall short [present continuous tense] of the glory of God (His agape love)." According to your heretical teachings that would mean all of are lost....As Paul says of those who teach "another gospel", "let him be eternally condemned!" Quote
Richard Holbrook Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 So are you saying once saved always saved? Quote
Robert Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo That is what I have been trying to tell you for several years, You mean to tell me this has been going on for years? And here I was thinking two weeks was a long time. Yes and he is still trapped in a subtle form of legalism. All the years and still he is blind....He can't see just like EGW speaks of: We may have flattered ourselves, as did Nicodemus, that our life has been upright, that our moral character is correct, and think that we need not humble the heart before God, like the common sinner: but when [and the "when" hasn't happened with Gerry] the light from Christ shines into our souls [i.e., we understand His agape love], we shall see how impure we are; we shall discern the selfishness of motive, the enmity against God, that has defiled every act of life. [sC 28] Quote
Robert Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 So are you saying once saved always saved? I am saying, as does the Bible, that you are once saved always saved as long as your faith remains "in Christ"! Your conduct has nothing to do with your ticket to heaven, if it does then you must be "perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect". This, of course, doesn't deny a change in the life of believer, but those who make judges of themselves will be judged by the law. So judge not less you be judged. No one is measuring up...no one! If you wish to be saved by your performance then you must keep "the whole law"....You must live Christ's life and without fault.... Redwood, can I hear an amen? Rob Quote
Richard Holbrook Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 I agree that there is no conduct that can get you into heaven. But there is some conduct that can keep you out if you don't give it up. Quote
Richard Holbrook Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 Titus 2:11) For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12) Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13) Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14) Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. Quote
LifeHiscost Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 Ga 3:10For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM." A translation that reveals more understanding of intended meaning in that counsel, might be here. "And all who depend on the Law [who are seeking to be justified by obedience to the Law of rituals] are under a curse and doomed to disappointment and destruction, for it is written in the Scriptures, Cursed (accursed, devoted to destruction, doomed to eternal punishment) be everyone who does not continue to abide (live and remain) by all the precepts and commands written in the Book of the Law and to practice them." Galatians 3:10 AMP Brackets parenthesis theirs LHC If one is not depending on justification by keeping the law, then keeping the law only offers benefits. The curse comes when we depend on the law for justification. Could you tell me which commandment, that if it were ignored or we sought to do opposite, would place us in a better condition? "But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does."James 1:25 NKJV Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 the law can only condemn too because it accepts nothing short of Christ's life.... That's the greatest reason why we claim this promise as a believer. "...it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." Galatians 2:20 NKJV Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 I know, but we still have to choose everyday. I could wake up tommorrow and choose to turn my back on God just like Lucifer. I agree, as long as you're putting your confidence in your own ability to make the right choices, all the time, you will never find assurance of your eternal salvation. I have found assurance in God's promises by placing my choices in His care. "You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you." John 15:16 NKJV "For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."Romans 11:29 NKJV "For God's gifts and His call are irrevocable. [He never withdraws them when once they are given, and He does not change His mind about those to whom He gives His grace or to whom He sends His call.]"Romans 5:29 AMP Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo That is what I have been trying to tell you for several years, You mean to tell me this has been going on for years? And here I was thinking two weeks was a long time. Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 Quote: 1 Cor 9:26,27 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified. Disqualified to preach....This isn't talking about salvation And so Paul would be disqualified from preaching about preaching. Interesting. Or maybe you have some further biblical insight that gave you that conclusion? Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
olger Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 LC be soundin good. g Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
Richard Holbrook Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook 1 Cor 9:26,27 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, blest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified. Disqualified to preach....This isn't talking about salvation 1Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. In other words, after having preached to others I myself could be lost. Quote
olger Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 True. The word castaway means "worthless, reprobate, unapproved." In other words "Lost." g Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
Richard Holbrook Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook I know, but we still have to choose everyday. I could wake up tommorrow and choose to turn my back on God just like Lucifer. "For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."Romans 11:29 NKJV "For God's gifts and His call are irrevocable. [He never withdraws them when once they are given, and He does not change His mind about those to whom He gives His grace or to whom He sends His call.]"Romans 5:29 AMP Regards! The KJV, (which I believe is the most accurate for study) puts it this way: Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. .. Which is different from irrevocable. "Without repentance" is translated from the word "ametameletos" strong's # 278, 1) not repentant of, unregretted The other version you quoted (AMP) is paraphrased, which is disallowed for study purposes. For obvious reasons. Quote
Richard Holbrook Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 True. The word castaway means "worthless, reprobate, unapproved." In other words "Lost." g Excactly Quote
Richard Holbrook Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook You mean to tell me this has been going on for years? And here I was thinking two weeks was a long time. [/quote'] Quote
LifeHiscost Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 "For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."Romans 11:29 NKJV The KJV, (which I believe is the most accurate for study) puts it this way: Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. .. Which is different from irrevocable. "Without repentance" is translated from the word "ametameletos" strong's # 278, 1) not repentant of, unregretted The other version you quoted (AMP) is paraphrased, which is disallowed for study purposes. For obvious reasons. I'm assuming you caught the New King James Version as also in the original post, which is not a paraphrase. Although I have no reason for not giving the right to choose the less stable foundation, other than a desire to increase a person's personal faith in Jesus' willingness to place his/her faith upon the solid Rock. "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock." Matthew 7:24 NASB Blessings! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Richard Holbrook Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 LifeHiscost, yes I did see the NKJV quote. It is the same as the paraphrased. I like the NKJV and I use it, but when it comes to really studying out the true meaning of something I find the KJV to be more reliable. Ultimately it comes down to what the original Greek or Hebrew said before it was translated. In this case the word "ametameletos" means 1)not repentant of, unregretted which is not the same as irrevocable. Quote
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