So what are the "Merits" of Christ?

[John317]

Just, Where did you get this writing by E.J. Waggoner? Is it online somewhere? I have some Jones and Waggoner books here somewhere but I can't find them.

Here's one very good book by Jones that you can read online:

http://www.sundaylaw.net/books/other/jones/conway/conwatoc.htm

On E. J. Waggoner, start here:

http://www.adventistheritage.org/article.php?id=46

Many of his writings for online downloads:

http://www.maranathamedia.com.au/index.php?option=com_rokdownloads&view=folder&Itemid=2&id=644:ej-waggoner

[Guest]

Thanks much

Wow this looks great.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

Quote:

"If you give yourself to Him, and accept Him as your Saviour, then, sinful as your life may have been, for His sake you are accounted righteous. Christ’s character stands in place of your character, and you are accepted before God just as if you had not sinned." CSA 30

You have taken commentary on "justification" and presented it as commentary on "sanctification".

Mark

Unfortunately far too many claim that they are both required for salvation. Thus .... one would be equal to the other. Are you saying that sanctification is not required for justification?

[Just*]

Just, Where did you get this writing by E.J. Waggoner? Is it online somewhere? I have some Jones and Waggoner books here somewhere but I can't find them.

Articles on Romans

by E.J. Waggoner

Chapter 8

-------------------------

[Guest]

That "far to many" would include Ellen White and the Bible.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

Just, Where did you get this writing by E.J. Waggoner? Is it online somewhere? I have some Jones and Waggoner books here somewhere but I can't find them.

Articles on Romans

by E.J. Waggoner

Chapter 8

-------------------------

Thanks a lot Just*

[Guest]

What wonderful websites

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

You have taken commentary on "justification" and presented it as commentary on "sanctification".

Mark [/quote']

Unfortunately far too many claim that they are both required for salvation. Thus .... one would be equal to the other. Are you saying that sanctification is not required for justification?

No, I am saying that you have taken what Ellen White commented on when talking about Justification and tried to apply it to Sanctification.

Which is wresting the original usage to fit your viewpoint.

Mark

[Guest]

Unfortunately far too many claim that they are both required for salvation. Thus .... one would be equal to the other. Are you saying that sanctification is not required for justification?

The too many you refer to would include EGW, and the Bible.

[Twilight]

So...

Back to the merits (diverted by the obligatory attacks).

What do the "merits of Christ's" "works" mean for us in our life?

Mark :-)

[Woody]

The merits of Christ are ALL that we need. Our merits are as filthy rags.

No matter how much sanctification one has .... it is worthless towards salvation.

Christ is ALL . He is ALL I need.

[Twilight]

The merits of Christ are ALL that we need. Our merits are as filthy rags.

No matter how much sanctification one has .... it is worthless towards salvation.

Christ is ALL . He is ALL I need.

Do you need sanctification at all then?

[Just*]

"Now another point: "There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." People say, "I have taken Christ and now I look back and trace my life history through the day or the week and I cannot see anything but imperfection in what I have done and then the feeling of condemnation comes over me and I can't stand free. How can I say, There is no condemnation for me, when I see these failures?" This is a subtle deception of Satan, to deprive us of acceptance and peace with God. Do we expect to be justified by those deeds? If we do, we make a grand mistake in the beginning. "By the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight." To Jesus we must look for our justification and to Him alone.

Says one, "I am afraid that I will fall." You need not be afraid. Paul says, "I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day." 2 Timothy 1:12. What have I committed unto Him? My life, and He is able to keep it.

When we get over into the kingdom of God, we will not look to the best deeds that we have done and thank God that we are justified because we have done so well. But our song of joy will be, "Unto Him that loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood." Let us look to Him continually! But when we take our eyes from Him and go into sin, He is not responsible for that.

Just as long as we keep looking at Him, there is no condemnation. Try it, and you will know that it is a fact, for it is a fact that there is no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus."

WAGGONER

[Woody]

Not for salvation. Salvation was a done deal at the cross. Having said that .... sanctification is something that ALL have. It is impossible not to have it. If you doubt this ... name one person who has not received sanctification.

[Twilight]

Not for salvation. Salvation was a done deal at the cross. Having said that .... sanctification is something that ALL have. It is impossible not to have it. If you doubt this ... name one person who has not received sanctification.

Are you saying all people have received sanctification?

Everyone in the world?

[Woody]

Yes. Now I think we are getting somewhere.

[skyblue888]

Yes. Now I think we are getting somewhere.

You got that right Red, to a place called hell, eventually! eternal death!

sky

[Twilight]

Yes. Now I think we are getting somewhere.

I would like Redwood to clarify this belief.

It is not one I recognise as an Adventist position.

Are you saying Redwood that you think ALL will be saved?

Everyone in the world who has ever lived?

Saved into eternal life?

[John317]

Not for salvation. Salvation was a done deal at the cross. Having said that .... sanctification is something that ALL have. It is impossible not to have it. If you doubt this ... name one person who has not received sanctification.

Could you explain?

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

Not for salvation. Salvation was a done deal at the cross. Having said that .... sanctification is something that ALL have. It is impossible not to have it. If you doubt this ... name one person who has not received sanctification.

Could you explain?

By "all" I think he means all believers....You see the moment we accept the righteousness of Christ as ours that moment we stand "justified, sanctified, and glorified in Christ Jesus."

Now, as we remain "in Christ" by faith, He remains "in us" and therefore we begin to experience justification & sanctification. Justification is being just before the law "in Christ"....It gives us assurance and peace with God.

Sanctification, in a nut shell, is becoming less selfish....There's less of that "bent to self" in our lives as we mature....As EGW said, "there will be less self-seeking"...less love of self. I see this agape in my life, (of course you guys tend to see my nature here and there) teehe but when compared to Christ, man I am a wretched sinner...but nevertheless I experience it.....

Glorification is when I receive my new life from Christ at the resurrection....It will be free from "iniquity"....It will be fully in harmony with God....It will measure with the life of God. That's when we can actually say "we have no sin".

Rob

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: John317

Could you explain?

By "all" I think he means all believers....You see the moment we accept the righteousness of Christ as ours that moment we stand "justified' date=' sanctified, and glorified in Christ Jesus."

Now, as we remain "in Christ" by faith, He remains "in us" and therefore we begin to experience justification & sanctification. Justification is being just before the law "in Christ"....It gives us assurance and peace with God.

Sanctification, in a nut shell, is becoming less selfish....There's less of that "bent to self" in our lives as we mature....As EGW said, "there will be less self-seeking"...less love of self. I see this agape in my life, (of course you guys tend to see my nature here and there) teehe but when compared to Christ, man I am a wretched sinner...but nevertheless I experience it.....

Glorification is when I receive my new life from Christ at the resurrection....It will be free from "iniquity"....It will be fully in harmony with God....It will measure with the life of God. That's when we can actually say "we have no sin".

Rob

[/quote']

I would like Redwood to clarify this. :-)

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Could you explain?

By "all" I think he means all believers....You see the moment we accept the righteousness of Christ as our that moment we stand "justified' date=' sanctified, and glorified in Christ Jesus." Now, as we remain "in Christ" by faith, He remains "in us" and therefore we begin to experience justification & sanctification. Justification is being just before the law "in Christ"....It gives us assurance and peace with God. Sanctification, in a nut shell, is becoming less selfish....There's less of that "bent to self" in our lives as we mature....

[/quote']

I'm in general agreement with you, but it seems to me that Redwood is saying "all have" sanctification, which would include those who never accepted the righteousness of Christ.

[Robert]

I would like Redwood to clarify this. :-)

Redwood, use this:

1 Cor 1:30 But of Him [God] you are in Christ Jesus,

You see, at the incarnation God put you into Christ. He did this by mysteriously combining the Deity of Christ with our corporate humanity (the one we all share with Adam) that needed redeeming.

who became for us wisdom from God--and justification (some versions use "righteousness") and sanctification and redemption [glorification]--

There's the truth! "In Christ" we have a humanity that has been justified, sanctified, and glorified. Hence "in Him" we are complete. That's what saves....

[Guest]

Has anybody seen Redwood?

[Robert]

Has anybody seen Redwood?

I thought I was Redwood? teehe

Anyway, to me here's the complete truth wrapped up in two statements:

Eph 2:1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.

4 But because of his great love [agape] for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

John 15:3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.