The Truth about EVERYTHING

[Dr. Rich]

John wrote: "Never does the Bible refer to the Holy Spirit as "her." It is always "it" or "he." Again, the use of "it" does not indicate that the Holy Spirit is not a person, because evil spirits are also described as "it."

John, try Gen. 1:2. It is Strong's 7307 which is a Hebrew feminine noun.

[Dr. Rich]

RH--in the Septuagint the word in Ex 35:31 is for angels.

In Neh 9:20, the word is 'Strong's 7307 again--and this is a Hebrew feminine noun.

I didn't say that the Holy Spirit was not involved in the Old Testament--just that SHE had been given by Jesus specifically to the disciples prior to the Penticost.

[Richard Holbrook]

Yes Gail, I formed my opinion from 1st John 3:6-9 and 5:18. Do you see anything wrong with this?

Ah, so you believe John then. GOOD!

1Jo 5:4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith.

And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1Jo 2:1,2

[John317]

John wrote: "Never does the Bible refer to the Holy Spirit as "her." It is always "it" or "he." Again, the use of "it" does not indicate that the Holy Spirit is not a person, because evil spirits are also described as "it."

John, try Gen. 1:2. It is Strong's 7307 which is a Hebrew feminine noun.

Yes, the Hebrew word "ruach" which is variously translated "Spirit," "wind," "spirit," "breath," "mind," is feminine. But the fact that the noun is feminine doesn't mean that the Spirit is feminine or female. Is a scroll or a book female? Obviously not, yet in Hebrew the word for scroll is feminine {Strongs #1556}.

Notice that the Greeks translated the feminine noun "ruach" with the Greek neuter noun, "pneuma." This is significant because it shows the translators were aware that the mere fact that "ruach" is feminine does tell us anything about the Holy Spirit's sex.

There were no female priests in Israel, yet, in the Bible, the Hebrew word for "priesthood" is feminine. Again, obviously that doesn't mean the priest was female. (See Strongs #3550)

It may be of interest to you to note that the word Neshamah, which means "a puff of air" is also feminine.

The bottom line is that words were not assigned their gender according to their sex, whether female or male. Pronouns are a different thing. That is why it is important to notice that nowhere in the Bible is the Holy Spirit referred to as "her." There were times, with reference to the Holy Spirit, when the rules of grammar required that the pronoun be "it," yet Jesus deliberately chose to use a masculine pronoun, "he," "him."

In Is. 40: 13, 14, all the pronouns for "Spirit" are masculine, even though "ruach" [spirit] is feminine.

[John317]

RH--in the Septuagint the word in Ex 35:31 is for angels.

How do you arrive at that? It's referring to the fact that God "filled" Moses with "a divine spirit of wisdom," etc.

[phkrause]

Good point Neil.

pk

[John317]

Acts 11:15

"And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning.

Can you tell us why you refer to the HS as female when the above text clearly refers to the Holy Spirit as a male....

There is no biblical reason to refer to the Holy Spirit as a woman or as female.

However, consider:

The Greek always has "gender." Greek nouns are either "feminine," "masculine," or "neuter." The Greek word, pneuma [spirit], is a neuter noun, which does not indicate either sex. The words "child" and "infant" in Greek are also neuter.

As for Acts 11: 15, the King James Version gives the literal reading. The Greek lacks the pronoun, "he." It was added by the translator in some translations.

Notice, however, that in some parts of the book of John, Greek grammar required the use of "it" whereas Jesus uses the masculine pronoun, "he," to refer to the Holy Spirit. Never does the Bible refer to the Holy Spirit with a feminine pronoun, "her." It is always "it" or "he." Again, the use of "it" does not indicate that the Holy Spirit is not a person, because evil spirits are also described as "it."

The Hebrew word "ruach" which is variously translated "Spirit," "wind," "spirit," "breath," "mind," is feminine. But the fact that the noun is feminine doesn't mean that the Spirit is feminine or female. For instance, the word for scroll is also feminine {Strongs #1556}.

[Dr. Rich]

John wrote: "There is no biblical reason to refer to the Holy Spirit as a woman or as female."

Maybe not for you, but there is plunty for me. My mother was the one who I came out of the womb from--not my father. Jesus talked about being born again by the Holy Spirit--not the Father. Ya, I know it's hard for those to see when they don't want to.

[Richard Holbrook]

He didn't just say it, he proved it. But nevermind the evidence right?

[John317]

John wrote: "There is no biblical reason to refer to the Holy Spirit as a woman or as female."

Maybe not for you, but there is plunty for me. My mother was the one who I came out of the womb from--not my father. Jesus talked about being born again by the Holy Spirit--not the Father. Ya, I know it's hard for those to see when they don't want to.

Surely, my friend, it must be clear to you, though, that just because God made humans so that we come out of a woman, it does not mean that the Holy Spirit is female.

The only way we know anything certain about God is through God's self-revelation. We cannot know anything for certain about the nature of God through reason or logic.

Therefore we must rely on special revelation.

Special revelation gives no evidence that the Holy Spirit is a woman or a female.

You are assuming that since humans come out of females, that humans must be "born again" from a female God.

But that is faulty logic because God, of course, is not human. He is always referred to as "He" or "Him," never as "She" or "Her."

Besides, the process of spiritual birth is completely different from that of physical birth. This is a second reason why it is invalid to compare human birth with being born again by the Holy Spirit. Our first birth is physical and requires sexual intercourse, whereas the spiritual birth obviously does not require sexual intercourse, nor does it involve a female, but requires faith in Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit. John 1: 13.

[Neil D]

Neil--the Greek has no gender. The word "he" could be for either gender. The editors therefore got it wrong because they didn't know the truth. I don't blame them--but words do have special meanings. Do you know the difference between "Lawful" and "Legal"? One is the truth and the other is fictional law.

The editors got it wrong because they don't know the truth...????.....The editors are men and women who study greek and hebrew in and out and pretty much eat and drink and sleep greek and hebrew....Don't you think it odd, when these scholars miss a vital piece of information such as inserting the word "He" in a biblical passage of such importance....

This is pretty wrong to miss this.....Especially when a biblical scholar misses key vital passage...

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

Neil--the Greek has no gender. The word "he" could be for either gender.

The Greek always has "gender." Greek nouns are either "feminine," "masculine," or "neuter." The Greek word, pneuma[spirit], is a neuter noun, which does not indicate either sex. The words "child" and "infant" in Greek are also neuter.

As for Acts 11: 15, the King James Version gives the literal reading. The Greek lacks the pronoun, "he." It was added by the translator in some translations.

Notice, however, that in some parts of the book of John, Greek grammar required the use of "it" whereas Jesus uses the masculine pronoun, "he," to refer to the Holy Spirit. Never does the Bible refer to the Holy Spirit as "her." It is always "it" or "he." Again, the use of "it" does not indicate that the Holy Spirit is not a person, because evil spirits are also described as "it."

Acts 15:7-9 (New American Standard Bible)

7After there had been much (A)debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brethren, you know that in the early days (B)God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of ©the gospel and believe.

8"And God, (D)who knows the heart, testified to them (E)giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;

9and (F)He made no distinction between us and them, (G)cleansing their hearts by faith.

John, this passage is a reflection of Act 11. It uses the same wording...and it also uses the word "he" ....However, the reflection is on God the father....could the greek clarify it a bit?

[Dr. Rich]

John---whatever???

[Dr. Rich]

Sorry about my last post--what I should have said is: “perhaps the Holy Spirit is neutral?—After all, why would a ‘spirit’ have any gender? Any thoughts?

[John317]

Sorry about my last post--what I should have said is: “perhaps the Holy Spirit is neutral?—After all, why would a ‘spirit’ have any gender? Any thoughts?

In the Greek and Hebrew languages, all words are masculine, feminine or neuter, and it has nothing to do with the sex of those things, nor with whether something is neutral.

For instance, in Hebrew the word "ruach" is feminine, whereas the same word in Greek, "pneuma," is neuter. This does not tell us anything about whether "spirit" is female or not.

"Neuter" does not mean the thing named is "neutral."

In the Greek, the word for "children" (either male or female) is also neuter.

The word translated "man-made" is feminine.

"Truth" is masculine.

"Faith" is feminine.

"Sanctuary" is masculine.

"Conscience" is feminine.

"Infant" (whether male or female) is neuter.

"Angels" are masculine.

[Dr. Rich]

Great post John. thanks for the research.

[John317]

Quote:

Originally Posted By: Neil D

Acts 15:7-9 (New American Standard Bible)

7After there had been much (A)debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brethren, you know that in the early days (B)God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of ©the gospel and believe.

8"And God, (D)who knows the heart, testified to them (E)giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;

In verse 8, the Greek lacks the personal pronoun "He," and it reads literally, "giving the Holy Spirit according as to us also...."

Quote:

NEIL D--

9 and (F)He made no distinction between us and them, (G)cleansing their hearts by faith.

Again, the first pronoun "He" is added by the translators; so the original reads, literally, "and in nothing discriminates between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith." (See NASB, KJV, NKJV, John Darby's Trans.)

However, the verb, "cleansing," is third person masculine aorist participle, and therefore it may be translated, "He cleansed..." (Acts 15: 9; see NIV)

Quote:

NEIL D--

John, this passage is a reflection of Act 11. It uses the same wording...and it also uses the word "he" ....However, the reflection is on God the father....could the greek clarify it a bit?

Acts 11: 15 and 15: 9 are similar passages in terms of message, but they are different structurally. 11: 15 lacks any personal pronouns in the original, whereas the verb in 15: 9 gives the third person masculine personal pronoun.

Compare John 14: 26 where Jesus uses the masculine demonstrative pronoun, ekeinos, "He" or "this One." This is interesting because the previous pronoun is neuter, "which."

Literally, "which the Father will send in my name."

Yet Jesus chose deliberately to go against the rules of grammar in order to use the masculine pronoun to refer to the Holy Spirit: "He will teach you all things ..." This is strong evidence that Jesus views the Holy Spirit as a person.

Compare John 14: 26 (with its neuter relative pronoun, "which the Father will send") with John 15: 26 where the relative pronoun is masculine, "whom I will send." Jesus combines it with the demonstrative pronoun, ekeinos, "he, " or "this one." Thus Jesus says, "He will testify of me..." Only a personal being can testify and teach.

John 16: 7, 8, 13, 14 are other verses in which masculine pronouns are significantly used in reference to the Holy Spirit: v. 7, auton, "him"; and v. 8, "When He comes, He will convict..." [elthon ekeinos elegchei].

In. v. 7, if the writer meant to indicate the feminine pronoun, it would read, authn, not the masculine, auton. (DO NOT BELIEVE ANYONE WHO TELLS YOU THAT THE THIRD PERSON SINGULAR MASCULINE PRONOUN, AUTON, CAN BE TRANSLATED AS "HER" OR "THEIR.")

V. 13, "when He" [ekeinos], and the third person singular verbs, "He will guide," "He will speak," "He will tell." All these require the masculine personal pronouns in reference to the Holy Spirit.

V. 14-- "He [ekeinos] will bring glory... "