Woody Posted August 16, 2009 Author Posted August 16, 2009 Quote: So the problem is us, not Gods power. Well said ... yes. We are sinners in a sinful world. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
wayfinder Posted August 16, 2009 Posted August 16, 2009 Revelation 3:21 `He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. We must overcome in the same manner and the same things that He overcame. He did not overcome for us, He set an example for us to follow so we could overcome. He gives this right to those who overcome as He overcame to sit on the throne of God. Did the Son of God overcome by faith through grace, no, He overcame by obedience to the truth and doing the will of His Father. Mt 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Joh 6:38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. Quote
Musicman1228 Posted August 16, 2009 Posted August 16, 2009 Did Jesus Christ NEED to have faith in God as being His Father? If He did need faith then He was not Himself God. Jesus knew from age 12 exactly who He was, He had no need for faith. If we are to "be like Jesus" then should we not move from our early faith (where everyone begins) which got us started on the road to truth to the knowledge and understanding of the truth such that we also KNOW who our Father is? Wayfinder, you are exactly right. Quote
Guest Posted August 16, 2009 Posted August 16, 2009 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. Hab 2:4 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. Mat 8:10 Jesus thought faith was a good thing. Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this.....Mat 21:21 Quote
Members phkrause Posted August 16, 2009 Members Posted August 16, 2009 Some very good quotes Richard. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Guest Posted August 16, 2009 Posted August 16, 2009 Thank you pkrause, Why would anybody want to do away with faith? Quote
Members phkrause Posted August 16, 2009 Members Posted August 16, 2009 Without Faith we have nothing to grasp onto. I think or believe that most things we do, read see are based on faith. I have never seen Abraham Lincoln so by faith I believe that the history books etc. are true. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Moderators Gerr Posted August 17, 2009 Moderators Posted August 17, 2009 Will we ever be fully like Jesus? A copy can never equal the original. A better question would be: Is it possible for God to give us victory as He did Jesus. We know the answer is yes. So the problem is us, not Gods power. ---------------- That leaves two options. 1. Claim victory is impossible and carry on sinning. 2. Seek and pursue righteouness. Or here's another option: Could we have the faith of Jesus such that we could be so settled in our belief/commitment to God that NOTHING can shake us out? "Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus." Quote
Robert Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 "Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus." That's the last generation of Christians during the tribulation....They given up all, homes, jobs, everything for the sake of Christ....They are 100% God dependent....Hence, they loved not their lives even unto death....These are the 144,000....However, even though they've come to the place of full maturity, 1] It doesn't save, 2] They won't know it..... Quote
Guest Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 [1] It doesn't save, 2] They won't know it..... But they can't be saved without it. Quote
Robert Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert [1] It doesn't save, 2] They won't know it..... But they can't be saved without it. Wrong! Quote
Guest Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 No they couldn't you cheap grace propagandist Quote
Robert Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 No they couldn't you cheap grace propagandist Grace isn't cheap....Ever since the fall God has worked and worked to save fallen man....And then on the cross God, through Christ, reconciled the world (the human race) to Himself .... Nothing cheap there...but legalism, that's cheap...it cheapens the atonement..... Quote
Guest Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 You make it cheap If they could get there without those things, then why don't they? Quote
Robert Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 You make it cheap If they could get there without those things, then why don't they? You are deceived into thinking your works make you good enough to go to heaven. You are saved by the imputed righteousness of Christ, period! If you think you can add to His perfect righteousness, well, go join your Catholic friends... Quote
Guest Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Works won't save you, but they can cause you to be lost. Quote
LifeHiscost Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 That leaves two options. 1. Claim victory is impossible and carry on sinning. 2. Seek and pursue righteouness. Mark Good show brother. Maybe this is that which Redwood was referring. "Then I saw all the work of God, that man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun--because however much a man may toil in seeking, yet he will not find it out; yes, more than that, though a wise man thinks and claims he knows, yet will he not be able to find it out."Ecclesiastes 8:17 AMP Blessings! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Did Jesus Christ NEED to have faith in God as being His Father? If He did need faith then He was not Himself God. Jesus knew from age 12 exactly who He was, He had no need for faith. If we are to "be like Jesus" then should we not move from our early faith (where everyone begins) which got us started on the road to truth to the knowledge and understanding of the truth such that we also KNOW who our Father is? Wayfinder, you are exactly right. If you are right, Musicman, then this Scripture needs more explanation. Maybe you have some insight. "Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people." Hebrews 2:16 NKJV Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Robert Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Works won't save you, but they can cause you to be lost. Your works indicate the type of gospel accepted....Works of law will prove one's faith a sham...works of faith will prove one's faith....not his goodness... Quote
LifeHiscost Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Without Faith we have nothing to grasp onto. I think or believe that most things we do, read see are based on faith. I have never seen Abraham Lincoln so by faith I believe that the history books etc. are true. pk "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. "Hebrews 11:6 NIV Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Moderators John317 Posted August 17, 2009 Moderators Posted August 17, 2009 Did Jesus Christ NEED to have faith in God as being His Father? If He did need faith then He was not Himself God. Jesus knew from age 12 exactly who He was, He had no need for faith. Jesus said, "I can of my own self do nothing." He was totally dependent upon the Father for everything, and he only knew as much as His Father revealed to Him. He didn't know from one day to the next what was going to happen except as God showed Him and as He learned from the prophecies. He also depended on power from God to resist and overcome Satan. That's why He often spent all night in prayer. Jesus Christ was God but He was also man. The pre-incarnate, self-existent Word became flesh. He was a true man and as such He depended on God as all humans depend on God. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
LifeHiscost Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 You are saved by the imputed righteousness of Christ, period! Then why would Jesus add this? "...Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption"1 Corinthians 1:29-31 NKJV If Jesus gave us justification only, as needed, why did He find it necessary to provide righteousness and sanctification and redemption? Regarded! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Robert Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert You are saved by the imputed righteousness of Christ, period! Then why would Jesus add this? "...Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption"1 Corinthians 1:29-31 NKJV If Jesus gave us justification only, as needed, why did He find it necessary to provide righteousness and sanctification and redemption? "In Christ" we have all 3 things: justification, sanctification and glorification. That's the imputed righteousness of Christ. Proof? Okay: Justification: Romans 5:18 "So then as through one transgression [Adam's] there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness [Christ's] there resulted justification of life to all men." Sanctification: Hebrews 10:9 "Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God." ... 10 By that will [His doing & dying] we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Glorification: Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love [agape] with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus....Col 1:13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins." Quote
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