The Truth about EVERYTHING

[True-believer]

The Truth about EVERYTHING

Many of you know that a while ago I was involved in the Seventh-day Adventist Church down at Queenstown SA, and I am going to be upfront and honest to you all about my experiences while I was there in this email, while remembering that I have not been there now for almost three months.

The reasons why I left the SDA Church was NOT because of doctrinal error or misunderstandings of The Holy Scriptures, but instead it was because I got caught up in disputes about legalistic matters—for example, Christmas and Easter both being of Pagan backgrounds should or shouldn’t be for Christians nowadays??? A number of people in the Pilipino group in the Church were all against Christmas and Easter—while I was trying to tell them the Spiritual insight to both of those Holy Days, Christmas being the Birth of Jesus Christ and Easter being the Death and Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus Christ. And it is because of this conflict with a certain group of people within the SDA Church is why I left the SDA Church.

I am making this OPEN not CLOSED, I want to let you all know, it has NOTHING to do with Doctrine or the Sabbath or the State of the Dead or the Investigative Judgment, and I am alright with those beliefs because I have studied them for myself with the help from The Holy Spirit.

The ONLY reason why I left the SDA Church is because of the dispute I have mentioned above.

I am now going to go into detail with a particular belief that you might of heard too much from me, but I am sorry but this has to come out---why, because the Truth Will Set You FREE…

The topic is the “Sabbath”, so why am I bringing up this topic? Because most people do NOT know the TRUTH about this subject, and also note that I am NOT trying to argue or debate Scripture with anyone, but what I am about to mention is what I have both observed and took in and studied in the past three months of me NOT being in the SDA Church but within the mainline Protestant Churches.

I really do believe that Sunday will be A National Day of Rest very soon—to distract people away from the true rest day which should be the seventh-day Saturday being called The Sabbath of The Lord Thy God.

The only commandment with the word “Remember” is the only commandment that the Protestant Churches very willingly wants to forget.

I know this will sound very strange coming from a person like myself who is born and bred Pentecostal through and through, and I even been to two different kinds of Protestant Bible Colleges—one being Baptist and the other AOG Pentecostal.

I understand that the REGULATIONS of everything to do with The Sabbath are nailed to the CROSS of Jesus Christ.

I understand that we are now FREE in Jesus Christ and that if we LOVE Him---we would KEEP His Commandments.

Revelations 12:11 says we overcame the evil one by the Blood of the Lamb and by the word of the testimony about Jesus Christ and they did not love their lives to unto the death.

Revelation 12:17 says that Satan the dragon was enraged with the woman—the Christian Church and went to make war with the Remnant of her seed, all those people that keep the commandments of God and also have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 says that here is the patience of the Saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and also the faith of Jesus Christ.

This is all that I have to say for the time being, I know that I have said heaps, but it has to come out instead of being boiled inside me all this time.

So in other words—in short—I would still be in the SDA Church if it wasn’t for that dispute I mentioned above.

Signing off in Jesus Name,

Luke A Goss.

[oldsailor29]

Luke - I think a dispute over the celebration of Christmas and Easter is a matter of little importance.

You can say it is nailed to the cross if you like, but I like to think of Sabbath-keeping as modified by Jesus. Jesus said a lot about Sabbath-keeping. So to me, the commandment is still there, but the interpretation has been modified by Jesus.

[phkrause]

I think you have that all wrong, true-believer, about the Sabbath being nailed to the cross. Its all the other regulations and sabbaths that were celebrated with all the festivals that the Jews had. Those were all done away with. The Ten Commandments are still written in our hearts. Don't also forget that Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments. And also in Revelation its said there that at the end, the Remnant will have the faith of Jesus and will be keeping the 10 Commandments. So why would the Sabbath be done away with, if at the end time it will be what separates us from those that have the mark of the beast. Again I emphasize to read the Great Controversy.

pk

[Nan]

Luke, you speak of " the REGULATIONS of everything to do with The Sabbath are nailed to the CROSS of Jesus Christ."

Remember that in Jesus time, there were many regulations about keeping the Sabbath that had been brought in by the Jewish theologians, not by God. Some Orthodox Jews still live by those

regulations. These rules made the Sabbath a real burden, and

it was against these that Jesus spoke.

I do not think the basic rules of Sabbath observance, which are essentially remembering our Creator and Re-Creator, and setting aside

our own concerns for that day, have been eliminated.

[Musicman1228]

With respect to Luke, for those on this forum:

Those of you believe that what is said in Colosians 2 about the Commandments being nailed to the cross are now seeing the result coming full circle in Luke. Here is a person that was attending an SDA church in South Africa but left because of confusion caused by a disconnect in theology between one part of the Bible and another. If it is true (and it must be because Paul said it) then the 10 Commandments no longer apply in our lives, that all we need do is rely on the grace of Christ to save us in spite of our sins.

On the other hand it is clear to me that Luke understands the significant differences between SDA's and other Christian denominations (he has lived those differences) and is confused about what to do about these differences.

Luke said, "I understand that we are now FREE in Jesus Christ and that if we LOVE Him---we would KEEP His Commandments."

Why keep the Commandments of God if they have been nailed to the cross?

My Dear brother Luke,

Jesus did not say that we are SET FREE right now, but that we would be set free when we learn the truth. Therefore it is very important to learn where to find the truth. A good place to start looking is in the SDA church, which is the Kingdom of Heaven on earth today. Please don't turn your back on us because of misunderstanding and confusion over theology and especially doctrine.

If you will go back and study the life and teachings of Jesus Christ especially in the gospels of Matthew and John (who were direct eyewitnesses to Jesus) you will find all the answers you seek in order to become a true follower of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ IS the Son of God, and through the power of the Holy Spirit you have been promised that you would be lead into ALL truth. Don't be discouraged my brother, God is with you. I know you will find the truth, because that is God's promise. And when you do you will be set free, because whoever the Son sets free they are free indeed.

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments [abide in My word]. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you." John 14:15-17.

So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, “If you abide in my word [keep My Commandments], you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” John 8:31.

I will pray that you find Jesus Christ, who is The Way, The Truth, and The Life.

[True-believer]

With respect to Luke, for those on this forum:

Those of you believe that what is said in Colosians 2 about the Commandments being nailed to the cross are now seeing the result coming full circle in Luke. Here is a person that was attending an SDA church in South Africa but left because of confusion caused by a disconnect in theology between one part of the Bible and another. If it is true (and it must be because Paul said it) then the 10 Commandments no longer apply in our lives, that all we need do is rely on the grace of Christ to save us in spite of our sins.

On the other hand it is clear to me that Luke understands the significant differences between SDA's and other Christian denominations (he has lived those differences) and is confused about what to do about these differences.

Luke said, "I understand that we are now FREE in Jesus Christ and that if we LOVE Him---we would KEEP His Commandments."

Why keep the Commandments of God if they have been nailed to the cross?

My Dear brother Luke,

Jesus did not say that we are SET FREE right now, but that we would be set free when we learn the truth. Therefore it is very important to learn where to find the truth. A good place to start looking is in the SDA church, which is the Kingdom of Heaven on earth today. Please don't turn your back on us because of misunderstanding and confusion over theology and especially doctrine.

If you will go back and study the life and teachings of Jesus Christ especially in the gospels of Matthew and John (who were direct eyewitnesses to Jesus) you will find all the answers you seek in order to become a true follower of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ IS the Son of God, and through the power of the Holy Spirit you have been promised that you would be lead into ALL truth. Don't be discouraged my brother, God is with you. I know you will find the truth, because that is God's promise. And when you do you will be set free, because whoever the Son sets free they are free indeed.

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments [abide in My word]. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you." John 14:15-17.

So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, “If you abide in my word [keep My Commandments], you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” John 8:31.

I will pray that you find Jesus Christ, who is The Way, The Truth, and The Life.

Firstly musicman, I am from South Australia---and NOT south africa like you stated above.

Also you don't need to pray that I find Jesus Christ, because I have already found Him.

Thankyou my brother for the words you did put down, I am not discouraged but I am encourage.

Yes you are right, I have lived those differences, and I do know the differnce between the SDA's and all the other Christian denominations, I have been there and studied it all.

But I am NOT confused, why? Because I know what I believe.

[BobRyan]

I understand that the REGULATIONS of everything to do with The Sabbath are nailed to the CROSS of Jesus Christ.

[olger]

This is a good discussion.

[Musicman1228]

Sorry for the misunderstanding as to where you come from. I am delighted that you KNOW in whom you believe. I would that more people who claim Christianity would be as certain as you.

[True-believer]

Sorry for the misunderstanding as to where you come from. I am delighted that you KNOW in whom you believe. I would that more people who claim Christianity would be as certain as you.

Apology accepted Musicman, but theres no need to say sorry.

I am from Australia, the best country in the world, I am sure everyone here would agree with me that Australia is The Best Country Ever in This World.

I am glad you are delighted Musicman that I know in whom I believe, my faith is in Jesus Christ, and I wholly put my trust in Him alone.

I wish more people were like that to Musicman.

[True-believer]

This is a good discussion.

Olger--This is a fantastic discussion, and wow, it has lifted up my hopes a whole lot more.

Tonight I am going to prayer meeting in the sda Church, I have finally got enough courage to go back.

Please pray for me.

[True-believer]

Luke - I think a dispute over the celebration of Christmas and Easter is a matter of little importance.

You can say it is nailed to the cross if you like, but I like to think of Sabbath-keeping as modified by Jesus. Jesus said a lot about Sabbath-keeping. So to me, the commandment is still there, but the interpretation has been modified by Jesus.

I didn't say THE SABBATH was nailed to The Cross, I said the regulations of the sabbath was nailed to the cross, in other words I mean...

All the LAW that made us SIN and the bits that were against us--they have been nailed to The Cross.

The Sabbath is NOT against us, but only the Old Testament regulations that were against us.

I love it when the Sabbath comes around each weekend, a time to rest and recuperate.

A time to spend with God, His people, and family and a chance to witness and maybe do a bit of street preaching and hand out tracts.

I just love being a follower of Jesus Christ my Lord and my Best Friend--He is my Savior.

[oldsailor29]

Originally Posted By: oldsailor29

You can say it is nailed to the cross if you like, but I like to think of Sabbath-keeping as modified by Jesus. Jesus said a lot about Sabbath-keeping. So to me, the commandment is still there, but the interpretation has been modified by Jesus.

I didn't say THE SABBATH was nailed to The Cross, I said the regulations of the sabbath was nailed to the cross, in other words I mean...

All the LAW that made us SIN and the bits that were against us--they have been nailed to The Cross.

The Sabbath is NOT against us, but only the Old Testament regulations that were against us.

I love it when the Sabbath comes around each weekend, a time to rest and recuperate.

A time to spend with God, His people, and family and a chance to witness and maybe do a bit of street preaching and hand out tracts.

I just love being a follower of Jesus Christ my Lord and my Best Friend--He is my Savior.

I think we are almost in total agreement on the sabbath issue. The things you are saying are nailed to the cross are the misinterpretations which I say were set straight by Jesus. The result is the same. We both still have the Sabbath, but without the burdensome restrictions like those imposed by the pharisees and other religious leaders. We have to be careful that we don't burden ourselves with Sabbath restrictions like they did.

However, street preaching and handing out tracts is another matter. The Lord can use any of our activity for spreading the gospel, but the most efficient gospel spreading activity we can do is that which the Lord gives us to do. We all function as part of a whole body. We cannot all be eyes, and we cannot all be hands, and we cannot all be feet. We should all be that part of the body and do that which the Lord has given us to do. Sabbath is for relaxing and resting from that which we do, not for doing some other work.

If the Lord opens the door for us to be preachers, then we should be preachers. If He opens the door for us to be literature evangelists, then we should do that. But too many people do not wait for the Lord to lead them into different activities.

However, if you want to preach and pass out literature on Sabbath, I'm sure you will be blessed for doing so. I'm just saying that even though the L.E.s and preachers seem to think everyone should be L.E.s and preachers, there is a lot of work in the Lord's vineyard which is every bit as important to God as sowing seeds and harvesting the fruit. You have dedicated your life to God. You are His servant doing that which the Lord has given you to do, and whatever it is, from which you rest on Sabbath, is your part in working in the Lord's vineyard. You are that part of the body which functions for spreading the gospel, and whatever that is, is just as important as preaching and handing out literature.

[BobRyan]

The Sabbath is NOT against us, but only the Old Testament regulations that were against us.

There is no "OT regulation" against us. God is the author of every good and perfect gift -- therefore Paul says that the Law of God is "Holy Just and good".

What there is is " a certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us" -- the "ticket" (the individual record of sin and the specific debt owed) that declares that we violated God's Law and then specifies what each person owes. There are record books in heaven - containing a record of our debt -- that debt is paid by Christ on the cross.

God did not send His Son to nail his Word to the Cross. He did not send His son to nail His Law to the Cross. He sent his son to pay for our debt in our place. As a substitutionary atoning sacrifice.

in Christ,

Bob

[phkrause]

Not everyone True-believer...... hahahahaha hehehehehe hohohohoho

pk

[Richard Holbrook]

God did not send His Son to nail his Word to the Cross. He did not send His son to nail His Law to the Cross. He sent his son to pay for our debt in our place. As a substitutionary atoning sacrifice.

in Christ,

Bob

Amen brother Bob

[Dr. Rich]

Bob wrote: "God did not send His Son to nail his Word to the Cross. He did not send His son to nail His Law to the Cross. He sent his son to pay for our debt in our place. As a substitutionary atoning sacrifice."

Really now Bob? And just where do you find that God said this?

Let's hear what Jesus said Himself: John 18:37:..."You say correctly that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this have come into the world, to bear witness (testify) to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice."

John 17:19-20 "And for their [disciples] sakes I sanctify myself, that they themselves also MAY be sanctified in TRUTH. I do not ask in behalf of these alone, but for those (Kingdom of Heaven) also who believe in Me [in my words] through THEIR words."

John 3:16 "For God (The Father) so loved the world (people all over the world-not just the Jews) that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes (in His words) should not perish, but have eternal life."

Hmmm? I don't see anywhere here that God said anything about sending His Son to "pay for our debt in our place." Neither do I see that it was Jesus mission to take on anyone's sin--since Jesus said He sanctifiied Himself. One can't have any sin once they have become sanctified!---Right?

[Richard Holbrook]

Dr. Rich, left field is your playground. If Jesus didn't die for you then you're still under a death sentence and you will need to die for your sins.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Jhn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

[Dr. Rich]

RH wrote: "Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Jhn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Thanks RH, you just made my point--all of the verses above are not the words of Jesus.

I may be in left field, but I am also on the narrow road--the one that does not have many people on it.

[Richard Holbrook]

So now you're going to throw out John too?

[Dr. Rich]

WHAT? Come on now--John wrote just what John the B. said--right? But IF you really understood what John the B was preaching and teaching it was the life road (Dan. 9:24) that was still in affect. This is why even the disciples were confused at what Jesus when Jesus told them what really was going to happen. When Jesus didn't come to set John the B free, even John the B was confused.

Did the prophecy that John the B give ever come true? If you answered yes, then you too are confused.

And by the way, John the B never said anything about Jesus dying to take away any sin. He was preaching that Jesus was going to be the King of the Jews and by doing this He was going to comply with the prophecy in Dan. 9:24--thereby getting rid of sin. You should know by now that this never happened. DAH!

[Richard Holbrook]

Why did he need to die then?

[Dr. Rich]

If all He needed was to die, then He could have done that during His ministry or even before. Jesus' death was actually a prophecy and He was the Passover Lamb. The Passover Lamb made it possible for the first born male to keep living (if they obeyed what God said to do with the blood first)

Jesus' death was not the Atonement. This comes at the end of the world when the sins pf those who overcome sin are placed upon Satan--NOT upon Jesus.

Jesus' death was for the 'first born' or Adam's penalty for Adam's sin of not obeying what God said. In Rev. 1:1-3 we see the words "Bondservants" This is a word that means people who have accepted the bond (the penalty of death for sin by Jesus) and are now doing what He commands them to do. They later will be set free when they become sanctified and born again by the same mother as Jesus--the Holy Spirit and therefore become family members. That is why they are given a new name.

[True-believer]

WHAT? Come on now--John wrote just what John the B. said--right? But IF you really understood what John the B was preaching and teaching it was the life road (Dan. 9:24) that was still in affect. This is why even the disciples were confused at what Jesus when Jesus told them what really was going to happen. When Jesus didn't come to set John the B free, even John the B was confused.

Did the prophecy that John the B give ever come true? If you answered yes, then you too are confused.

And by the way, John the B never said anything about Jesus dying to take away any sin. He was preaching that Jesus was going to be the King of the Jews and by doing this He was going to comply with the prophecy in Dan. 9:24--thereby getting rid of sin. You should know by now that this never happened. DAH!

Your views Dr Rich are way too narrow-minded and very legalistic.

You cannot just knock off John and Paul and other Prophets within the Bible.

I don't take much notice of your posts Dr Rich---they are not making sense--its all screwed up.

[Richard Holbrook]

Jhn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Had there been no sin, man would never have known death. But in the innocent offering slain by his own hand he beheld the fruits of sin--the death of the Son of God in his behalf. He sees the immutable character of the law he has transgressed, and confesses his sin; he relies upon the merits of the Lamb of God. . . . {TMK 17.2}

You are to find your completeness by beholding the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. {ST, July 4, 1892 par. 9}