So what are the "Merits" of Christ?

[Robert]

No, I am relying on the imputed and imparted righteousness of Christ...

How much of the imparted righteousness of Christ are you relying on?

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

No, I am relying on the imputed and imparted righteousness of Christ...

How much of the imparted righteousness of Christ are you relying on?

Do you understand what you are asking me?

What do you think the "imparted" righteousness is?

Mark

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

No, I am relying on the imputed and imparted righteousness of Christ...

How much of the imparted righteousness of Christ are you relying on?

Thanks for this question Rob. It is a good one. Are we saved by the sacrifice of Jesus AND if we allow the works of Christ in our lives 100%. Or are we saved by the death of Jesus plus allowing 50% of HIS good works in our lives.

As for me .... I do not allow 100% of his works to be shown in my life. Am I condemned to death? Will I be lost. I will sin till the day I die. Am I lost? OR am I any different from David or Moses or any of the Bible greats?

Obvioiusly when a sinner comes to Christ he will be changed. The good works of Christ will be seen in his life. ALL have seen this. ALL good comes from Christ. Even the athiests have good works from Christ. But the good works from Christ will not save them. And they will not save me.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Robert

How much of the imparted righteousness of Christ are you relying on? [/quote']

Thanks for this question Rob. It is a good one. Are we saved by the sacrifice of Jesus AND if we allow the works of Christ in our lives 100%. Or are we saved by the death of Jesus plus allowing 50% of HIS good works in our lives.

As for me .... I do not allow 100% of his works to be shown in my life. Am I condemned to death? Will I be lost. I will sin till the day I die. Am I lost? OR am I any different from David or Moses or any of the Bible greats?

Obvioiusly when a sinner comes to Christ he will be changed. The good works of Christ will be seen in his life. ALL have seen this. ALL good comes from Christ. Even the athiests have good works from Christ. But the good works from Christ will not save them. And they will not save me.

But the good works from Christ will not save them.

Correct, but if you do not have them, then you will not be saved...

Because if you do not have the good works, you do not have the "merits of Christ".

Whilst there may be a stumble or mistake in the walk, the tendency will be towards revealing the "works of God".

Mark

[Woody]

Ahh. That's a relief b'cause like I said ... ALL in this world have some of the good works of Christ. Even athiests. So ... it is a given. We all have it. Now we can go about the business of praisin' God.

[Twilight]

Ahh. That's a relief b'cause like I said ... ALL in this world have some of the good works of Christ. Even athiests. So ... it is a given. We all have it. Now we can go about the business of praisin' God.

So now you are teaching all will be saved?

[skyblue888]

ahh, of course, if there is anything good in you it is wholly attributable to the mercy and merits of a compasionate Saviour for Christ is the Saviour of all men but especially those who believe.

The Spirit of Christ moves upon all and that is why we see goodness manifested in the atheists more than in some so-called Christians even. Christ is no respector of persons. His Spirit moves in and upon all men whoever they may be. In the days of Christ He had more success in influencing prostitutes than those who called themselves the guardians of sacred trusts. These were not teachable. It is the same today. There is nothing new under the sun. Like many in Christ's day many who profess to believe both the Bible and the Testimonies take on an air of piety and devotion only to better deceive others and in this way, not only do they reject the truths for this time but they are not willing that others should receive them.

sky

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: Robert

How much of the imparted righteousness of Christ are you relying on? [/quote']

Thanks for this question Rob. It is a good one. Are we saved by the sacrifice of Jesus AND if we allow the works of Christ in our lives 100%. Or are we saved by the death of Jesus plus allowing 50% of HIS good works in our lives.

As for me .... I do not allow 100% of his works to be shown in my life. Am I condemned to death? Will I be lost. I will sin till the day I die. Am I lost? OR am I any different from David or Moses or any of the Bible greats?

Obvioiusly when a sinner comes to Christ he will be changed. The good works of Christ will be seen in his life. ALL have seen this. ALL good comes from Christ. Even the athiests have good works from Christ. But the good works from Christ will not save them. And they will not save me.

sometimes one may get the impression that the same individual is using different handles... hmmmm i've seen this on other forums,,,,

[Twilight]

[Lutz13]

So now you are teaching all will be saved?

That is where I struggle with this. People who claim "I believe in Jesus I'm saved so I can do whatever I want." Then like you say, everyone would be saved. Which I would love to happen, but Jesus made it clear that that isn't to happen. "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able."(Luke 13:24) "But He will say, 'I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from ME all you workers of iniquity."(Luke 13:27) Robert, I can kind of see your point too. We are not to focus or even consider our works. They do not get us into heaven. Now if we are focused on Christ, then good works are as natural to us as is breathing..."Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works is dead."(James 2:17) Your works(which we don't focus on cause we would boast) are a testament to your faith. Your works are to glorify God, and not yourself.

The law is all about love. Once you learn to love God and your fellow man, you will begin to say "I delight to do Your will, O my God, and Your law is within my heart"(Psalm 40:8) I do not understand how that can be considered legalism. He wants us to come to Him "'Come now, and let us reason together,' says the Lord, 'Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool."(Isaiah 1:18)"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."(1 John 1:9) God can only save us if we let Him. He will not force salvation on us.

[skyblue888]

That is right. God will not force Himself on us and yet it is written, "The words and commands of God, written in the soul, are spirit and life, and there is power in them to bring into subjection and enforce obedience." Testimonies, Vol.1,361.

I have been puzzled by statements like this one until I understood the difference between the letter and the Spirit. The mere letter of the word of God, written with ink or engraved on stones, cannot impart life. It is as dry as the ink it is written with or as cold as the stones it is engraved upon. The mere letter of the word of God is a ministry of death. "The letter kills." 2 Cor.3:6,7. But when, through the merits of Christ's shed blood, we receive the word as the voice of God speaking to us individually, the word of God imparts power, it begets life, even the life of the Infinite One! "I know that His commandment is life everlasting." John 12:50. Then the word of God is the ministry of the Spirit, the ministry of life and righteousness. 2 Cor.3:8; Rom.8:10.

Then we can better appreciate what the Lord means when He says, "I the Lord speak righteousness." "The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness." Isaiah 45:19,23. "All the words of My mouth are with righteousness." Prov.8:8. "All Thy commandments are righteousness." Psalm 119:172. "I will never forget Your commandments for with them You have given me life." Psalm 119:50,93.

Then we delight to do His will. Then His will on earth will be done as it is in Heaven. "Bless the Lord, you His angels, who excel in strength, who do His will, hearkening unto the voice of His word." Psalm 103:20.

"Receive, I pray thee, the law from His mouth, and lay up His words in your heart." Job 22:22. "Your words were found and I ate them, and Your word was to me the joy and rejoicing of my heart." Jer.16:16.

Your thoughts,

sky

*"The law of ten precepts of the greatest love that can be presented to man is the voice of God from Heaven speaking to the soul in promise... There is not a negative in that law, although it may appear thus." E.G.White, Bible Commentary

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

So now you are teaching all will be saved?

That is where I struggle with this. People who claim "I believe in Jesus I'm saved so I can do whatever I want." Then like you say, everyone would be saved. Which I would love to happen, but Jesus made it clear that that isn't to happen. "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able."(Luke 13:24) "But He will say, 'I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from ME all you workers of iniquity."(Luke 13:27) Robert, I can kind of see your point too. We are not to focus or even consider our works. They do not get us into heaven. Now if we are focused on Christ, then good works are as natural to us as is breathing..."Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works is dead."(James 2:17) Your works(which we don't focus on cause we would boast) are a testament to your faith. Your works are to glorify God, and not yourself.

The law is all about love. Once you learn to love God and your fellow man, you will begin to say "I delight to do Your will, O my God, and Your law is within my heart"(Psalm 40:8) I do not understand how that can be considered legalism. He wants us to come to Him "'Come now, and let us reason together,' says the Lord, 'Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool."(Isaiah 1:18)"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."(1 John 1:9) God can only save us if we let Him. He will not force salvation on us.

Once you learn to love God and your fellow man

Can I just point out that this is not "learned" but "given"?

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

That is right. God will not force Himself on us and yet it is written, "The words and commands of God, written in the soul, are spirit and life, and there is power in them to bring into submission and enforce obedience." Testimonies, Vol.1,361.

I have been puzzled by statements like this one until I understood the difference between the letter and the Spirit. The mere letter of the word of God, written with ink or engraved on stones, cannot impart life. It is as dry as the ink it is written with or as cold as the stones it is engraved upon. The mere letter of the word of God is a ministry of death. "The letter kills." 2 Cor.3:6,7. But when, through the merits of Christ's shed blood, we receive the word as the voice of God speaking to us indivivually, the word of God imparts power, it begets life, even eternal life. "I know that His commandment is life everlasting." John 12:50. Then the word of God is the ministry of the Spirit, the ministry of life and righteousness. 2 Cor.3:8; Rom.8:10.

Then we can better appreciate what the Lord means when He says, "I the Lord speak righteousness." "The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness." Isaiah 45:19,23. "All the words of My mouth are with righteousness." Prov.8:8. "All Thy commandments are righteousness." Psalm 119:172. "I will never forget Your commandments for with them You have given me life." Psalm 119:50,93.

Then we delight to do His will. Then His will on earth will be done as it is in Heaven. "Bless the Lord, you His angels, who excel in strength, who do His will, hearkening unto the voice of His word." Psalm 103:20.

"Receive, I pray thee, the law from His mouth, and lay up His words in your heart." Job 22:22. "Your words were found and I ate them, and Your word was to me the joy and rejoicing of my heart." Jer.16:16.

Your thoughts,

sky

Agreed, and to add:

When we receive the word of God, by a decision of the will, a choice, into our minds and hearts, we are changed.

But the truth has to be received into both, a mere head conversion is insufficient.

As we receive it by faith (decision of the will, that is strengthened by God), then the promise is "activated" in our lives.

But it really has to be a head and "heart" decision, for the truth to settle home and the promise be revealed to us.

God bless,

Mark

[Guest]

Once you learn to love God and your fellow man

Can I just point out that this is not "learned" but "given"?

Mark :-)

I believe that's right Mark.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Once you learn to love God and your fellow man

Can I just point out that this is not "learned" but "given"?

Mark :-)

I believe that's right Mark.

It is indeed my friend. :-)

Rom 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

[Guest]

Psa 24:5 He shall receive the blessing from the LORD, and righteousness from the God of his salvation.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

That is right. God will not force Himself on us and yet it is written, "The words and commands of God, written in the soul, are spirit and life, and there is power in them to bring into submission and enforce obedience." Testimonies, Vol.1,361.

I have been puzzled by statements like this one until I understood the difference between the letter and the Spirit. The mere letter of the word of God, written with ink or engraved on stones, cannot impart life. It is as dry as the ink it is written with or as cold as the stones it is engraved upon. The mere letter of the word of God is a ministry of death. "The letter kills." 2 Cor.3:6,7. But when, through the merits of Christ's shed blood, we receive the word as the voice of God speaking to us indivivually, the word of God imparts power, it begets life, even eternal life. "I know that His commandment is life everlasting." John 12:50. Then the word of God is the ministry of the Spirit, the ministry of life and righteousness. 2 Cor.3:8; Rom.8:10.

Then we can better appreciate what the Lord means when He says, "I the Lord speak righteousness." "The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness." Isaiah 45:19,23. "All the words of My mouth are with righteousness." Prov.8:8. "All Thy commandments are righteousness." Psalm 119:172. "I will never forget Your commandments for with them You have given me life." Psalm 119:50,93.

Then we delight to do His will. Then His will on earth will be done as it is in Heaven. "Bless the Lord, you His angels, who excel in strength, who do His will, hearkening unto the voice of His word." Psalm 103:20.

"Receive, I pray thee, the law from His mouth, and lay up His words in your heart." Job 22:22. "Your words were found and I ate them, and Your word was to me the joy and rejoicing of my heart." Jer.16:16.

Your thoughts,

sky

Agreed, and to add:

When we receive the word of God, by a decision of the will, a choice, into our minds and hearts, we are changed.

But the truth has to be received into both, a mere head conversion is insufficient.

As we receive it by faith (decision of the will, that is strengthened by God), then the promise is "activated" in our lives.

But it really has to be a head and "heart" decision, for the truth to settle home and the promise be revealed to us.

God bless,

Mark

Of course Mark. The word of God's mouth will not be fulfilled in us unless we accept it by the will and receive it into the soul, unless we consent for it to have free course in us. See 2 Thess.3:1.

"The creative energy that called the worlds into existence is in the word of God. This word imparts power, it begets life. Every command is a promise; accepted by the will, received into the soul, it brings with it the life of the Infinite One. It transforms the nature and re-creates the soul in the image of God. The life thus received is in like manner sustained, 'by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God' (Matt.4:4) shall man live." Education,126.

"In every command and in every promise of the word of God is the power, the very life of God by which the command may be fulfilled and the promise realized. He who by faith receives the word is receiving the very life and character of God." C.O.L.38.

It all depends on how we receive the word. If we receive it as the voice of God and we consent for that word to have free course in us, it will accomplish the will of God in us. It will bring all our inherited and cultivated tendencies to evil into subjection and enforce obedience. 1 Thess.2:13.

sky

[Woody]

Let me say it again. ALL have works. By your rules ... ALL would be saved. But it is my personal belief that we are not saved by works. We are saved by the blood of Jesus. Accepting that is very hard for some. Therefore ... not all will be saved.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Agreed, and to add:

When we receive the word of God, by a decision of the will, a choice, into our minds and hearts, we are changed.

But the truth has to be received into both, a mere head conversion is insufficient.

As we receive it by faith (decision of the will, that is strengthened by God), then the promise is "activated" in our lives.

But it really has to be a head and "heart" decision, for the truth to settle home and the promise be revealed to us.

God bless,

Mark [/quote']

Of course Mark. The word of God's mouth will not be fulfilled in us unless we accept it by the will and receive it into the soul, unless we consent for it to have free course in us. See 2 Thess.3:1.

"The creative energy that called the worlds into existence is in the word of God. This word imparts power, it begets life. Every command is a promise; accepted by the will, received into the soul, it brings with it the life of the Infinite One. It transforms the nature and re-creates the soul in the image of God. The life thus received is in like manner sustained, 'by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God' (Matt.4:4) shall man live." Education,126.

"In every command and in every promise of the word of God is the power, the very life of God by which the command may be fulfilled and the promise realized. He who by faith receives the word is receiving the very life and character of God." C.O.L.38.

It all depends on how we receive the word. If we receive it as the voice of God and we consent for that word to have free course in us, it will accomplish the will of God in us. It will bring all our inherited and cultivated tendencies to evil into subjection and enforce obedience. 1 Thess.2:13.

sky

Amen :-)

[Twilight]

Let me say it again. ALL have works. By your rules ... ALL would be saved. But it is my personal belief that we are not saved by works. We are saved by the blood of Jesus. Accepting that is very hard for some. Therefore ... not all will be saved.

How did you come to that conclusion?

That has never been stated by myself at all.

You may interpret my view that way, but that is what you have posted, your interpretation of my view.

Not my view itself.

Mark

[Woody]

I wasn't directing the post to you.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

Let me say it again. ALL have works. By your rules ... ALL would be saved. But it is my personal belief that we are not saved by works. We are saved by the blood of Jesus. Accepting that is very hard for some. Therefore ... not all will be saved.

How did you come to that conclusion?

That has never been stated by myself at all.

You may interpret my view that way, but that is what you have posted, your interpretation of my view.

Not my view itself.

Mark

Mark, I was wondering the same thing, how did Red come to that conclusion? I tried to make sense of it but couldn't.

Here is a word of wisdom from on High which covers the whole plan of redemption as far as faith, grace, works, merits, and rewards are concerned. Two comprehensive statements like no other.

"'We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.' Eph.2:10. In His divine arrangement, through His unmerited favor, the Lord has ordained that good works shall be rewarded. We are accepted through Christ's merit alone; and the acts of mercy, the deeds of charity, which we perform, are the fruits of faith; and they become a blessing to us; for men are to be rewarded according to their works. It is the fragrance of the merit of Christ that makes our good works acceptable to God, and it is grace that enables us to do the works for which He rewards us. Our works, in and of themselves, have no merit. When we have done (through His grace) all that it is possible for us to do, we are to count ourselves as unprofitable servants. Luke 17:10. We deserve no thanks from God. We have only done what it was our duty to do, and our works could not have been performed in the strength of our own sinful natures." E.G. White, RH Jan.29,1895. *parenthesis supplied

"Although we have no merit in ourselves, in the great goodness and love of God we are rewarded as if the merit were our own. When we have done all the good we can possibly do, we are still unprofitable servants. We have done only what was our duty. What we have accomplished has been wrought solely through the grace of Christ, and no reward is due to us from God on the ground of our merit. But through the merit of our Saviour, every promise that God has made will be fulfilled, and every man will be rewarded according to his deeds." {RH, June 27, 1893 par.15

And "Every command is a promise." C.O.L.38; Educ.126; M.B.76.

Can we find anything more enlightening in all the inspired writings, covering the subject of faith, grace, works, merits and rewards, as these two statements do?

sky

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

How did you come to that conclusion?

That has never been stated by myself at all.

You may interpret my view that way' date=' but that is what you have posted, your interpretation of my view.

Not my view itself.

Mark [/quote']

Mark, I was wondering the same thing, how did Red come to that conclusion? I tried to make sense of it but couldn't.

Here is a word of wisdom from on High which covers the whole plan of redemption as far as faith, grace, works, merits, and rewards are concerned. Two comprehensive statements like no other.

"'We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.' Eph.2:10. In His divine arrangement, through His unmerited favor, the Lord has ordained that good works shall be rewarded. We are accepted through Christ's merit alone; and the acts of mercy, the deeds of charity, which we perform, are the fruits of faith; and they become a blessing to us; for men are to be rewarded according to their works. It is the fragrance of the merit of Christ that makes our good works acceptable to God, and it is grace that enables us to do the works for which He rewards us. Our works, in and of themselves, have no merit. When we have done (through His grace) all that it is possible for us to do, we are to count ourselves as unprofitable servants. Luke 17:10. We deserve no thanks from God. We have only done what it was our duty to do, and our works could not have been performed in the strength of our own sinful natures." E.G. White, RH Jan.29,1895. *parenthesis supplied

"Although we have no merit in ourselves, in the great goodness and love of God we are rewarded as if the merit were our own. When we have done all the good we can possibly do, we are still unprofitable servants. We have done only what was our duty. What we have accomplished has been wrought solely through the grace of Christ, and no reward is due to us from God on the ground of our merit. But through the merit of our Saviour, every promise that God has made will be fulfilled, and every man will be rewarded according to his deeds." {RH, June 27, 1893 par.15

And "Every command is a promise." C.O.L.38; Educ.126; M.B.76.

Can we find anything more enlightening in all the inspired writings, covering the subject of faith, grace, works, merits and rewards, as these two statements do?

sky

Thank you my friend, very enlightening.

Obviously I thought Redwoods original post was aimed at me, not you, but as we pretty much agree on most points in this area, the response was probably valid. :-)

[Woody]

I have wondered if you are just talking and agreeing with yourself. This time it was caught. Come clean .... are you and Sky .... one and the same?

[Twilight]

I have wondered if you are just talking and agreeing with yourself. This time it was caught. Come clean .... are you and Sky .... one and the same?

We can both prove that we are seperate individuals, very easily.

Are you willing to prove that you and Robert are not in fact the same poster?

I am sure Sky would be happy for us to "prove" this to any number of people on this board, as would I.

Are you willing to do the same?

Mark