The Heart of the 1888 Message

[Woody]

The big challenge is to get you to be able to understand properly what she is saying. That is the work of my life time. And I am already gettin' weary.

[skyblue888]

The big challenge is to get you to be able to understand properly what she is saying. That is the work of my life time. And I am already gettin' weary.

Red please be serious Everyone here knows that you keep teaching that we will never stop sinning, period. You keep saying that God is able to keep us from sinning but then you go on saying that the problem with us is that we will never "use" the power. Is that not what you teach constantly? have you not said repeatedly that you sin and that you will continue to sin until Jesus returns?

If we teach this we are no longer seventh-day adventists because to be a bona fide seventh-day adventist means that we believe that the grace of God is imparted to keep us from falling and that during the latter rain we will grow up into Christ until our characters reflect His fully. This means that we will be overcoming as Jesus overcame and then He will make the final atonement, probation will close and He will keep us in the time of trouble and He will come to take us home.

I believe that the big problem is not so much about understanding what the testimonies are saying but about not accepting what they are saying. That has always been the problem.

sky

[skyblue888]

These quotes are all well and good. I have no disagreement with them when properly understood. We are to stop sinning. Christ came not to destroy but to fulfill the Law. It is the curse of the Law that was fulfilled In Christ. We are to obey but when we sin we have an advocate with the Father.

And what helps to keep us from sinning? The Holy Spirit.

You say you have no disagreement with that statement and yet in your heart of heart you know very well that you do not agree with what it says because it is a fact that you have on many occasions stated in one way or another that our characters will be changed at the coming of Christ. Every seventh-day adventist should know that anyone who teaches this is no longer a seventh-day adventist or never has been one.

It is not me who teaches differently from what adventism stands for. I challenge you to prove otherwise. What I believe and teach on character perfection is in full harmony with what the pioneers and the testimonies teach in the light of the sanctuary doctrine which sets us apart from all the other churches.

If we were to follow what you are teaching, we would have no reason to remain seventh-day adventists and we could join any of the sunday-keeping churches because what you teach is exactly what they teach.

sky

[Guest]

You have spoken the truth

[skyblue888]

You have spoken the truth

Amen Richard! It is good when two brothers see eye to eye! See Isaiah 52:8.

After all, what we are discussing here is the foundation and central pillar of the Advent Movement. Anyone who does not understand or teach that before Christ can make the final atonement for the living righteous, that their characters must be reflecting Christ fully as a result of having received the Holy Spirit in latter rain power, cannot be said to be a bonafide seventh-day adventist.

"As the members of the body of Christ approach the period of their last conflict, 'the time of Jacob's trouble,' they will grow up into Christ, and will partake largely of His Spirit. As the third message swells to a loud cry, and as great power and glory attend the closing work, the faithful people of God will partake of that glory. It is the latter rain which revives and strengthens them to pass through the time of trouble. Their faces will shine with the glory of that light which attends the third angel." Testimnonies, Vol.1, p.353.

And in Testimononies to Ministers, pp.93,92 and 506 Mrs. White presents this special light of the third angel is clear, distinct lines!

Should we go over it again? What do u think?

sky

[skyblue888]

This morning i typed a series of posts to the 1888messagestudyyahoogroups,,, in response to some of their posts,,, sad to say, every time they post something in regard to the 1888 message they have a lot of good things to say about the message and yet never being able to tell us what that message was even though Mrs. White told us it was just as simple as accepting the alphabet. So I thought i would share five or six posts with you in reply to theirs.

Post # 1

There is really no need to be beating around the bush as to what the 1888 message is. That message is simple, just as simple as accepting the alphabet. Here it is in clear, distinct lines:

"Unless we make it our life business to behold the uplifted Savior and to accept the merits which it is our privilege to claim, we can no more be saved than Peter could walk upon the water unless he kept his eyes fixed steadily upon Jesus." T.M.93.

This statement is found under the subtitle REJECTING THE LIGHT in Testimonies to Ministers. Mrs. White here is talking about the light of the 1888 message.

Did not the Lord make that message clear and simple? Unless we daily look to Jesus and appropriate His merits to ourselves by claiming them, we cannot benefit or find comfort and satisfaction from the plan of salvation. See 1 S.M.364,354.

Therefore, "The only faith that will benefit us is that which embraces Him as a personal Savior: which appropriates His merits to ourselves." D.A.347; F.W.65,66,64, 100,101.

"How long will you hate and despise the messengers of God's righteousness? God has given them His message. They bear the word of the Lord: There is salvation for you but only through the merits of Jesus Christ. The grace of the Holy Spirit has been offered to you again and again." T.M.96,97.

sky

From the 1888messagestudyyahoogroups:

What was the 1888 Message?

Jones’ and Waggoner’s messages at the 1888 Conference itself were not reproduced in the Bulletin, as in later years. But that does not mean that the "most precious message" Ellen White endorsed so enthusiastically is lost to us. The Lord loves us more than to give the "beginning" of the Latter Rain only to let it slip through the fingers of undiscerning brethren, and to disappear forever. It is possible to "gather up the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost." Several facts must be noted:

Ellen White did not identify only the actual 1888 Conference presentations as "the beginning" of the Loud Cry. Her well-known November 22, 1892, statement includes presentations of the "messengers" since the Conference:

The time of test is just upon us, for the loud cry of the third angel has already begun in the revelation of the righteousness of Christ, the sin-pardoning Redeemer. This is the beginning of the light of the angel whose glory shall fill the whole earth.1

Further, Ellen White’s enthusiastic endorsements of their ongoing message extended through 1896, even into 1897. In 1889 she supported "this light which these men [Jones and Waggoner] are presenting"2 and said that "the very message the Lord has sent to His people at this time" is being presented in their "discourses. "3 "The present message—justification by faith—is a message from God; it bears the divine credentials, for its fruit is unto holiness."4 In 1890 she spoke of "the evidences given in the past two years of the dealings of God by His chosen servants, . . . whom God is using."5 In 1892 she continued, "God is working through these instrumentalities. . . . The message given us by A.T. Jones and E.J. Waggoner is a message of God to the Laodicean church."6 In 1893 she exulted that "light and freedom and the outpouring of the Spirit of God has attended the work" of Jones.7 In 1895 she spoke frequently of how "God has given them [the two messengers] His message. They bear the word of the Lord. . . . These men . . . have been as signs in the world, . . . moved by the Spirit of God. . . . Christ’s delegated messengers." 8 "God has upheld them, . . . He has given them precious light, and their message has fed the people of God."9 As late as 1896 she said that "he who rejects the light and evidence God has been liberally bestowing upon us, rejects Christ."10 Scattered over the years, these endorsements number close to three hundred!

There is no indication in her writings to suggest that Jones and Waggoner corrupted the 1888 message or departed from the truth at this time. While we cannot claim for them (or anyone else) "perfection" in every detail,11 her multiplied and enthusiastic endorsements of their message clearly indicate that she regarded its essential elements as thoroughly correct. Her support of their message is unprecedented in her long career; if her mature judgment and discernment were faulty here, her entire lifework must suffer as to credibility. We can be sure that as long as the Lord’s servant continued pleading for acceptance of their message, so long at least their message remained valid. The Lord would never appeal to His people to eat spoiled fruit.

The Essentials of the Jones-Waggoner Message

[Guest]

Excellent. That's the kind of posts I was hoping for when I started this thread.

[skyblue888]

Excellent. That's the kind of posts I was hoping for when I started this thread.

Great!

I have read and studied brother Wieland's writings in regard to the 1888 message and I must say that there are a lot of interesting things he wrote but I am afraid that our brother (including those who are on the committee) has totally missed out on the heart and essence of the 1888 message as I have told him personally many times in my correspondence with him.

The message is clear and distinct as Mrs. White stated on pages 92 and 93 of Testimonies to Ministers. Many had lost sight of Jesus. They needed to have their eyes directed to His divine Person, to His merits, and to His changeless love for the human family. See p.92.

"The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36. Does this not mean that in order to obtain all the blessings of the covenant of grace, pardon and peace and light and joy in the Holy Spirit, we must believe what that statement says implicitly and act upon it? "Present your case before God pleading the merits of the blood shed for you upon Calvary's cross." F.W.106.

Mrs. White stated that that message was just as simple as ABC. Is it not? In the devotional book Our Father Cares, p.120, we read something to the effect that "As we acknowledge before God our appreciation of Christ's merits, fragrance is given to our intercessions. As we approach God through the virtue of the Redeemer's merits, Christ places us close by His side, encircling us with His human arm, while with His divine arm He grasps the throne of the Infinite. He puts His merits as sweet incense in the censor in our hands, in order to encourage our petitions."

Thus the merits of Jesus are applied to our hearts and we are greatly blessed, greatly blessed with the gift of the Holy Spirit. This is the gift that cannot be excelled and which brings all other blessings in its train!

Mrs. White stated that this gift is worthy of Christ's greatness and majesty: The Third Person of the Godhead! Thus we are clothed with the robe of righteousness woven in the loom of Heaven and we are made partakers of Christ's divine nature, a nature far above that which Adam and Eve forfeited by transgression and thus we are enabled to keep every precept of the law of God. It is thus and thus only that the law of God can be restored to its rightful position into our hearts and only then can it be said that the law of God is magnified and made honorable.

"Take hold by faith of the merits of Christ and the soul-cleansing blood will be applied." F.W.94.

"When we seek to gain Heaven through the merits of Christ, the soul makes progress... we may go on from strength to strength and from victory to victory." F.W.94.

sky

[Guest]

Amen I say

[Guest]

I got the link to wieland from a sight that you gave me the link to.

I got the link at 1888 Most precious message.

[skyblue888]

what's the link again?

[skyblue888]

The 1888 message and the atonement.

"The intercession of Christ in our behalf is that of presenting His divine merits in the offering of Himself to the Father as our substitute and surety; for He ascended up on High to make atonement for our transgressions. " F.W.105; Signs of the Times, July 4, 1892.

See how simple the 1888 message is: It states that in our behalf Jesus is presenting His divine merits to the Father and by doing this He succeeds. Will we not succeed if we too present our case before God pleading His divine merits in our behalf? Is this not what the 1888 message admonishes the people to do? "Present your case before God pleading the merits of the blood shed for you upon Calvary's cross." F.W.106. The message also stated that it was our only plea if we were to be forgiven and clothed with the robe of Christ's righteousness in order that we may be enabled to keep the law according to the will of God.

Christ's death upon the cross fulfilled the condition for the atonement.

"Christ's sacrifice in behalf of man was full and complete. The condition for the atonement has been fulfilled." A.A.29

His death upon the cross was not the atonement itself but the condition for it. Then He ascended up on High and "God Himself bowed in acceptance of the sacrifice." "God bowed His head satisfied." F.W.72; 5 B.C.1150.

Then Christ began His ministry in the first apartment pleading His divine merits for the human race but especially for those who believe, claiming the gift of the Holy Spirit that He may pour it upon them. For "He has turned the merits of His sacrifice into prayer. Jesus prays and by prayer succeeds." MS 8, 1892.

In 1844 He passed from the first apartment to the second apartment of the sanctuary above to begin the work of investigative judgement, still pleading the merits of His infinite sacrifice in behalf of the human race but especially in behalf of those who believe that the grace of the Holy Spirit can keep them from falling as they come to God trusting wholly in the merits the blood shed for them upon Calvary's cross, the merits of the blood that is of value beyond estimate because it was the life of God in His Son. See F.W.22.

Those who receive, believe, and act upon this present truth are forgiven and clothed with the panoply of Heaven and as long as they continue in this faith, they are enabled to keep every precept of the law of God, for the love of God is shed abroad in their hearts. Rom.5:5; 13:10. They are fortified. How? The angels of God are around them as a wall of fire and the righteousness of Christ goes before them and the glory of God is their rearward. Thus they are prepared for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit in large measure. During the latter rain, the people of God will grow up into Christ until the full corn of His character is in the ear. Then Jesus will make the final atonement for them and probation will close. See 1 T 353 and Testimonies to Ministers, p.506ff.

sky

"Lord I have no goodness or merit within whereby I may claim salvation, but I present before You the all-sufficient merits of the all-atoning blood of the spotless Lamb of God. This is my only plea."

[Guest]

Here's the link sky:

http://www.1888message.org/

[skyblue888]

ha okay Richard, thanks.

Still not telling us what exactly that message was! (see post below mine)

Here it is again:

"Oh, be so full of the message that it is like fire shut up in your bones, that you cannot hold your peace. It is true, men will say, 'You are too excited; you are making too much of this matter, and you do not think enough of the law; now, you are to think more of the law; don't be all the time reaching for this righteousness of Christ, but build up the law.'

Let the law take care of itself. We have been at work on the law until we get as dry as the hills of Gilboa, without dew or rain. Let us trust in the merits of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. May God help us that our eyes may be anointed with eyesalve that we may see." E.G. White, 1888 Materials, Vol.2, p.557.

This statement says it all. It is the 1888 message in a nutshell. Notice the source of that statement, the 1888 Materials! By simply trusting in the merits of Christ His righteousness is brought into the life and thus the demands of the law are satisfied for we are enabled to keep it.

This is why in another place she stated that we must daily apply to the merits of the blood of Christ that we may become vessels fit for the Master's use. See F.W.86.

sky

"Looking unto Jesus and trusting in His merits, we appropriate the blessings of light and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." 5 T 744. "

"How long will you hate and despise the messengers of God's righteousness? God has given them His message. They bear the word of the Lord: There is salvation for you but only through the merits of Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit has been offered to you again and again." T.M.96,97.

____________________________________

From the1888messagestudy@yahoogroups.com

The "Beginning" of the Fourth Angel’s Message

Jones’ and Waggoner’s message was "good news" of deliverance from sin, an "easy" conquest by faith of the only remaining hurdle between God’s people and entering their Promised Land. Ellen White soon recognized it as the "beginning" of the long-awaited "Loud Cry" that is to lighten the earth with glory:

The time of test is just upon us, for the loud cry of the third angel has already begun in the revelation of Christ, the sin-pardoning Redeemer. This is the beginning of the light of the angel whose glory shall fill the whole earth.7

Frequently she referred to the message as the initial outpouring of the Latter Rain of the Holy Spirit.8 As a farmer’s crops need rain if the harvest is to come, so the Latter Rain is to ripen the "grain" and prepare "for the sickle." This is "the completion of the work of God’s grace in the soul … that prepares the church for the coming of the Son of man."9 And Satan’s slanderous charges against God can never be silenced and the "great controversy" resolved for the government of God, until His people receive this "completion" of grace "in the soul." Ellen White and the 1888 messengers spoke openly and frankly about getting ready for "translation" then and there.10

She also said that Israel’s "leading men" refused the message so that it was shut "away from our people in a great measure" and "by the action of our own [leading] brethren has been in a great degree kept away from the world."11 God’s plan was to give the message first to the leadership; they were to give it to the laity; and the church unitedly was to give it to the world.12

Had the purpose of God been carried out in giving the message of mercy to the world, Christ would have come, and the saints would have received their welcome into the city of God.13

Like Israel’s history at Kadesh-Barnea, can any aspect of our history be more important than our preparation for the sealing, our reception of the Latter Rain, and giving of the Loud Cry, and a preparation for the coming of Christ?

Why Was This History So Long Neglected?

[skyblue888]

Yes, something will have to give,,, that is, our pride,,, our foolish resistance to the simple message of the merits and righteousness of Christ. (see post below mine) It has become next to impossible for the Lord to teach us this most simple and yet most precious truth:

"The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.

this is the truth that we have resisted in 1888 and it is still resisted today.

This is the key that unlocks all the treasures of God's grace.

"Only the merits and righteousness of Christ will be recognized. But this is placed in our account in rich fullness. We may draw upon God every moment. God has pledged Himself to open before us all the riches of His grace." E.G. White, Our Father Cares, p.149.

On May 11, 1889, Mrs. White spoke of "the faith that lays right hold upon the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Savior to bring Christ's righteousness into your life. Clothed with the righteousness of Christ and not your own righteousness you will not depend upon what you can do or what you will do... " for "Christ's righteousness accomplishes everything." See F.W.65,66,27.

Thus "The law of the human and the divine action makes the receiver a laborer together with God. It brings man where he can, united with divinity, work the works of God. Humanity touches humanity. Divine power and the human agency combined will be a complete success for Christ's righteousness accomplishes everything." F.W.27.

sky

_____________________________________________________

From the1888messagestudy@yahoogroups.com

The "Alpha" and the "Omega"

As a result of rejecting truth in the 1888 message, we became vulnerable to being deceived by clever error.92 The pantheism heresy of the early years of this century was an "iceberg" that almost sank the good ship Zion.93 Inspiration identified it as the "alpha" of Satan’s long list of deceptions that were to culminate in a future "omega" error of frightening power."94 In fact, our constant tendency ever since the "alpha" has been to seek "light and power" from non-Seventh- day Adventist sources in understanding and communicating the gospel.95 Inevitably, confusion has followed. Undoubtedly we shall soon face highly sophisticated temptations to import a "holy spirit" from the popular churches, whose Pentecostalism is sweeping the world and enticing our own pastors, conference leaders, and writers in periodicals with visions of great "church growth." Ellen White’s counsels make disturbing reading in the light of this current enthusiasm.96

The truth of Seventh-day Adventist history does not indicate that the Lord has (or will) cast off His people. "The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out—the chaff separated from the precious wheat."97

But the present deadlock cannot go on forever. Something will have to "give": either the conviction that "the Lord has led us, and His teaching in our past history"98 (which this author refuses to surrender); or that the church has ceased to be the agent which the Lord will employ in finishing His work on earth99 (again, this author refuses to accept this solution); or we shall have to surrender our spiritual pride, and let our "glory" be laid "in the dust" by accepting the full truth of the Lord’s "teaching in our past history."

This will be genuine justification by faith.

Read Section Two—What Was the 1888 Message?

[Ted Oplinger]

Thanks for the link, Richard.

This is a subject that has been my study sever since I saw books on the subject a couple of years after I was baptized.

From time to time, I've tried to preach the message, and it always went flat. Like it wasn't time yet.

Just got through preaching the definition of faith as found in the 1888 message (for the fifth time)...and got a VERY different response. Time will tell with the next few sermons.

It might be time to start gather Israel together into one body again. We are entering "interesting times" as we sojourn through this world.

A comment about the continuing to sin bit...

What came immediately to my mind was 1 John 2:1, 2. From the context, I read that John is telling us not sinning is the Christian norm we are to present. Needing the Advocate in case we sin is the safety net...not to be the continuing experience. Sooner or later, Christ expects us to walk with Him without the need of the net.

Not because we can, but because He does walk without the net.

When He comes, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

His merits power our walk, not our willpower.

It is often quiped we sin because we're only human. We should flip that around - we walk obediently because we're only human - as human as Christ is today.

Heading off to look up that link, and to chase down some other references made in the course of discussion.

Ted

[Ted Oplinger]

Now we're talking Alpha and Omega now....Alpha's known history.

Think of the most devious way the 3rd Angel's message in verity can be twisted in both the religous and political worlds of the US today...take it up an order of magnitude or two, throw in popularity with the Adventist clergy and rank 'n file...and you've got the Omega identified.

One tough beast to beat...but EG White says the the Remnant will win out.

[Guest]

Ted, I am glad you are preaching on this subject, and I think the time is right. I wish you were in my area so I could come and hear you preach.

These links are better I think:

http://www.1888mpm.org/

http://www.sdabol.org/sbhn/1888/

http://www.hidden-treasures.ca/eng.html

[skyblue888]

why not take a look at wwww.hidden-treasures.ca as well... :)

[Twilight]

why not take a look at wwww.hidden-treasures.ca as well...

I can sincerely recommend the two booklets:

"What must I do to be saved."

"Faith which works by love."

Both have had a deep impact on my Christian walk.

Mark

[Just*]

http://www.1888mpm.org/

http://www.sdabol.org/sbhn/1888/

http://www.hidden-treasures.ca/eng.html

http://www.scripturefirst.net/fredfiles.htm

http://dedication.www3.50megs.com/1888/1888index.html

http://www.1888msc.org/article.php?id=17

[Guest]

Thanks Just*

[Woody]

Quote:

When He comes, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

Amen. I long to see His Face. What a transforming experience. What a miracle of transformation.

Quote:

Through the merits of the Redeemer, God accepts the efforts of sinful man in keeping His law, which is holy,just and good" Sons and Daughters of God p. 41

"It is God's design to restore that similitude by giving to man victory over sin and over every temptation. The restoration will be completed at the second coming." 7BC 649

"Perfection now is ours only in Christ, but the ultimate, all-comprehensive transformation of our lives into the image of God will take place at the Second Advent ...

Neither Christlike character traits nor faultess behaviour is the ground of our acceptance with God. Saving righteourness comes from the one righteous Man Jesus and is conveyed to us by the Holy Spirit. We can contribute nothing to Christ's gift of righteousness - we can only receive it. No one other than Christ is righteous; independent human righteousness is only filthy rags. " Seventh-Day Adventists Believe p. 145-6

"If you give yourself to Him, and accept Him as your Saviour, then, sinful as your life may have been, for His sake you are accounted righteous. Christ’s character stands in place of your character, and you are accepted before God just as if you had not sinned." CSA 30

[skyblue888]

Yes God still desires to do great things for and through His people. But we need no longer speculate as to how He will accomplish this wonderful through those who forsake their own way and accept His way:

"Jesus looked forward to the time when the Holy Spirit, His representative, would come to do a wonderful work in and through His merits and He felt privileged to communicate His relief to His disciples." T.M.402.

This was written for us upon whom the ends of the ages are come. Will we listen this time? Hearken unto Me My people! Hearken unto the voice of Him whose word can renew the soul unto everlasting life: "They bear the word of the Lord: There is salvation for you but only through the merits of Jesus Christ. the Holy Spirit (Christ's relief) has been offered to you again and again." T.M.97.

sky

From the 1888messagestudy@yahoogroups.com

The Return of the Fourth Angel ----

The Significance of 1888 ----

Seventh-day Adventists have long recognized that God desired to do great things for and through them.

After the disappointment of 1844,a small group of about fifty souls restudied the prophecies and began to share the truths that had been revealed to them. They dared to believe they had a message, that somehow, the entire world must hear. On the masthead of The Advent Review and Sabbath Herald was to be found a picture of a globe with the words, "The Field is the World" upon a banner circling the globe.

Today, God still wants to do great things for and with His people; far greater than we have ever dreamed of, or have attempted. Sadly, many of us do nothing but wait and hope because we fail to recognize God's purpose for us and fail to fully recognize the significance of the time in which we live...

Clayton

[Ted Oplinger]

Thank you, Richard and Just.

All links are saved into the Favs. list. Found the 1888mpm site while exploring a previous link. Very good stuff.

Now, my wife will be upset - I have so much more reading material (and corresponding Bible cross-referencing) set in front of me! She says I study too much as it is...

Reading more here tomorrow...

Ted