olger Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 The story of the prodigal Son nails it. That a person can choose to be lost after being saved. G Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
Richard Holbrook Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 I know, I've done it before. I was just lucky to make it back. Thank God for his long suffering. I wouldn't want to test it like that again. Quote
Robert Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert Disqualified to preach....This isn't talking about salvation [/quote'] 1Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. In other words, after having preached to others I myself could be lost. What did Paul have to give up to become a Christian? His self-righteousness, for the righteousness of God. (see Phil chapter 3). So for Paul to go back under legalism, yes, he could be lost. So I guess you could look at it from the point of no longer being an Apostle and falling back into Judaism. Proof? Okay: Gal 2:11 But when Peter came to Antioch, I had to oppose him publicly, speaking strongly against what he was doing, for it was very wrong. 12 When he first arrived, he ate with the Gentile Christians, who don't bother with circumcision. But afterward, when some Jewish friends of James came, Peter wouldn't eat with the Gentiles anymore because he was afraid of what these legalists would say. 13 Then the other Jewish Christians followed Peter's hypocrisy, and even Barnabas was influenced to join them in their hypocrisy. 14 When I saw that they were not following the truth of the Good News, I said to Peter in front of all the others, "Since you, a Jew by birth, have discarded the Jewish laws and are living like a Gentile, why are you trying to make these Gentiles obey the Jewish laws you abandoned? 15 You and I are Jews by birth, not 'sinners' like the Gentiles. 16 And yet we Jewish Christians know that we become right with God, not by doing what the law commands, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be accepted by God because of our faith in Christ – and not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be saved by obeying the law." F8 17 But what if we seek to be made right with God through faith in Christ and then find out that we are still sinners? Has Christ led us into sin? Of course not! 18 Rather, I make myself guilty if I rebuild the old system I already tore down. 19 For when I tried to keep the law, I realized I could never earn God's approval. So I died to the law so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ. 20 I myself no longer live, but Christ lives in me. So I live my life in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I am not one of those who treats the grace of God as meaningless. For if we could be saved by keeping the law, then there was no need for Christ to die. Quote
Richard Holbrook Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 Thanks for enlarging the print for me. What translation is that? Quote
Robert Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 The story of the prodigal Son nails it. That a person can choose to be lost after being saved.G He was never lost....You see if, as a believer, you apostatize, your lost for good....No coming back. See Hebrews chapter 6. Quote
Robert Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 Thanks for enlarging the print for me. What translation is that? New Living Translation It's not always the best, but here in Gal chapter 2 they did an excellent job. Quote
olger Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 I know, I've done it before. I was just lucky to make it back. Thank God for his long suffering. I wouldn't want to test it like that again. Praise God for His Government, and welcome back bro. G Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
Robert Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 You can come back, I did. No, if you truly apostatize there's no coming back: Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. Quote
Richard Holbrook Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 I'm aware of that text and knew you would use it. Are you saying I didn't really apostize? Quote
Richard Holbrook Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 If there was no hope for me, I wouldn't have any interest in spiritual things, because the Holy Spirit would be gone. Quote
Robert Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. Did you get that? "It's impossible" to restore a believer back to repentance if he/she apostatizes. What is apostasy? It's doing away with Christ...It's nailing Him to a tree premeditatedly! How does one do this? By hardening one's heart...by turning away from your salvation "in Christ". Think about it....Who pushed hard to have Christ murdered? Right, the self-righteous! When a person thinks he or she is all that...or that they are good decent people...he or she doesn't need Christ because they have become their own savior....This is the spirit of anti-Christ....It is a hardening of the heart that leads to apostasy. That's why Paul in his warning to the Judaizers said: "You who are trying to be justified by law [by your righteousness] have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace [you've apostatized]." Quote
Richard Holbrook Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 I'm aware of that text and knew you would use it. Are you saying I didn't really apostize? If there was no hope for me, I wouldn't have any interest in spiritual things, because the Holy Spirit would be gone. Quote
Robert Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 I'm aware of that text and knew you would use it. Are you saying I didn't really apostize? Yes...you were living for the flesh, but you weren't lost....Just like King David was given over to the flesh, but he was never lost. That's why, when he repented, he said - "Do not take your spirit from me." You see if the Spirit of God vacates you (and He only does this when a person persistently and ultimately renounces his/her salvation in Christ) you can't repent because you have no conscience. You are given fully over the flesh and the flesh is anti-god. The flesh wants to take Christ off His throne and take it over....It wants to be # 1.... Quote
Richard Holbrook Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 Okay, I agree with that. What you're talking about is the unpardoable sin, which I did not do. Quote
Robert Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 Okay, I agree with that. What you're talking about is the unpardoable sin, which I did not do. TU Quote
olger Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 2) Prodigal son. The analogy of a son always being a son is genetically true. We see the beauty of God’s love in the account of The Prodigal Son (Luke 15). Yet what about the inheritance? Here, I would like to insert a calculated warning. We must not assume that God’s unconditional love is equal to unconditional salvation. For the father of the Prodigal makes this statement in verse 24 “This my son was dead, and he is alive again. He was lost, and is found.” ● “dead” The greek word for dead (nekros) in this story means corpse and there are numerous references to Jesus being called (resurrected) from the dead (nekros). It doesn’t necessarily mean lost. But there are two other words that are used in this passage that are very significant. ● “alive again” The term alive again (anazao anazao). This means to be revived or to recover life. On the basis of the son’s repentance & return home, he was anazao anazao. Alive again. His choices resulted in death, his repentance resulted in being returned to life. Note well the word “again.” An even more powerful term is used in parallel to close the statement. Says the Father “he was lost and is found.” ● “lost” The greek word for lost here (apollumi) means to be eternally lost. Damned. It is the word used for the judgment that befell Sodom & Gomorrah, it is the word used for Judas who betrayed Jesus, and it is the word used by Jesus in His warning “fear not them which kill the body, … … but rather fear him which is able to destroy (apollumi) both soul and body in hell.” So, what about the inheritance? We notice from Scripture that the true sons of God are those who overcome (Revelation 21:7). They alone have an inheritance (v. 7). In Scripture we are told that they who choose drunkenness and revelings (rioting) shall not inherit the kingdom of God (Galatians 5:21). Finally, in 1 Corinthians 6, we read that fornicators and drunkards shall not inherit the kingdom of God. On the strength of this trio of witnesses I can say that the son was lost by his own choice and on his way to eternal destruction. This parable was given by Christ to represent the manner in which our heavenly Father receives the erring and repenting. He knows that the son who has pursued a course of sin and now repents needs his pity and his love. This son has suffered; he has felt his need, and he comes to his father as the only one who can supply this great need. “This my son was dead, and is alive again.” Unconditional love is not unconditional salvation (or inheritance). The inheritance is reserved for those who by faith overcome the flesh (Gal. 5:21; Revelation 21:7; Romans 12:21; 2 Peter 2:20; 1 John 4:4; Romans 9:8; 2 Cor. 7:1; Roman 8:13). God will not chain rebels to his side. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
Robert Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 “This my son was dead, and he is alive again. He was lost, and is found.” He was backsliden, not lost as in "no heaven".... Quote
Robert Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 The error that you are teaching is termed "yo-yo salvation"....You are in & you are out....Up and down, etc. Plainly stated it's baloney! Quote
olger Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 Bobbert, “lost” The greek word for lost here (apollumi) means to be eternally lost. Damned. It is the word used for the judgment that befell Sodom & Gomorrah, it is the word used for Judas who betrayed Jesus, and it is the word used by Jesus in His warning “fear not them which kill the body, … … but rather fear him which is able to destroy (apollumi) both soul and body in hell.” Which part did you fail to understand? Bobbert bombastic. Son repentant. rejoice always, the G Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
wayfinder Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 It is highly doubtful Jesus ever told this parable, it does not appear in any other gospel. Quote
olger Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 The guy who denigrates Paul's writings now waves his sword at Jesus' parables? the G Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.