Sin destroy's itself...

[skyblue888]

This is your personal opinion.

Prove your assertions now.

sky

[skyblue888]

In her writings are found statements that explain the language used when describing God's judgments. These statements are so plain that a child can understand them. When they are accepted by simple faith, it becomes clear that Satan's ways of destroying are not God's ways of destroying. God "destroys" by trying to save. God "hardens" the heart by trying to soften it. God "blinds" the eyes of men by sending them light. In other words, by resisting or rejecting that light the eyes are blinded and the hearts hardened. The second revealing is less clearly discerned. The darkness increases until it is night in the soul. The rejecters of His mercy place themselves where the Lord can no longer protect them from themselves or from the malice and enmity of Satan. And this is called the wrath of God, the anger of the Lord. The Lord has made this so clear that we have no excuse not to believe.

sky

[skyblue888]

And when after the 1000 years the wicked of all ages are raised from their dusty beds, to appear before the tribunal of God, along with Satan and his angels, all will become clear. All will see that all the judgments of God throughout the ages did not come directly out from the Lord upon sinners but that they had placed themselves beyond His protection. They will understand that and at the end of the day they will blame Satan and his angels (scapegoats)as responsible for their being lost forever and the weapons that they had constructed to overtake the City of God will now be employed to destroy Satan and his angels and during the ensuing battle fire will come down from God out of heaven and they will be consumed. But that fire will not come directly out from the Lord but from their own deadly weapons and from nature turned out of control.

In that day, the righteous will see with their own eyes the truthfulness of these words: "Evil shall slay the wicked". Psalm 34:21.

sky

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc

Quote:

7) Matt. 21: 40, 41-- the landowner bring the vine-growers to a "wretched end." In Mark 12: 29, the owner will "destroy the vine-growers." See also Luke 20: 16.

This is a reference to the destruction of Jerusalem:

Quote:

The Jews had forged their own fetters; they had filled for themselves the cup of vengeance. In the utter destruction that befell them as a nation, and in all the woes that followed them in their dispersion, they were but reaping the harvest which their own hands had sown. Says the prophet: "O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself;" "for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity." Hosea 13:9; 14:1. Their sufferings are often represented as a punishment visited upon them by the direct decree of God. It is thus that the great deceiver seeks to conceal his own work. By stubborn rejection of divine love and mercy, the Jews had caused the protection of God to be withdrawn from them... (GC 35)

Amen!

After such clear presentations, we have no more excuse. We are now under obligation to believe as Mrs. White stated in the days that followed the Minneapolis conference in 1888, as light from Heaven was presented in clear and disctinct lines.

sky

We have a clear representation of what happened to Jerusalem, not the destruction of the wicked.

Context is always important.

I do not think anyone will object to the above statement applying to Jerusalem...

Mark

[Twilight]

God can destroy without having to directly cause things to happen Himself. That's the point.

How?

Either God destroys or He does not.

Please explain this statement. :-)

Mark

[Twilight]

How long should it take for a Seventh-day Adventist who professes to believe in the SoP to believe just what the prophet says she was shown by the Lord:

"I was shown that the judgments of God would not come directly out from the Lord but in this way--they place themselves beyond His protection." MR 14,3.1

How long should it take for us to believe that? How long should it take to understand that a statement like that is a strong hint from the Lord as to how we are to read the Bible when God says that He did this or that He did that or that He will do this or that He will do that when it comes to His judgments?

"It is dangerous to utter a word of doubt, dangerous to question and criticize divine light." D.A.323.

sky

But we need the whole context Sky...

Let us consider the words in "context":

----------------------------------

I was shown that the time was in the near future that these whom God had warned and reproved and given great light but they would not correct their ways and follow the light, He would remove from them that heavenly protection which had preserved them from Satan's cruel power; the Lord would surely leave them to themselves to follow the judgment and counsels of their own wisdom; they would be simply left to themselves, and the protection of God be withdrawn from them, and they would not be shielded from the workings of Satan; that none of finite judgment and foresight can have any power to conceive of the care God has exercised through His angels over the children of men in their travels, in their own houses, in their eating and drinking. Wherever they are, His eye is upon them. They are preserved from a thousand dangers, all to them unseen. Satan has laid snares, but the Lord is constantly at work to save His people from them. {14MR 2.3}

But [from] those who have no sense of the goodness and mercy of God, [those] who refuse His merciful warnings, who reject His counsels to reach

the highest standard of Bible requirements, who do despite to the Spirit of grace, the Lord would remove His protecting power. I was shown that Satan would entangle and then destroy, if he could, the souls he had tempted. God will bear long, but there is a bound to His mercy, a line which marks His mercy and His justice. {14MR 2.4}

I was shown that the judgments of God would not come directly out from the Lord upon them, but in this way: They place themselves beyond His protection. He warns, corrects, reproves, and points out the only path of safety; then if those who have been the objects of His special care will follow their own course independent of the Spirit of God, after repeated warnings, if they choose their own way, then He does not commission His angels to prevent Satan's decided attacks upon them.

----------------------------------

This quote is dealing with a specific group of people at a specific time.

It is dealing with the Advent people.

It is dealing with what will happen before Jesus comes.

So yes, I accept the words of the Prophet.

I just cannot accept an out of context interpretation of those quotes.

If we cannot even use a quote in context, how are we going to understand anything in the SOP?

Mark

[Woody]

Quote:

I just cannot accept an out of context interpretation of those quotes.

If we cannot even use a quote in context, how are we going to understand anything in the SOP?

Mark

I agree with you Mark. Unfortunately ... we are warned that in the end days ... there will be those who try hard to make of no effect ... the words of our Lord and Saviour. This is done in a variety of ways ... ONE being the use of quotes out of context. Good point. Prophecy being fulfilled right before our very eyes.

It is important for us to take God's word as it is and not as our own personal desires would dictate. Private interpretations are what the Devil trys to get us to rely upon. But we need to rely upon the Holy Spirit and Present Truth.

[skyblue888]

When God destroys, He moves away from the subject with no intention of killing.

When man destroys, he carries the weapons of death in his hands.

When God destroys, He carries no weapons but lays down control of the destructive powers.

When man destroys, he guides the sword on to its target.

When God destroys, there is no personal administration of punishment. Whatever comes upon the sinner is the outworking of the forces of death which he himself has set in motion.

At this point two questions are apt to arise. The first is:

After all, what is the essential difference between the direct act of destroying, or that of departing to leave the person to die? In both cases it is God's action which brings about the destruction and therefore, in each case, He is a destroyer.

This would be true if God's withdrawal was His own act, but it is not. The fact is that He is driven away. Think of the way in which Christ went to Calvary. He was taken there forcibly. This shows in its clearest terms man's reaction toward the loving appeals of God. Man drives God away, depriving Him of any possibility of remaining unless He forces His presence, which the Lord will never do.

For those who are prepared to believe that God never puts forth His hands to destroy, yet consider that His act of withdrawing in the full knowledge of what that will mean, makes Him a destroyer just the same, the following illustration is given.

This will show the distinct difference between merely withdrawing and being forced to withdraw. It will show that even in His withdrawing it is not God who is responsible for the disasters which follow.

Let us suppose that there is an atomic power plant located in the midst of a small township of two thousand people. The nature of this power plant is such that an operator must continually be in the control room to monitor the controls. Should this post be left unattended for several hours or more, the nuclear fission will run out of control and blossom into a holocaust of destruction.

The situation arises where every technician but one is taken away and the full responsibility rests upon this man. No one else in the whole area has the training, knowledge, or skill, to operate this volatile equipment.

This creates no special problem, for the man is healthy, very conscientious, and does his work with great faithfulness day and night. He is able to take sufficient rest between check times to enable him to carry on indefinitely.

But, there enters the area an arch-enemy of the technician who determines to run him out of town. To accomplish this, he circulates lying reports until a hate complex is generated among the villagers. They begin to persecute the technician in every imaginable way with increasing intensity. For a very long time he patiently endures the attacks in the hope that they will subside and with the realization that if he does forsake his post it will be disastrous for the village.

Finally his patience runs out. "I have had enough of this," he cries. "I have gone the second and the third mile. These people have shown that they do not deserve to live. I am leaving."

Whereupon he walks out of the control room and drives far away. Several hours elapse and he is safe beyond the reach of the explosion when it occurs. The village and all in it are utterly destroyed.

While it is true that in a certain sense the villagers destroyed themselves, it is equally true that this technician destroyed them for he left them knowing that his departure would bring those sure and certain results. This is the picture which many have of God.

The situation faced by this man is the same as that faced by God. He is the great "Technician" who is in charge of the power house of nature. When He lets go of those powers, there is no one else who can control them and keep them from exploding in a horror of destruction. An enemy has come in and a hate complex has been generated against God.

Many believe this truth and then see God coming to the end of His patience, as in our illustration, and voluntarily withdrawing to leave men to perish in the cataclysm of destruction which inevitably follows.

If this is the true picture of God, then, unquestionably, we would have to agree that He is, after all, a destroyer.But it is not. God is a very different person from this. Let us retell the story as it would provide a true picture of God's character.

Here is the same technician, the same control room, the same situation, the same village and the same enemy stirring up trouble.

This time the technician never thinks of leaving. No matter what they do to him, all he can see is their situation. He knows that if he leaves them, they will all be dead men so he stays on. His patience is not in question for he is not thinking of himself at all.

But the persecution becomes more and more intense until the people begin to demand that he go. He protests that if he does, they will perish and for their sakes, not his own, he desires to stay. They, in their hateful blindness, being ignorant of their real danger and over-confident of their own ability to handle the control room anyway, laugh derisively at him and shout for his departure.

With deepest concern for them he holds on and fulfils his work as faithfully as ever. Every time he thinks of them, a pang of fear and pain sweeps through him, and he considers most earnestly how he can win their love and confidence so that he might preserve them alive. Not one thought is for himself—every thought is for them and their need.

But every day they become more hateful and violent until they invade the control room and angrily shout at him to leave. They jostle him out through the door and down to his car. They put him into it and direct him to drive away. There is no choice left. Slowly, he drives out of the village and mounts the first hill beyond. He stops the car, climbs out and looks back toward the angry knot of people gathered to witness that he is truly gone. He spreads his hands in one last loving appeal. The instant response is agitated signals conveying to him their unchanged demand that he go.

What more can he do?

Nothing! Every possible source open to him to save those people is exhausted and with the heaviest of hearts he turns his car into the distance and is gone forever. Several hours pass and then the atomic fireball blasts the village and the villagers out of existence.

No one can say that this man is a destroyer. He acted out the character of a saviour only. He could not and did not save them because they would not let him.

This is the true picture of the character of God.

The truth of this is stated in a paragraph from Prophets and Kings, 176. "Christ will never abandon those for whom He has died. We may leave Him and be overwhelmed with temptation, but Christ can never turn from one for whom He has paid the ransom of His own life."

In view of the fact that Christ died for all men, this statement is saying that it is impossible for Christ to turn away from anyone. Men turn away from God. God cannot turn away from men.

That is impossible.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc

I'm quite sure what I said is true, Richard. Sky would agree completely with the concept that we should ask, "God does destroy, but how?"

Quote:

sky dosn't even believe God caused the flood, or Sodom and Gomorrah.

God can destroy without having to directly cause things to happen Himself. That's the point.

[/quote']

Exactly. That is the point. It is the Lord Himself who says that His judgments do not come direclty out from Him upon the sinner.

I don't know how anyone can argue with the Lord on this as if to say, I will tell you how to teach Your message!!!!

sky

People are arguing with these quotes being taken out of context to support a teaching that cannot be drawn from the bible.

Not the quotes themselves.

Mark

[Twilight]

Quote:

The Saviour's prophecy concerning the visitation of judgments upon Jerusalem is to have another fulfillment, of which that terrible desolation was but a faint shadow. In the fate of the chosen city we may behold the doom of a world that has rejected God's mercy and trampled upon His law.(GC 36)

The principles in the destruction of Jerusalem are the same as in the time of judgment, as EGW explains several times. If we wish to understand the principles that will be in place at the time of the end, we should study the destruction of Jerusalem, as Jerusalem is an example of the destruction to come.

Again a quote misapplied.

It is saying that the world will be destroyed as was Jerusalem.

Now do you have anything from a quote in context that supports this statement you made:

The principles in the destruction of Jerusalem are the same as in the time of judgment,

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

I think many of our brothers are working on character flaws.

But I think this here is inappropriate Sky.

You are comparing Richard to the Sanhedrin by insinuation.

You are saying he is opposing Gods truth.

----------------------------------------

The only thing I seem him opposing is error.

Error that could be avoided if we stuck to the simple biblical principles of exposition of truth.

Many people have given ample reasons for these teachings to be rejected.

Solid biblical reasons.

So let us stop this "high horse" behaviour, that states that if you do not agree with "me", you are teaching error...

We must give each other the liberty to believe what we believe.

People do not agree with you for biblical reasons.

But does this mean we should condemn you?

And say that you are rejecting light?

Man sows the seed, the Holy Spirit convicts.

Let us let Him do the work.

Mark [/quote']

Again, this is purely human reasoning on your part. It is the Holy Spirit who says that "it is dangerous to utter a word of doubt, dangerous to question and criticize divine light." D.A.323. It is the Holy Spirit who says that "when one ray of light is disregarded there is a partial benumbing of the spiritual perceptions and the second revealing is less clearly discerned." D.A.322. It is the Holy Spirit who says that "when light is sent and it is rejected, set aside, then come condemnation and the frown of God."

These are not my words but the words of inspiration.

If anyone feels condemned by these words he will have to answer to God, not to any man.

Precious light has been presented, not the suppositions of men.

"God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression." G.C.36.

"I was shown that the judgments of God would not come directly out from the Lord upon them but in this way--they place themselves beyond His protection." MR 14, 3.1

What is inappropriate is to fail to accept these revelations with the simple faith of a little child and instead to oppose them with our preconceived ideas and opinions.

On the contrary, it has been shown from the Bible itself, who is the destroyer and who is the Restorer. It has been shown from the Bible and from the SoP how we are to understand such expressions as "God hardenend Pharaoh's heart," or "God sends them strong delusion," or "God sent them fiery serpents," or "God sent the flood," or "God sent fire from heaven."

Let us not turn away from evidence.

May God have mercy on His professed people.

If this message keeps being rejected by His professed people, the time will come when the message will go to the Gentiles and they will hear it.

“The Holy Spirit spoke rightly through Isaiah the prophet to our fathers, saying,

‘Go to this people and say:

'Hearing you will hear, and shall not understand;

And seeing you will see, and not perceive;

For the hearts of this people have grown dull.

Their ears are hard of hearing,

And their eyes they have closed,

Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,

Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,

So that I should heal them.

Therefore let it be known to you that the salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will hear it! And when he had said these words, the Jews departed and had a great dispute among themselves." Acts 28:25-29.

sky

I am not rejecting light from God Sky.

I am rejecting what is being taught here on the subject of the destruction of the wicked.

They are two very different things in my view.

The position you have presented is based on quotes taken out of context, ignoring any quotes that contradict.

Mark

[Twilight]

This is nonsense, total nonsense, Richard, and you know it. You and Mark are substituting your own fallible ideas to a Thus saith the Lord. You are both rejecting the Testimonies. This is what is happening here and by the same token you are rejecting the Bible too for the Testimonies do not conflict with the Scriptures.

sky

No my friend, we are rejecting a "thus saith Sky".

There is a big difference.

Mark

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

The rules William Miller used to study the Bible are no different than the rules God gave Mrs. White as to how to study not only the Bible but her writings as well.

"The Testimonies will be the key that will explain the messages given, as Scripture is explained by Scripture." 1 S.M.42.

This is clear.

There is no contradiction here.

Just as one passage of Scripture is explained by another, so is one statement from her writings explained by another.

sky

Right, but you are explaining away scripture with her testimonies, which is wrong. But to make it even worse, you are using testimony out of context and applying it across the board so to speak. Which is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!

Agreed.

And then condemning everybody who does not accept it.

[Twilight]

This is your personal opinion.

Prove your assertions now.

sky

That has been done over and over Sky.

You have not received it.

Mark

[Twilight]

And when after the 1000 years the wicked of all ages are raised from their dusty beds, to appear before the tribunal of God, along with Satan and his angels, all will become clear. All will see that all the judgments of God throughout the ages did not come directly out from the Lord upon sinners but that they had placed themselves beyond His protection. They will understand that and at the end of the day they will blame Satan and his angels (scapegoats)as responsible for their being lost forever and the weapons that they had constructed to overtake the City of God will now be employed to destroy Satan and his angels and during the ensuing battle fire will come down from God out of heaven and they will be consumed. But that fire will not come directly out from the Lord but from their own deadly weapons and from nature turned out of control.

In that day, the righteous will see with their own eyes the truthfulness of these words: "Evil shall slay the wicked". Psalm 34:21.

sky

But she never condoned taking a statement out of context.

Then using that statement to club to death any other statement that might balance it out does she?

[Twilight]

When God destroys, He moves away from the subject with no intention of killing.

When man destroys, he carries the weapons of death in his hands.

When God destroys, He carries no weapons but lays down control of the destructive powers.

When man destroys, he guides the sword on to its target.

When God destroys, there is no personal administration of punishment. Whatever comes upon the sinner is the outworking of the forces of death which he himself has set in motion.

At this point two questions are apt to arise. The first is:

After all, what is the essential difference between the direct act of destroying, or that of departing to leave the person to die? In both cases it is God's action which brings about the destruction and therefore, in each case, He is a destroyer.

This would be true if God's withdrawal was His own act, but it is not. The fact is that He is driven away. Think of the way in which Christ went to Calvary. He was taken there forcibly. This shows in its clearest terms man's reaction toward the loving appeals of God. Man drives God away, depriving Him of any possibility of remaining unless He forces His presence, which the Lord will never do.

For those who are prepared to believe that God never puts forth His hands to destroy, yet consider that His act of withdrawing in the full knowledge of what that will mean, makes Him a destroyer just the same, the following illustration is given.

This will show the distinct difference between merely withdrawing and being forced to withdraw. It will show that even in His withdrawing it is not God who is responsible for the disasters which follow.

Let us suppose that there is an atomic power plant located in the midst of a small township of two thousand people. The nature of this power plant is such that an operator must continually be in the control room to monitor the controls. Should this post be left unattended for several hours or more, the nuclear fission will run out of control and blossom into a holocaust of destruction.

The situation arises where every technician but one is taken away and the full responsibility rests upon this man. No one else in the whole area has the training, knowledge, or skill, to operate this volatile equipment.

This creates no special problem, for the man is healthy, very conscientious, and does his work with great faithfulness day and night. He is able to take sufficient rest between check times to enable him to carry on indefinitely.

But, there enters the area an arch-enemy of the technician who determines to run him out of town. To accomplish this, he circulates lying reports until a hate complex is generated among the villagers. They begin to persecute the technician in every imaginable way with increasing intensity. For a very long time he patiently endures the attacks in the hope that they will subside and with the realization that if he does forsake his post it will be disastrous for the village.

Finally his patience runs out. "I have had enough of this," he cries. "I have gone the second and the third mile. These people have shown that they do not deserve to live. I am leaving."

Whereupon he walks out of the control room and drives far away. Several hours elapse and he is safe beyond the reach of the explosion when it occurs. The village and all in it are utterly destroyed.

While it is true that in a certain sense the villagers destroyed themselves, it is equally true that this technician destroyed them for he left them knowing that his departure would bring those sure and certain results. This is the picture which many have of God.

The situation faced by this man is the same as that faced by God. He is the great "Technician" who is in charge of the power house of nature. When He lets go of those powers, there is no one else who can control them and keep them from exploding in a horror of destruction. An enemy has come in and a hate complex has been generated against God.

Many believe this truth and then see God coming to the end of His patience, as in our illustration, and voluntarily withdrawing to leave men to perish in the cataclysm of destruction which inevitably follows.

If this is the true picture of God, then, unquestionably, we would have to agree that He is, after all, a destroyer.But it is not. God is a very different person from this. Let us retell the story as it would provide a true picture of God's character.

Here is the same technician, the same control room, the same situation, the same village and the same enemy stirring up trouble.

This time the technician never thinks of leaving. No matter what they do to him, all he can see is their situation. He knows that if he leaves them, they will all be dead men so he stays on. His patience is not in question for he is not thinking of himself at all.

But the persecution becomes more and more intense until the people begin to demand that he go. He protests that if he does, they will perish and for their sakes, not his own, he desires to stay. They, in their hateful blindness, being ignorant of their real danger and over-confident of their own ability to handle the control room anyway, laugh derisively at him and shout for his departure.

With deepest concern for them he holds on and fulfils his work as faithfully as ever. Every time he thinks of them, a pang of fear and pain sweeps through him, and he considers most earnestly how he can win their love and confidence so that he might preserve them alive. Not one thought is for himself—every thought is for them and their need.

But every day they become more hateful and violent until they invade the control room and angrily shout at him to leave. They jostle him out through the door and down to his car. They put him into it and direct him to drive away. There is no choice left. Slowly, he drives out of the village and mounts the first hill beyond. He stops the car, climbs out and looks back toward the angry knot of people gathered to witness that he is truly gone. He spreads his hands in one last loving appeal. The instant response is agitated signals conveying to him their unchanged demand that he go.

What more can he do?

Nothing! Every possible source open to him to save those people is exhausted and with the heaviest of hearts he turns his car into the distance and is gone forever. Several hours pass and then the atomic fireball blasts the village and the villagers out of existence.

No one can say that this man is a destroyer. He acted out the character of a saviour only. He could not and did not save them because they would not let him.

This is the true picture of the character of God.

The truth of this is stated in a paragraph from Prophets and Kings, 176. "Christ will never abandon those for whom He has died. We may leave Him and be overwhelmed with temptation, but Christ can never turn from one for whom He has paid the ransom of His own life."

In view of the fact that Christ died for all men, this statement is saying that it is impossible for Christ to turn away from anyone. Men turn away from God. God cannot turn away from men.

That is impossible.

Men turn away from God and suffer the consequences.

No protection when God reveals His glory.

And sin is destroyed by that glory.

Mark

[Twilight]

Quote:

I just cannot accept an out of context interpretation of those quotes.

If we cannot even use a quote in context, how are we going to understand anything in the SOP?

Mark

I agree with you Mark. Unfortunately ... we are warned that in the end days ... there will be those who try hard to make of no effect ... the words of our Lord and Saviour. This is done in a variety of ways ... ONE being the use of quotes out of context. Good point. Prophecy being fulfilled right before our very eyes.

It is important for us to take God's word as it is and not as our own personal desires would dictate. Private interpretations are what the Devil trys to get us to rely upon. But we need to rely upon the Holy Spirit and Present Truth.

I personally think we can have great light in one area.

But be blind sided in another.

So when a brother insists on error, it may take years for the Lord to reach through that darkness.

That does not mean we write them off, or assume the very worst of them.

I did this in the past to you Redwood.

I do not agree with what you believe, but that does not mean I should write you off.

For that I apologise.

We should never write another off, because we never know what error we hold that is hidden to us. :-)

Mark

[Guest]

Where is the EGW quote that says we are to change the language of the Bible? Or that the language of the Bible is wrong?

[Twilight]

Where is the EGW quote that says we are to change the language of the Bible? Or that the language of the Bible is wrong?

The only ones I have ever seen, are the ones you have supplied that warn us not to do this Richard...

[Guest]

The position you have presented is based on quotes taken out of context, ignoring any quotes that contradict.

Mark

This is what I see happening also. When one is not willing to look at the whole picture, as we have been instructed to do. then they will invariably go off the path of light.

To take one set of quotes, and use them to argue against another set of quotes is not the proper way of study.

To take a set of quotes and use them against the plain language of the Bible is also an improper use of the testimonies.

[skyblue888]

"If God does not in fact destroy, then why does He use this word to describe His actions? Does this not tend to make the Scriptures confusing?"

This is an excellent question, in answer to which it must be said that this is the right word to use in describing God's actions, for there is a deep and important sense in which it is true that He does destroy.

God comes to man in one role only, which is as a Saviour. But the effect of that effort is not always a saving one. With the majority, the effect is to harden them in rebellion and to cause them to withdraw themselves from the voice of loving entreaty.

Thus God destroys by trying to save. The more He exerts His saving power, the more men are driven by their rejection of it to destruction. It is in this sense that He destroys.

This principle of truth is spelled out with great clarity in the following statement:

"It is not God that blinds the eyes of men or hardens their hearts. He sends them light to correct their errors, and to lead them in safe paths; it is by the rejection of this light that the eyes are blinded and the heart hardened. Often the process is gradual, and almost imperceptible. Light comes to the soul through God's word, through His servants, or by the direct agency of His Spirit; but when one ray of light is disregarded, there is a partial benumbing of the spiritual perceptions, and the second revealing of light is less clearly discerned. So the darkness increases, until it is night in the soul. Thus it had been with these Jewish leaders. They were convinced that a divine power attended Christ, but in order to resist the truth, they attributed the work of the Holy Spirit to Satan. In doing this they deliberately chose deception; they yielded themselves to Satan, and henceforth they were controlled by his power." The Desire of Ages, 322, 323.

"It is not God that puts the blinder before the eyes of men or makes their hearts hard; it is the light which God sends to His people, to correct their errors, to lead them in safe paths, but which they refuse to accept,—it is this that blinds their minds and hardens their hearts." The Review and Herald, October 21, 1890.

The outstanding example of this outworking is the history of Pharaoh of Egypt. The Scriptures say, "And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply My signs and wonders in the land of Egypt." Exodus 7:3.

To harden is to destroy. It is not physical destruction but spiritual. This spiritual destruction is the prelude to the physical which must inevitably follow. The Scriptures plainly say that it was God who did it and He did, but every reference which throws light on what God did, shows that His action was to send spiritual light, and loving appeals to Pharaoh. These were designed to soften and save, not to harden him, but that which was sent to save, destroyed him instead, because he rejected it. Note carefully that it was not the light, but his rejection of it that hardened and destroyed him.

"Pharaoh saw the mighty working of the Spirit of God; he saw the miracles which the Lord performed by His servant; but he refused obedience to God's command. The rebellious king had proudly enquired, 'Who is the Lord, that I should obey His voice to let Israel go? . . . (Exodus 5:2).' And as the judgments of God fell more and more heavily upon him, he persisted in stubborn resistance. By rejecting light from heaven, he became hard and unimpressible. The providence of God was revealing His power, and these manifestations, unacknowledged, were the means of hardening Pharaoh's heart against greater light. Those who exalt their own ideas above the plainly specified will of God, are saying as did Pharaoh, 'Who is the Lord, that I should obey His voice?' Every rejection of light hardens the heart and darkens the understanding; and thus men find it more and more difficult to distinguish between right and wrong, and they become bolder in resisting the will of God." The SDA Bible Commentary, 1:1100.

"Every additional evidence of the power of God that the Egyptian monarch resisted, carried him on to a stronger and more

persistent defiance of God. Thus the work went on, finite man warring against the expressed will of an infinite God. This case is a clear illustration of the sin against the Holy Ghost. 'Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.' Gradually the Lord withdrew His Spirit. Removing His restraining power, He gave the king into the hands of the worst of all tyrants." The Review and Herald, July 27, 1897.

"The patience and long-suffering of God, which should soften and subdue the soul, has an altogether different influence upon the careless and sinful. It leads them to cast off restraint, and strengthens them in resistance." The Review and Herald, August 14, 1900.

The truth laid out in these statements is a very important one. When it is truly appreciated, there will be no careless attitude toward the revelations which are brought to us. There will be a conscious fear that a terrible mistake could be made by rejecting light which, because it touches our flesh or some preconceived idea and opinion, we desire to reject. There will be the dread of having the heart hardened and the spiritual sense benumbed.

"Let ministers and people remember that gospel truth ruins if it does not save. The soul that refuses to listen to the invitations of mercy from day to day can soon listen to the most urgent appeals without an emotion stirring his soul." Testimonies for the Church, 5:134.

We must clearly understand that the only effort God puts forth, is to save. That effort can and does produce two opposite effects. In the hearts and lives of those who accept God's work, it achieves its intended result. It softens, changes, cleanses and restores. It is unto life eternal.

But in the lives of those who reject that saving ministry, there is a terrible work of destruction going forward. It is a destroying work which firstly breaks down every spiritual response within, then hardens the heart in rebellion, develops every sinful trait, and compels the Spirit of God to withdraw His presence and His protection. This leaves the individual to the choice he has made; to a position where there is no protection whatsoever from the destructive malice of Satan and sin.

God destroys, but not as man destroys. Every effort on God's part is to save but it has an altogether different result in the lives of those who reject that saving power. Therefore we can know that, in fact, God is a Saviour and a saviour only. He destroys by trying to save so that the more His saving power is manifest in the world and that power is rejected, the more swiftly and terribly are the rejecters destroyed by the simple outworking of the forces involved.

Once this is clearly comprehended, it will be possible to view all God's actions in a new and enlightened way. As a result, the whole of the Scriptures will emerge as one great harmonious truth.

sky

[Guest]

God comes to man in one role only, which is as a Saviour. But the effect of that effort is not always a saving one. With the majority, the effect is to harden them in rebellion and to cause them to withdraw themselves from the voice of loving entreaty.

That is not all that scripture has to say about it.

Isa 63:3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in my anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.

Isa 63:4 For the day of vengeance is in my heart, and the year of my redeemed has come.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: skyblue

God comes to man in one role only, which is as a Saviour. But the effect of that effort is not always a saving one. With the majority, the effect is to harden them in rebellion and to cause them to withdraw themselves from the voice of loving entreaty.

That is not all that scripture has to say about it.

Isa 63:3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in my anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.

Isa 63:4 For the day of vengeance is in my heart, and the year of my redeemed has come.

Further to this, He actually comes to us in many guises.

Lamb, Priest, Judge, Executioneer of Judgement.

Do we just ignore those other roles of Jesus?

Mark

[Guest]

That's right Mark. Nowhere does it say he only has one role.

[Twilight]

That's right Mark. Nowhere does it say he only has one role.

That is correct Richard.

Sky, could you supply a quote that states this:

God comes to man in one role only, which is as a Saviour.