The Truth about EVERYTHING

[John317]

WHAT? Come on now--John wrote just what John the B. said--right? But IF you really understood what John the B was preaching and teaching it was the life road (Dan. 9:24) that was still in affect. This is why even the disciples were confused at what Jesus when Jesus told them what really was going to happen. When Jesus didn't come to set John the B free, even John the B was confused.

Did the prophecy that John the B give ever come true? If you answered yes, then you too are confused.

And by the way, John the B never said anything about Jesus dying to take away any sin. He was preaching that Jesus was going to be the King of the Jews and by doing this He was going to comply with the prophecy in Dan. 9:24--thereby getting rid of sin. You should know by now that this never happened. DAH!

Check out the prophecy in Isaiah 53 regarding the Messiah--

1 Who has believed our report?

...... 4 Surely He has borne our griefs

And carried our sorrows;

Yet we esteemed Him stricken,

Smitten by God, and afflicted.

5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,

He was bruised for our iniquities;

The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,

And by His stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray;

We have turned, every one, to his own way;

And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted,

Yet He opened not His mouth;

He was led as a lamb to the slaughter,

And as a sheep before its shearers is silent,

So He opened not His mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment,

And who will declare His generation?

For He was cut off from the land of the living;

For the transgressions of My people He was stricken.

9 And they[a] made His grave with the wicked—

But with the rich at His death,

Because He had done no violence,

Nor was any deceit in His mouth.

10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him;

He has put Him to grief.

When You make His soul an offering for sin,

He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days,

And the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand.

11 He shall see the labor of His soul,and be satisfied.

By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many,

For He shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great,

And He shall divide the spoil with the strong,

Because He poured out His soul unto death,

And He was numbered with the transgressors,

And He bore the sin of many,

And made intercession for the transgressors.

[True-believer]

Great stuff John316.

[Richard Holbrook]

Dr. Rich,

Since you have not yet thrown out the prophet Isaiah, what will you say to this? Isa 53 proves the point I was trying to make. After you read it, share it with Musicman and wayfinder. Then read it again.

Thanks John for knowing where to look

[Dr. Rich]

John317, Isa. 53 is a great prophecy but again it was a prophecy concerning the life road in reference to Dan. 9:24. To prove my point, please read again this verse: "For the transgressions of MY PEOPLE He was stricken." You will see that this is not for the whole world. No, this never did happen, but it would have if they would have accepted Jesus as their King.

You guys are just swimming at the surface--read the whole song (yes it is a song) and you will see it is a continuation from Isa. 52. Verse 10 tells us that if He will render's Himself as a guilt offering He will get to see His offspring. Come on now--Jesus did NOT have and children!

Most bible teacher are clueless as to what Isiah's prophecies are all about. Take Is. 65:17-25 for instance--they teach that this is a picture of heaven and songs have even been writting about this being heaven. Well, this can't be because people still die in this picture. This again was a conditional prophecy for Israel IF they would have done what they were suppose to do as stated in Dan. 9:24.

Last night it became apparent to me that attempting to teach people what we have been learning in the last 16 years and is not going to be an easy job for you have no idea what happened in our 2 to 3 weekly studies. Therefore, I will have to slowdown a little so you guys can catch up. I will tell you that when you see the whole picture--not just bits and pieces like you have seen, then you should be able to understand. Enjoy!

I know that this is very confusing and someday we will probably have a book out on the real truth to help cure this confusion.

[phkrause]

As long as it doesn't agree with what I want to accept I don't need to believe it.

pk

[BobRyan]

If all He needed was to die, then He could have done that during His ministry or even before. Jesus' death was actually a prophecy and He was the Passover Lamb. The Passover Lamb made it possible for the first born male to keep living (if they obeyed what God said to do with the blood first)

Jesus' death was not the Atonement. This comes at the end of the world when the sins pf those who overcome sin are placed upon Satan--NOT upon Jesus.

Well coming from a guy that sliced up his bible and tossed out Paul -- I guess one has to expect something off-the-wall like the above.

At least Rich is consistent!

It reminds me of Ellen White's statements on apostasy and how once a wrong turn is taken - they begin to present darkness for light -- and light as darkness because they no longer actually know the difference.

How sad.

in Christ,

Bob

[Dr. Rich]

I want to make one thing clear--I am still a student. I will accept new truth from anyone if they can provide the evidence for their truth from the words of Jesus. The more I have learned, the more I realize that I don't understand.

As for agreeing with what I now believe, IF it is 180 degrees from what I now believe, but the evidence proves it to be true, then I am willing to change! It is my understanding now, that people who are not willing to look at everything honestly, are the ones that are now sleeping.

[BobRyan]

Bob wrote: "God did not send His Son to nail his Word to the Cross. He did not send His son to nail His Law to the Cross. He sent his son to pay for our debt in our place. As a substitutionary atoning sacrifice."

Really now Bob? And just where do you find that God said this?

?

Sorry about that Rich -- as it turns out my Bible includes Colossians chapter 2, Isaiah 53, 1John 2, 2Cor 5... possibly you can still remember them from the old days.

in Christ,

Bob

[Parade Orange]

im not new to the idea of just trusting JESUS WORDS(its all JESUS WORDS but anyhoo) and throwing out Paula and whoever.

Alot of gay christians i know just go by JESUS words and Jesus didnt condem homosexualty and in fact mentions Sodom as rising up in JUDGEMENT over ISRAEL.

The Sailorguy here has also expressed Just JESUS WORDS only !

I belive the BIBLE says alot more on any particular subject but it takes digging with a trusting/obediant heart and laying aside cherished ideas.

JESUS WORDS(the red letters) are also deep and with some digging and having a TRUSTING OBEDIANT heart you can probly establish all 28 SDA foundations. But its not on the surface. you dig!

[Dr. Rich]

Ex. 3 confirms that the God of Israel was Jesus/Michael--(the prince of Israel/Kingdom of God--the one who wrote the Ten Commandments (the Great "I AM")

Jesus' words let us know that the OT is to be trusted, but Jesus also made it known that the interpretation may be incorrect--as He told the Jews.

God pointed out the relationship between God Almighty (the Father, the Holy Spirit (the Mother) and Jesus/Michael (the Son) by giving us Adam and Eve. Eve was IN Adam when Adam was made and therefore the Holy Spirit is also in God the Father.

Here is the thing: ANY deviation in the family relationship came from Satan who wanted to destroy the understanding of God’s relationship in the Trinity. It is no wonder then, why Sodom was destroyed. God said that Israel/Jews were just as bad as Sodom and we can read all about this in Jer. and Hos.

I too know people who are “queer” (yes, that is exactly what deviated sex is) but doing it and not doing it are two different things.

I hope this helps.

Blessings, (SDA)

[Musicman1228]

The red letters in the New Testament are supposed to be the words of Jesus Christ, but these words in red are made that way "by an editor" not by Jesus Christ and not by the actual writer. There are words in the New Testament that have the 'authority' of the words of Jesus because they are in red AND THERE IS NO PROOF THAT JESUS ACTUALLY SAID THEM. This is editorial power beyond my imagining.

One example is found in 2Cor.12:9 where Paul quotes Jesus as saying, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” This quote is in red letters in Bibles that contain red lettering. The problem AS I SEE IT (only my opinion) is that this quote is not substantiated or corroborated by anyone other than Paul himself (one witness). It is not confirmed as a quotation of Jesus Christ by Matthew, Mark or John in their gospels (or Luke for that matter) and there is no record of ANYONE ELSE hearing these words as spoken to Paul (two witnesses).

There is no record in any of the gospels where Jesus said anything even remotely similar to that as a theology. The ONLY way that one can believe that this quote was actually made by Jesus Christ the Son of God as based on this lack of evidence is by assuming it is so using 'blind faith'.

I for one do not have the courage to put words in the mouth of God (blaspheme?) by using an assumption based on the unconfirmed testimony of one person, no matter the status of that person in the Lord. (Ellen White had witnesses to some of her visions.)

[Richard Holbrook]

The problem AS I SEE IT (only my opinion) is that this quote is not substantiated or corroborated by anyone other than Paul himself (one witness).

MM, have you been to the third heaven? Paul was taken there in vision, do you have visions?

I wish we could deal more with facts here and less with opinions. Would you take my opinions to heart MM?

[Musicman1228]

I do consider your opinions, Richard, just as I hope you will consider mine. I am not making or passing judgment on how you believe what you believe,and with respect I would appreciate the same consideration. Your assumption that my positions are ill considered (that I have not thought them through) smacks a little of elitism, and that is something of which I would not have thought you capable.

The fact that you have not made any statement regarding my position in this based on actually answering the question and confirming that position using the standard I have set for myself is disconcerting. All you did was imply that I am in the third heaven mentally and did not state any facts disproving my 'opinion'. You can do better than that.

This is aside from the fact that you acknowledged that this is my 'opinion', and opinion by its nature is something held by the observer based on facts sufficient for that observer and no one else.

[Parade Orange]

The Holy Spirit is a WITNESS and so is THe LAW

and even Jesus said one of the witnesses is GOD In HIM to the JEWS. So we do have TWO witness that is required by LAW!amen

.. DR Rich

Queers love the word Queer! its ok u can use that term instead of uuuhhh others(which i wont name).

I personally like the word FanceyNancyMan. But will take QUEER!

or the ONE HUNDRED AND THE FOURTY FOUR THOUSAND 'for they know no woman'

but thats another thread..

[Richard Holbrook]

All you did was imply that I am in the third heaven mentally and did not state any facts disproving my 'opinion'. You can do better than that.

Go back and read it again MM. I didn't imply you were anywhere mentally. I asked you a question: Have you been to the third heaven? Paul has. Have you had visions? Paul did. Do you speed read when you study?

[Dr. Rich]

PD, when you wrote: "or the ONE HUNDRED AND THE FOURTY FOUR THOUSAND 'for they know no woman'" I can answer that--for it is not to be understood by any other than the wise as found in Dan. 12:10. The wise know that this is in reference to spirituality, and that the 144k do not KNOW (have a relation with them) any other woman other than the Holy Spirit (God the Mother—the Woman of Revelation 12)

[Dr. Rich]

RH--Have you ever read what Paul said about him going to the third heaven? To do so, go to:

http://church-of-the-east.org/library/REVPAUL2.HTM

Now if you want to believe this-(I don't)-it is totally up to you. When you are finished with it you will have a better understanding of why the Catholic Church's doctrins are the way they are.

[Dr. Rich]

Correction--any other women means evil spirits.

[Richard Holbrook]

Why would I go there? It's in the Bible and SOP.

The apostle Paul was taken to the third heaven, and while there was given a view of celestial things. When he returned to a consciousness of earthly things, he found that it was impossible for him to describe the enrapturing scenes that had passed before him. But he kept in his soul the wonderful picture of what he had seen. {20MR 153.3}

[Richard Holbrook]

DR you're wrong about the Holy Spirit being a woman. Show me a Bible text even alluding to that. Also the Woman in the book of Revelation represents the church, not the HS.

[Dr. Rich]

RH-you missed out on the many posts that have been done in regards to this issue and I will not respond here. You can email me at eat84life@aol.com and I will answer you there. But then I know it would not do any good to answer you because your mind is already made up. So go ahead and believe what you want--it is totally your choice!

[Dr. Rich]

Ya--right--what ever you say you can believe.

[Richard Holbrook]

All I asked for was one text. Is that making you work to hard?

[Dr. Rich]

Rev. 12:1---This woman was in heaven and the church was NEVER in heaven.

Rev. 12:5---This woman (not Mary because she wasn't in heaven either) gives birth to Jesus.

Rev. 12:17---This Woman gives birth to the saints (144k) who keep the commandments and the words (testimony) of Jesus. These people are born of the Holy Spirit.

John 3:6---This Woman who gives birth is called the Spirit.

Please note that ALL of the words for "Spirit" in the Old Testament are feminine nouns.

Gen. 1:26---God said let us make man (kind) in OUR image—male and female.

Now prove me wrong with the words of Jesus and the Old Testament. Please!

[Neil D]

Acts 11:15

"And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning.

Can you tell us why you refer to the HS as female when the above text clearly refers to the Holy Spirit as a male....