So what are the "Merits" of Christ?

[skyblue888]

The merits of Christ, not our merits, is our only hope of gaining heaven.

Remission of sins can be obtained only through the merits of Christ. {DA 806.3}

Right on!

"When we seek to gain Heaven through the merits of Christ, the soul makes progress." Faith and Works,94.

"By faith take hold of the merits of Christ and the soul-cleansing blood will be applied." F.W.96.

"When we trust God fully, when we rely upon the merits of a sin-pardoning Saviour, we shall receive all the help that we can desire." P.P.431.

sky

[skyblue888]

post repeated twice so was deleted

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

Rob, since I have known you, you have been quoting from the writings of Ellen White left and right!!!

[/quote']

Yeah but that's only when she's right & agrees with him.

seemingly agreeing with him u mean hehe

We must follow the divine counsel as to how to study her writings. "The testimonies themselves will be the key that will explain the messages given as Scripture is explained by Scripture." 1 S.M.42.

Only by comparing statement with statement as we compare Scripture with Scripture can we arrive at a correct understanding of the truth.

sky

[skyblue888]

But yesterday somebody asked if he knew more than EGW and he said yes.

Interesting. But based on his understanding of her writings, I will dare to say that Rob needs to be converted for he does not yet understand that the grace of the Holy Spirit is given to keep us from sinning. "Awake to righteousness and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame." 1 Cor.15:34.

"He has made provision that the Holy Spirit shall be imparted to every repentant soul to keep him from sinning." D.A.311.

"Be filled with the Holy Spirit." Eph.5:18.

These are the oracles of the living God. They are to be received not written merely but spoken! "He speaks and it is done!" Psalm 33:9.

sky

[Guest]

Amen

[Dr. Rich]

Sky, when you wrote about how to 'study her' (EGW) how come you didn't respond to what wayfinder and I wrote about page 433 of the GC? Here we see the 7th trumpet sounded. But how can that be without the 5th and 6th trumpet sounding first? (not to mention 1,2,3 and 4 trumpets)

If she got this wrong and she said God gave her this information, then what else is wrong? Sure, there is no question that the majority of what she said is wonderful! A good counterfeit would have to be wonderful and full of many truths. In fact, there are many things that she wrote that I think is great. Like there are many, many beliefs that we will have to give up to accept new truth.

[skyblue888]

Sky, when you wrote about how to 'study her' (EGW) how come you didn't respond to what wayfinder and I wrote about page 433 of the GC? Here we see the 7th trumpet sounded. But how can that be without the 5th and 6th trumpet sounding first? (not to mention 1,2,3 and 4 trumpets)

If she got this wrong and she said God gave her this information, then what else is wrong? Sure, there is no question that the majority of what she said is wonderful! A good counterfeit would have to be wonderful and full of many truths. In fact, there are many things that she wrote that I think is great. Like there are many, many beliefs that we will have to give up to accept new truth.

I will take a look tomorrow.

[Twilight]

Christ's perfect robe of righteousness is both imputed and imparted to us. In other words, genuine justification-- having the perfect righteousness of Christ put to our account, or being declared righteous-- actually changes us so that we become more like Christ. Justification affects our lives and is not a static truth. It results in the process of sanctification. If it doesn't, it's not genuine.

This is one area in which the 1888 Message as taught by Ellen White, E.J. Waggoner and A.T. Jones was different from the view of righteousness by faith that the 16th century Reformers taught.

Waggoner wrote in 1893: "Being justified by faith, then, is simply being made a doer of the law by faith.... What the law cannot do, the grace of God does. It justifies a man.... It does not mean that He glosses over a man's faults, so that that man is counted righteous, although he is really wicked; but it means that He makes that man a doer of the law. The moment God declares an ungodly man righteous, that instant that man is a doer of the law... It will be seen, therefore, that there can be no higher state than that of justification [by faith]. It does everything that God can do for a man short of making him immortal, which is done only at the resurrection." (Signs of the Times, 1893)

Beautiful quote, thank you for sharing. :-)

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Where's the "imparted" righteousness in the above?

Good quote' date=' Redwood!

[/quote']

So, what does Christ do with our works in the judgment? Do they save? No!

First, why is there a judgement? Because there's an accuser! He [satan] correctly tells God that He doesn't have a right to take believing sinners to heaven. So what does God do? Does He look to see how good believers are (imparted righteousness)? No!

He examines the works to see if He is the source of the fruits because the believer is standing on the Rock Jesus Christ for his assurance and salvation. In other words when one is depending on the imputed righteousness of Christ for his ticket to heaven the imparted righteousness will be genuine. Once Christ establishes this He can tell Satan, “This person’s faith is in Me and in Me he stands complete (imputed righteousness). So God looks at the source of your works to prove, not your righteousness, but your faith. Then He presents you perfect in His imputed righteousness!

So the important thing is where are your works coming from? Are they an attempt to help Christ save you (imparted + imputed), or are you depending solely on Christ’s imputed righteousness? If so, your imparted fruits will be genuine because they’ll be free of any iniquity….

You see if I don’t have assurance in Christ’s imputed righteousness all my works will be egocentric because I am depending on those works [imparted works] to some how save me….Such works will be void of the Spirit and hence self-righteous works (even if we claim they come from God). They will prove the so called believer’s faith is not fully in Christ, but partially in what Christ does in the believer….Such will be condemned because their faith was partially in their surrender/works…..It's called self-righteousness....

The works that God does in us, glorify Him.

That is the purpose of the works.

Anyone teaching that that "works" are not important, do not feel it necessary to glorify God.

That should set alarm bells ringing.

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Robert

You are making EGW the measuring stick of truth....Go use Paul....He is part of the Bible, not Ellen....

The apostle Paul taught the same exactly. Through faith in the merits of Christ's shed blood (Rom.3:25) Paul prayed by the Holy Spirit that Christ may dwell in our hearts by faith that we may be filled with all the fullness of God! Eph.3:14-19. This is the fullness of the blessing of the Gospel of Christ Paul speaks of in Rom.15:29.

Paul said, "I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I but the grace of God which was with me." 1 Cor.15:8,10.

The fullness of the grace of the Holy Spirit is the blessing of the Gospel of Christ, the Holy Spirit coming with no modified energy but in the fullness of divine light and love and power. This is the grace which was at work in the apostle Paul and in Jesus of Nazareth.

This is the command of the everlasting God for obedience to the faith: "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen." Romans 16:24-26. "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen." 1 Thess.5:28. "And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant with faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. See 1 Tim.2:14.

This is the grace that was upon the apostles at Pentecost. "Great grace was upon them all." Acts 4:33.

Rob, since I have known you, you have been quoting from the writings of Ellen White left and right!!!

Rob, since I have known you, you have been quoting from the writings of Ellen White left and right!!!

Of course, but Rob filters them through his greater light (as he claimed the other day).

Mark

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Where's the "imparted" righteousness in the above?

Good quote' date=' Redwood!

[/quote']

AS long as you are quoting Ellen White, she plainly teaches that the robe of Christ's righteousness includes the "imparted righteousness" of Christ.

"It is the righteousness of Christ, His own unblemished character, that through faith is IMPARTED to all who receive Him as their personal Savior." COL 310.

Read the entire chapter.

You may think it is "heresy" but at least you will know what she wrote.

So, salvation equals not only Christ's imputed righteousness, but what He does in me? I'm

saved partially by the cross and partially by His works in me? What the %??? 50/50? 30/70? How much....?

[Robert]

The works that God does in us, glorify Him.

Okay, good, but they are not what saves....When you make them a salvation issue you put us under law....That would make you a Judaizer....

[Twilight]

Further to the topic:

Jhn 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

Your thoughts on this verse?

Mark

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

The works that God does in us, glorify Him.

Okay, good, but they are not what saves....When you make them a salvation issue you put us under law....That would make you a Judaizer....

You are correct, only the merits of Christ save us.

But here is the "but":

But, only those that work the "works" of God, can prove by their "fruits" that they have in fact received the merits of Christ.

If you have received the merits of Christ, it will result in obedience to Gods law.

Not in your own strength, but by the power and grace of God.

Those that say they have the "merits of Christ" and it gives them license to sin, do not have the merits, but something else. Something carnal.

-------------------------

So the righteousness of Christ produces "obedience" in us.

God bless,

Mark

[Robert]

only those that work the "works" of God, can prove by their "fruits" that they have in fact received the merits of Christ.

BS, BS, BS! That's merit...that's credit....If it walks, quacks, like a duck, it's a duck....I smell self-righteousness...Christ does too, hence, He's ready to vomit you out....REV chapter 3.....

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

only those that work the "works" of God, can prove by their "fruits" that they have in fact received the merits of Christ.

BS, BS, BS! That's merit...that's credit....If it walks, quacks, like a duck, it's a duck....I smell self-righteousness...Christ does too, hence, He's ready to vomit you out....REV chapter 3.....

You need to calm down my friend...

[Robert]

So, what does Christ do with our works in the judgment? Do they save? No!

First, why is there a judgement? Because there's an accuser! He [satan] correctly tells God that He doesn't have a right to take believing sinners to heaven. So what does God do? Does He look to see how good believers are (imparted righteousness)? No!

He examines the works to see if He is the source of the fruits because the believer is standing on the Rock Jesus Christ for his assurance and salvation. In other words when one is depending on the imputed righteousness of Christ for his ticket to heaven the imparted righteousness will be genuine. Once Christ establishes this He can tell Satan, “This person’s faith is in Me and in Me he stands complete (imputed righteousness). So God looks at the source of your works to prove, not your righteousness, but your faith. Then He presents you perfect in His imputed righteousness!

So the important thing is where are your works coming from? Are they an attempt to help Christ save you (imparted + imputed), or are you depending solely on Christ’s imputed righteousness? If so, your imparted fruits will be genuine because they’ll be free of any iniquity….

You see if I don’t have assurance in Christ’s imputed righteousness all my works will be egocentric because I am depending on those works [imparted works] to some how save me….Such works will be void of the Spirit and hence self-righteous works (even if we claim they come from God). They will prove the so called believer’s faith is not fully in Christ, but partially in what Christ does in the believer….Such will be condemned because their faith was partially in their surrender/works…..It's called self-righteousness....

This goes hand in hand with EGW's statement:

Satan has an accurate knowledge of the sins that he has tempted God’s people to commit, and he urges his accusations against them, declaring, that by their sins they have forfeited divine protection, and claiming that he has the right to destroy them. He pronounces them just as deserving as himself of exclusion from the favor of God. “Are these,” he says, “the people who are to take my place in heaven, and the place of the angels who united with me? They profess to obey the law of God; but have they kept its precepts? Have they not been lovers of self more than lovers of God? Have they not placed their own interests above His service? Have they not loved the things of the world? Look at the sins that have marked their lives. Behold their selfishness, their malice, their hatred of one another. Will God banish me and my angels from His presence, and yet reward those who have been guilty of the same sins? Thou canst not do this, O Lord, in justice. Justice demands that sentence be pronounced against them.” But while the followers of Christ have sinned, they have not given themselves up to be controlled by the satanic agencies. They have repented of their sins and have sought the Lord in humility and contrition, and the divine Advocate pleads in their behalf. He who has been most abused by their ingratitude, who knows their sin and also their penitence, declares: “The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan. I gave My life for these souls. They are graven upon the palms of My hands [that's the "in Christ" truth]. They may have imperfections of character; they may have failed in their endeavors; but they have repented, and I have forgiven and accepted them.” [PK 589]

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

BS, BS, BS! That's merit...that's credit....If it walks, quacks, like a duck, it's a duck....I smell self-righteousness...Christ does too, hence, He's ready to vomit you out....REV chapter 3..... [/quote']

You need to calm down my friend...

1] You are not my friend, so don't pretend to be

2] You are an enemy of the gospel....You must be opposed and exposed....You mean well, but so did the Judaizers in Paul's days....

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Robert

So, what does Christ do with our works in the judgment? Do they save? No!

First, why is there a judgement? Because there's an accuser! He [satan] correctly tells God that He doesn't have a right to take believing sinners to heaven. So what does God do? Does He look to see how good believers are (imparted righteousness)? No!

He examines the works to see if He is the source of the fruits because the believer is standing on the Rock Jesus Christ for his assurance and salvation. In other words when one is depending on the imputed righteousness of Christ for his ticket to heaven the imparted righteousness will be genuine. Once Christ establishes this He can tell Satan, “This person’s faith is in Me and in Me he stands complete (imputed righteousness). So God looks at the source of your works to prove, not your righteousness, but your faith. Then He presents you perfect in His imputed righteousness!

So the important thing is where are your works coming from? Are they an attempt to help Christ save you (imparted + imputed), or are you depending solely on Christ’s imputed righteousness? If so, your imparted fruits will be genuine because they’ll be free of any iniquity….

You see if I don’t have assurance in Christ’s imputed righteousness all my works will be egocentric because I am depending on those works [imparted works] to some how save me….Such works will be void of the Spirit and hence self-righteous works (even if we claim they come from God). They will prove the so called believer’s faith is not fully in Christ, but partially in what Christ does in the believer….Such will be condemned because their faith was partially in their surrender/works…..It's called self-righteousness....

This goes hand in hand with EGW's statement:

Satan has an accurate knowledge of the sins that he has tempted God’s people to commit, and he urges his accusations against them, declaring, that by their sins they have forfeited divine protection, and claiming that he has the right to destroy them. He pronounces them just as deserving as himself of exclusion from the favor of God. “Are these,” he says, “the people who are to take my place in heaven, and the place of the angels who united with me? They profess to obey the law of God; but have they kept its precepts? Have they not been lovers of self more than lovers of God? Have they not placed their own interests above His service? Have they not loved the things of the world? Look at the sins that have marked their lives. Behold their selfishness, their malice, their hatred of one another. Will God banish me and my angels from His presence, and yet reward those who have been guilty of the same sins? Thou canst not do this, O Lord, in justice. Justice demands that sentence be pronounced against them.” But while the followers of Christ have sinned, they have not given themselves up to be controlled by the satanic agencies. They have repented of their sins and have sought the Lord in humility and contrition, and the divine Advocate pleads in their behalf. He who has been most abused by their ingratitude, who knows their sin and also their penitence, declares: “The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan. I gave My life for these souls. They are graven upon the palms of My hands [that's the "in Christ" truth]. They may have imperfections of character; they may have failed in their endeavors; but they have repented, and I have forgiven and accepted them.” [PK 589]

I am sorry Robert.

But I cannot accept your usage of any of Ellen Whites statements, as you obviously think you have the right to twist, use, throw them out at will...

Mark

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

1] You are not my friend, so don't pretend to be

2] You are an enemy of the gospel....You must be opposed and exposed....You mean well, but so did the Judaizers in Paul's days....

Then oppose and expose, but ranting and raving does not reveal the Spirit of Christ.

Mark.

[Robert]

You mean well, but so did the Judaizers in Paul's days....

Acts 15: 1 Some men [these are the Judaizers] came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the brothers: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved." 2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. 3 The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the brothers very glad. 4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them. 5 Then some of the believers [again, the Judaizers] who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses [the book of the law]."

6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

And then, on the same subject, Paul said:

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free [from under law], and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage [obey & live, disobey & die]. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised [one of requirements for heaven in the book of the law], Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged [cut off] from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Now turn back to Gal 3:10

For as many as are of the works of the law [salvation ultimately by one's works] are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them." 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just by faith will live." 12 Yet the law is not of faith, instead "the man who does them shall by them live." [in other words back to verse 10] 13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"*), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

[Robert]

Then oppose and expose, but ranting and raving does not reveal the Spirit of Christ.

Mark.

Maybe not, but neither does your sickening self-righteousness...your holy Joeness...

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Then oppose and expose, but ranting and raving does not reveal the Spirit of Christ.

Mark.

Maybe not, but neither does your sickening self-righteousness...your holy Joeness...

Just to clarify:

I have no righteousness of my own, all my righteousness is as filthy rags.

God bless :-)

Mark

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Maybe not, but neither does your sickening self-righteousness...your holy Joeness...

[/quote']

Just to clarify:

I have no righteousness of my own, all my righteousness is as filthy rags.

God bless :-)

Mark

Right, then you are relying solely on the imputed righteousness of Christ for your salvation, right?

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Right, then you are relying solely on the imputed righteousness of Christ for your salvation, right?

No, I am relying on the imputed and imparted righteousness of Christ...