Sin destroy's itself...

[LifeHiscost]

But has He removed immortality from Satan MM?

Mark :-)

"....which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen."

1 Timothy 6:15-17 NKJV

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

Here we see the very same principles at work, principles of "kindness, mercy, and love.

Seems to me, those gifts of the Spirit are reserved for the those willing to exercise them, themselves.

"And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them"Deuteronomy 7:2 KJV

" For it was of the LORD to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that He might utterly destroy them, and that they might receive no mercy, but that He might destroy them, as the LORD had commanded Moses."Joshua 11:20 KJV

"I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee"1 Chronicles 17:13 KJV

"For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy"James 2:13 KJV

"For to him who has shown no mercy the judgment [will be] merciless, but mercy [full of glad confidence] exults victoriously over judgment."

James 2:13 AMP

Blessings!

[John317]

Excellent. I agree with what he says. Thanks for posting it.

Very interesting. Quotes George Storrs. He was a prominent Millerite preacher who wrote books on the state of the dead that influenced many Adventists to accept the doctrine of the non-immortality of the soul. Bates and James White already believed in it but they also read his writings on it. As it happened, Storrs' writings also influenced Charles Taze Russell, who founded the Jehovah Witnesses.

[Guest]

You're welcome, and the pacifists are welcome to watch it as well.

[LifeHiscost]

Did God put an evil spirit upon Saul?

"But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him."

1 Samuel 16:14 KJV

"And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee."1 Samuel 16:15

KJV

Unless you're willing to write your own script, in a word, yes.

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

We were in agreement right up until you said "the sins of the Kingdom of Heaven" There are no sins in the Kingdom of Heaven. To say such a thing is blasphemy.

Not wishing to muddy the waters, but at one time it does appear there was sin in the kingdom of heaven, and if Lucifer was still part of that kingdom perhaps we could say for the sake of argument, sins of the kingdom of heaven.

"Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire."Ezekiel 28:14-16 KJV

Which Scripture also says they are the reason God will be the One Who destroys Satan in the end.

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

those that choose to become members of the Kingdom of Heaven at that time become the bride. Those that don't are eventually thrown into the Lake of Fire with Satan, where they are destroyed forever.

Who threw them into the lake of fire?

Blessings!

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Musicman1228

those that choose to become members of the Kingdom of Heaven at that time become the bride. Those that don't are eventually thrown into the Lake of Fire with Satan, where they are destroyed forever.

Who threw them into the lake of fire?

Yesterday I took the time to look closely at all of Jesus' parables having to do with what finally happens to the wicked.

Every single parable of Jesus that touches on the topic teaches that God destroys the wicked. His parables never say that the wicked kill each other or that they commit suicide. They are consistently "cast out," "thrown into the fire of gehenna," "burned up," "thrown into the furnace of fire," "thrown into outer darkness," "cut in pieces," "tortured," "rejected," "go away into eternal punishment," "condemned," etc.

I would ask everyone to study all the parables of Christ.

1) Matt. 8: 12-- "cast out into outer darkness." (Compare Matt. 13: 42, 50)

Obviously God does the "casting."

2) Matt. 13: 30, 40. The landowner orders his servants to gather the tares and "burn them up" at the time of the harvest.

3) Matt. 13: 42-- tares are thrown into the furnace of fire where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

4) Matt. 13: 47, 50-- the bad are "thrown away"-- "thrown into the furnace of fire."

5) Matt. 18: 8, 9-- People will be "cast into the eternal fire."

6) Matt. 18: 34, 35-- Jesus says His Father will hand us over to "torturers" if we do not forgive others from our hearts.

7) Matt. 21: 40, 41-- the landowner bring the vine-growers to a "wretched end." In Mark 12: 29, the owner will "destroy the vine-growers." See also Luke 20: 16.

8) Matt. 22: 13-- The king tells his servants to bind the man without wedding garment and "throw him" into "outer darkness." (Compare Matt. 13: 50)

9) Matt. 24: 37, 38, 39-- Jesus teaches that people will die at Christ's return just as they did at the Deluge. In the Deluge, God destroyed them. The wicked made themselves unfit to live. In that sense, they destroyed themselves, but it was God who caused the Deluge which brought about their deaths.

10) Matt. 24: 51-- The "Master" will "cut the slave in pieces." (cf. Luke 12: 46). The slave does not cut himself nor do the slaves cut each other.

11) Matt. 25: 11-- The foolish virgins beg to be let inside the wedding feast (heaven) but they are rejected by the bridegroom. God will say that He doesn't know them. (Cf. Luke 13: 25, 27)

12) Matt. 25: 30-- The "Master" orders the "worthless slave" to be "thrown into the outer darkness"-- into oblivion. (cf. 13: 50). There will be "fire."

13) Matt. 25: 31-41. When Jesus comes in His glory, people will be judged, or separated, according to how they've treated Jesus in the person of other people. Those who have neglected to be kind and loving toward others will be sent "into the eternal fire" which God has prepared for the devil and his angels.

14) Matt. 25: 46-- the lost "go away into eternal punishment."

15) Luke 19: 27-- A nobleman (Christ) has his "enemies" "slain" in His sight. His "enemies" are those who did not want Him to reign over them.

NOTE: Can anyone find a parable in which the wicked are destroyed by Satan or by other wicked people or where they commit suicide or voluntarily jump into the lake of fire?

Notice that these parables are in total harmony with the teaching found elsewhere in Scripture, including the epistles of Paul, as well as the writings of Ellen White.

[LifeHiscost]

I copied that quote from LifeHiscost post, because it supported my understanding. I didn't know if it was being used against my understanding of in support of.

wayfinder, I don't quote or speak with the Word or the Spirit of Prophecy, except to reveal the truth. If I believe different or the same as any participant on this forum or thread, it is meant to reveal the Truth, not to demean or extol anyone's virtue. A few of the Scriptures that I feel define my interests best;

"So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it."Isaiah 55:11 NKJV

"One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind."Romans 14:5 NKJV

"“The heart is deceitful above all things,And desperately wicked; Who can know it?"Jeremiah 17:9 NKJV

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new."2 Corinthians 5:17 NKJV

Blessings!

[pnattmbtc]

Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc

The "whole picture" includes force and violence, which are not principles of God's government.

Excactly. And therein lies your mistake. You have departed from the very rules of Bible interprtation that Adventism was founded on. The foundation of Adventism was built upon William Miller's 14 points of how to study and interpret the Bible.

You have abandoned more that one of these, but the main one you have thrown out is point #4 where it says you have to look at ALL the texts dealing with the subject. If your theory holds up without contradiction, then it is right.

Also the Bible is to be taken literally, just as it reads. You cannot do this, because the plain language of the Bible dosn't fit into your paradigm.

RULE IV.

To understand doctrine, bring all the scriptures together on the subject you wish to know; then

let every word have its proper influence, and if you can form your theory without a

contradiction, you cannot be in an error.

RULE V.

Scripture must be its own expositor, since it is a rule of itself. If I depend on a teacher to expound it to me, and he should guess at its meaning, or desire to have it so on account of his

sectarian creed, or to be thought wise, then his guessing, desire, creed or wisdom is my rule, not

the Bible.

RULE VI.

God has revealed things to come, by visions, in figures and parables, and in this way the same

things are oftentime revealed again and again, by different visions, or in different figures, and

parables. If you wish to understand them, you must combine them all in one.

You are using EGW in a way that she specifically said not to do. We are not to use her writings to form doctrine, or to interpret the Bible.

No, Richard. I'm not using her to form doctrine. I'm new to this forum. I notice that people use Ellen White a lot. So I'm quoting from her. Why don't you take the other people to task for this?

I'm happy to discuss this subject from the standpoint of Scripture alone if you wish. Start a topic, Scripture only, if you wish.

[pnattmbtc]

I'm interested in your pacifism comment, Richard. What prompted that? When you say pacifism is wrong, just what do you mean?

[pnattmbtc]

Quote:

In the laws of God in nature, effect follows cause with unerring certainty. The reaping will testify as to what the sowing has been. The slothful worker is condemned by his work. The harvest bears witness against him. So in spiritual things: the faithfulness of every worker is measured by the results of his work. The character of his work, whether diligent or slothful, is revealed by the harvest. It is thus that his destiny for eternity is decided.

Every seed sown produces a harvest of its kind. So it is in human life. We all need to sow the seeds of compassion, sympathy, and love; for we shall reap what we sow. Every characteristic of selfishness, self-love, self-esteem, every act of self-indulgence, will bring forth a like harvest. He who lives for self is sowing to the flesh, and of the flesh he will reap corruption.

God destroys no man. Everyone who is destroyed will have destroyed himself. Everyone who stifles the admonitions of conscience is sowing the seeds of unbelief, and these will produce a sure harvest. (COL 84)

Comments on one of the parables dealing with the destruction of the wicked.

[Guest]

No, Richard. I'm not using her to form doctrine. I'm new to this forum. I notice that people use Ellen White a lot. So I'm quoting from her. Why don't you take the other people to task for this?

I'm happy to discuss this subject from the standpoint of Scripture alone if you wish. Start a topic, Scripture only, if you wish.

I was by no means referring only to you, but to anyone who puts forth this notion that God has never destroyed anything and never will.

If you think you can prove that from the Bible, using the same method of study that our founders used, then go ahead. Do it right here. There is no need of a new topic.

[Guest]

You may want to watch the video that I posted a link to first. I would highly recommend it.

[pnattmbtc]

Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc

No, Richard. I'm not using her to form doctrine. I'm new to this forum. I notice that people use Ellen White a lot. So I'm quoting from her. Why don't you take the other people to task for this?

I'm happy to discuss this subject from the standpoint of Scripture alone if you wish. Start a topic, Scripture only, if you wish.

I was by no means referring only to you, but to anyone who puts forth this notion that God has never destroyed anything and never will.

If you think you can prove that from the Bible, using the same method of study that our founders used, then go ahead. Do it right here. There is no need of a new topic.

Richard, I'm pretty sure that everyone here who posts on the side of the issue that God does not destroy by using force and violence would agree that God destroys. The question is how does God destroy. I'm pretty sure Lutz and Sky have said this, and I'm also quite sure that APL would agree with this as well. (Sorry if I missed someone).

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

I was by no means referring only to you, but to anyone who puts forth this notion that God has never destroyed anything and never will.

If you think you can prove that from the Bible, using the same method of study that our founders used, then go ahead. Do it right here. There is no need of a new topic.

[/quote']

Richard, I'm pretty sure that everyone here who posts on the side of the issue that God does not destroy by using force and violence would agree that God destroys. The question is how does God destroy. I'm pretty sure Lutz and Sky have said this, and I'm also quite sure that APL would agree with this as well. (Sorry if I missed someone).

No, that is not true. sky dosn't even believe God caused the flood, or Sodom and Gomorrah. He has taken another man's teaching on this instead.

[Lutz13]

Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc

No, that is not true. sky dosn't even believe God caused the flood, or Sodom and Gomorrah. He has taken another man's teaching on this instead.

I don't think He did either. This will all become very clear to you once the plagues are being poured out. You will realize that it is indeed man doing it.

Are you aware we are shooting rockets at the moon? Are you aware that Monsanto is causing the extinction of seeds?

[Guest]

I don't think He did either. This will all become very clear to you once the plagues are being poured out. You will realize that it is indeed man doing it.

Are you aware we are shooting rockets at the moon? Are you aware that Monsanto is causing the extinction of seeds?

You have departed from the very rules of Bible interprtation that Adventism was founded on. The foundation of Adventism was built upon William Miller's 14 points of how to study and interpret the Bible.

You have abandoned more that one of these, but the main one you have thrown out is point #4 where it says you have to look at ALL the texts dealing with the subject. If your theory holds up without contradiction, then it is right.

Also the Bible is to be taken literally, just as it reads. You cannot do this, because the plain language of the Bible dosn't fit into your paradigm.

RULE IV.

To understand doctrine, bring all the scriptures together on the subject you wish to know; then

let every word have its proper influence, and if you can form your theory without a

contradiction, you cannot be in an error.

RULE V.

Scripture must be its own expositor, since it is a rule of itself. If I depend on a teacher to expound it to me, and he should guess at its meaning, or desire to have it so on account of his

sectarian creed, or to be thought wise, then his guessing, desire, creed or wisdom is my rule, not

the Bible.

RULE VI.

God has revealed things to come, by visions, in figures and parables, and in this way the same

things are oftentime revealed again and again, by different visions, or in different figures, and

parables. If you wish to understand them, you must combine them all in one.

You are using EGW in a way that she specifically said not to do. We are not to use her writings to form doctrine, or to interpret the Bible.

[Guest]

How do the fundamentals read?

Do they say that God does not destroy?

Mark

Mark, If you watch this sermon you will see just how wrong the pacifists are, and why. I knew they were wrong, but I didn't know how wrong until I found this historical Adventist teacher by the name of Adrian Ebens.

Click on the link, and then go down to the fourth sermon on the list. It's called:

"The Inroads of Spiritualism" by Adrian Ebens

http://maranathamedia.com/start/index.ph...Itemid=99999999

This is amazing, and very enlightening.

[Lutz13]

Originally Posted By: Lutz13

I don't think He did either. This will all become very clear to you once the plagues are being poured out. You will realize that it is indeed man doing it.

Are you aware we are shooting rockets at the moon? Are you aware that Monsanto is causing the extinction of seeds?

You have departed from the very rules of Bible interprtation that Adventism was founded on. The foundation of Adventism was built upon William Miller's 14 points of how to study and interpret the Bible.

You have abandoned more that one of these, but the main one you have thrown out is point #4 where it says you have to look at ALL the texts dealing with the subject. If your theory holds up without contradiction, then it is right.

Also the Bible is to be taken literally, just as it reads. You cannot do this, because the plain language of the Bible dosn't fit into your paradigm.

RULE IV.

To understand doctrine, bring all the scriptures together on the subject you wish to know; then

let every word have its proper influence, and if you can form your theory without a

contradiction, you cannot be in an error.

RULE V.

Scripture must be its own expositor, since it is a rule of itself. If I depend on a teacher to expound it to me, and he should guess at its meaning, or desire to have it so on account of his

sectarian creed, or to be thought wise, then his guessing, desire, creed or wisdom is my rule, not

the Bible.

RULE VI.

God has revealed things to come, by visions, in figures and parables, and in this way the same

things are oftentime revealed again and again, by different visions, or in different figures, and

parables. If you wish to understand them, you must combine them all in one.

You are using EGW in a way that she specifically said not to do. We are not to use her writings to form doctrine, or to interpret the Bible.

I hardly use EGW buddy. I can prove it through scripture only.

[Guest]

Do it

[Lutz13]

Do it

Why bother? There are text that state that God never changes that you refuse to believe.

[Lutz13]

Like I said earlier that you conveniently skipped. This message will become clear to you as the plagues are being poured out and you realize it is man doing it.

We are seeing it today. Shooting rockets at the moon. Causing seeds to become extinct...Etc.

There are consequences to everything. When God does what man wants Him to do. It is going to get ugly.

[Guest]

I believe them. He dosn't need to change. You are just taking a very narrow view of one part of his character without looking at the whole picture. That's why you can't do it, because using the rules that William Miller used, which Adventism was founded on, you would have to include all the texts that YOU don't believe.

Why don't you watch that video. You have nothing to lose by doing so.

[Lutz13]

I believe them. He dosn't need to change. You are just taking a very narrow view of one part of his character without looking at the whole picture. That's why you can't do it, because using the rules that William Miller used, which Adventism was founded on, you would have to include all the texts that YOU don't believe.