Have you ever noticed ???

[Woody]

that with some ... if you disagree with their pet view of a particular topic ... no matter what that might be ... you are a heretic and are destined for Hell?

We have seen this over and over. It seems that each and every topic is the most critical one. And you just can't survive if you don't know THE TRUTH.

Folks .... TRUTH is over-rated. We will have ALL of eternity to gain understanding of TRUTH. The theology that we 'learn' here on earth is just a drop in the bucket and will not save us.

HE ... Jesus ... THE TRUTH will save us. He has saved us. Knowledge is important ... but highly over rated in the realms of theology.

Surely we can have tolerance for our fellow SDAs and Christians who sincerely see things differently.

Just my 2 cents.

[Twilight]

This indeed is a lesson that the Lord is teaching me.

Mark

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I'm glad you said that, Redwood. I agree.

[Lutz13]

that with some ... if you disagree with their pet view of a particular topic ... no matter what that might be ... you are a heretic and are destined for Hell?

We have seen this over and over. It seems that each and every topic is the most critical one. And you just can't survive if you don't know THE TRUTH.

Folks .... TRUTH is over-rated. We will have ALL of eternity to gain understanding of TRUTH. The theology that we 'learn' here on earth is just a drop in the bucket and will not save us.

HE ... Jesus ... THE TRUTH will save us. He has saved us. Knowledge is important ... but highly over rated in the realms of theology.

Surely we can have tolerance for our fellow SDAs and Christians who sincerely see things differently.

Just my 2 cents.

So a few months back I read in the bulletin that the bible study was going to be at the church. I decided that I would go ahead and go. I really enjoy bible studies with my brothers and sisters. Well when I arrived nobody was there, and the doors were locked! I decided to wait around for a bit, and a car did show up. I didn't recognize the guy at all but he had a key to the church so I figured it was something that had to do with a bible study. I asked what they were studying and the answer I got was that they usually sing and pray for awhile. At this point I was really confused. I thought this was a bible study. He mentioned that they were going to have a special speaker that night as well.

Well I went inside and sat in the pews asking God what on earth this was all about. Several times I was about to get up and go home. Yet for some reason I was compelled to stick around. Many more people showed up and I finally found out that it was a Baptist congregation that uses the church on Wednesdays and Sundays. I let the guy know that I was there for bible study and he mentioned that there are usually some that study in the back room and that he would let me know if he saw them come in.

Well they never showed up, and they kindly invited me to stay and worship with them. I did and as I was sitting alone a gentleman came over and asked if I would like to sit with him and his family. I of course accepted and as I was sitting there listening to their speaker, I realized that these were also my fellow brothers and sisters. It saddened me a bit to see that we are all separated by titles and beliefs. We all share a common belief and that is that Jesus Christ died to save all of mankind.

It was at that moment that I realized that not everyone is ready for truth. Truth is accepted in steps and if it was all given to us right away. It would most likely be rejected because the truth isn't always easy to swallow.

I also asked that Sabbath where the bible study was. I guess there was a mix up in the bulletin and the study was at someones house. It was a great lesson that came from God, so I wasn't all that upset.

I agree with you Redwood. I know God is still working with me in this area. He has brought me a long ways. I still slip every now and then though.

[skyblue888]

Some are claiming that they have been written off or condemned as lost by others just because they don't see things the same way these others do. This couldn't be any further from the truth. Nobody has written anybody off. What has been said though is that no one can afford to disregard one ray of light. That it is dangerous to question or criticize divine light. It is the Holy Spirit who has been sounding the warning through His servant the prophet.

"When one ray of light is disregarded there is a partial benumbing of the spiritual perceptions and the second revealing is less clearly discerned. The darkness increases until it is night in the soul. Thus it had been with the Jewish leaders." D.A.322.

"Closely connected with Christ's warning in regard to the sin against the Holy Spirit is a warning against idle and evil words. The words are an indication of that which is in the heart. "Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh." But the words are more than an indication of character; they have power to react on the character. Men are influenced by their own words. Often under a momentary impulse, prompted by Satan, they give utterance to jealousy or evil surmising, expressing that which they do not really believe; but the expression reacts on the thoughts. They are deceived by their words, and come to believe that true which was spoken at Satan's instigation. Having once expressed an opinion or decision, they are often too proud to retract it, and try to prove themselves in the right, until they come to believe that they are. It is dangerous to utter a word of doubt, dangerous to question and criticize divine light. The habit of careless and irreverent criticism reacts upon the character, in fostering irreverence and unbelief. Many a man indulging this habit has gone on unconscious of danger, until he was ready to criticize and reject the work of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said, "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."

Hence this testimony:

"The only remedy is belief in the truth, acceptance of the light." T.M.91.

I believe with all my heart that the Lord has graciously let the light of His glory-character--shine upon us in the last little while. But that light has been resisted and disregarded by some, and that is why these statements have been brought to view to sound a warning. But God's warnings are the uttering of God's unutterable love:

"All His promises, His warnings, are but the breathing of unutterable love." S.C.35 bottom of page.

sky

[olger]

A-

Men.

g

[wayfinder]

It depends on whether your eyes are open or not or blind or not.

Matthew 6:23

"But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!

Matthew 15:10-20

10 After Jesus called the crowd to Him, He said to them, "Hear and understand. 11 "It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man." 12 Then the disciples came and said to Him, "Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this statement?" 13 But He answered and said, "Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant shall be uprooted. 14 "Let them alone; they are blind guides of the blind. And if a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

There are blind guides of the blind still today.

(I am not meaning anyone on this forum by the above)

[pnattmbtc]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

that with some ... if you disagree with their pet view of a particular topic ... no matter what that might be ... you are a heretic and are destined for Hell?

We have seen this over and over. It seems that each and every topic is the most critical one. And you just can't survive if you don't know THE TRUTH.

Folks .... TRUTH is over-rated. We will have ALL of eternity to gain understanding of TRUTH. The theology that we 'learn' here on earth is just a drop in the bucket and will not save us.

HE ... Jesus ... THE TRUTH will save us. He has saved us. Knowledge is important ... but highly over rated in the realms of theology.

Surely we can have tolerance for our fellow SDAs and Christians who sincerely see things differently.

Just my 2 cents.

So a few months back I read in the bulletin that the bible study was going to be at the church. I decided that I would go ahead and go. I really enjoy bible studies with my brothers and sisters. Well when I arrived nobody was there, and the doors were locked! I decided to wait around for a bit, and a car did show up. I didn't recognize the guy at all but he had a key to the church so I figured it was something that had to do with a bible study. I asked what they were studying and the answer I got was that they usually sing and pray for awhile. At this point I was really confused. I thought this was a bible study. He mentioned that they were going to have a special speaker that night as well.

Well I went inside and sat in the pews asking God what on earth this was all about. Several times I was about to get up and go home. Yet for some reason I was compelled to stick around. Many more people showed up and I finally found out that it was a Baptist congregation that uses the church on Wednesdays and Sundays. I let the guy know that I was there for bible study and he mentioned that there are usually some that study in the back room and that he would let me know if he saw them come in.

Well they never showed up, and they kindly invited me to stay and worship with them. I did and as I was sitting alone a gentleman came over and asked if I would like to sit with him and his family. I of course accepted and as I was sitting there listening to their speaker, I realized that these were also my fellow brothers and sisters. It saddened me a bit to see that we are all separated by titles and beliefs. We all share a common belief and that is that Jesus Christ died to save all of mankind.

It was at that moment that I realized that not everyone is ready for truth. Truth is accepted in steps and if it was all given to us right away. It would most likely be rejected because the truth isn't always easy to swallow.

I also asked that Sabbath where the bible study was. I guess there was a mix up in the bulletin and the study was at someones house. It was a great lesson that came from God, so I wasn't all that upset.

I agree with you Redwood. I know God is still working with me in this area. He has brought me a long ways. I still slip every now and then though.

I've been an SDA most of my life now, but the first couple of years after I became a Christian I wasn't, and attended churches like this one. I agree with your comments. It's really rather like our church, in that there are all types of people.

[pnattmbtc]

Nice thoughts, sky. That testimony, about speech, has had a deep impact on me. We must guard our speech, and thoughts as well.

[Lutz13]

I've been an SDA most of my life now, but the first couple of years after I became a Christian I wasn't, and attended churches like this one. I agree with your comments. It's really rather like our church, in that there are all types of people.

It is a SDA church, but they let this Baptist congregation use it as well since they do not have a church. But yeah, they are lovely people.

[skyblue888]

especially when the ecumenical spirit is in the air like never before... forgetting our differences no matter how important they might be from a Bible standpoint and uniting on what we can all agree.... See G.C.444

[Gerr]

that with some ... if you disagree with their pet view of a particular topic ... no matter what that might be ... you are a heretic and are destined for Hell?

While I don't & never have believed that anyone who disagrees with me are heretics and destined for hell, I believe there ARE heresies that will get people to hell. There are "doctrines of devils" out there that will surely land people in hell if they not only believe it but practice it! I can enumerate some of them here but that would be better suited for another thread.

Quote:

Folks .... TRUTH is over-rated.

Red, this is the biggest baloney sandwich you have yet served!

Let's see. In order for me to access my e-mail or online banking account, my login name and my password have to be 100% accurate. If I want my checking account or credit card statement to balance, all the numbers have to be 100% accurate. In order for my science experiments to amount to anything, they have to be truthful. But in the most crucial aspect of life that has to do with our eternal destiny, TRUTH becomes over-rated?

Quote:

We will have ALL of eternity to gain understanding of TRUTH. The theology that we 'learn' here on earth is just a drop in the bucket and will not save us.

While this is true, if one does not have the love for the TRUTH now, how can one expect to love it by and by?

Quote:

HE ... Jesus ... THE TRUTH will save us. He has saved us. Knowledge is important ... but highly over rated in the realms of theology.

Yeah, the Pharisee also claimed he was saved and not like other men.

Quote:

Surely we can have tolerance for our fellow SDAs and Christians who sincerely see things differently.

Just my 2 cents.

There are heresies that will not lead to loss of one's salvation but there are also heresies that can. The church is not a garbage can for all kinds of doctrines.

[skyblue888]

A big Amen to that!

I will only add that disregarding one ray of light puts us on dangerous ground.

"When one ray of light is disregarded there is a partial benumbing of the spiritual perceptions and the second revealing is less clearly discerned. The darkness increases until it is night in the soul." D.A.322.

All it takes is to disregard one ray of light!

Then we are on very dangerous ground.

sky

[Woody]

A big Amen to that!

I will only add that disregarding one ray of light puts us on dangerous ground.

"When one ray of light is disregarded there is a partial benumbing of the spiritual perceptions and the second revealing is less clearly discerned. The darkness increases until it is night in the soul." D.A.322.

All it takes is to disregard one ray of light!

Then we are on very dangerous ground.

sky

This continues to be the biggest serving of baloney I have seen served.

And yet it continues to be served up on this forum.

IF this was true ... I for one am ready to declare that I am doomed to Hell. For I know for certain that there is some truth somewhere that I have rejected. No doubt. Bring on the fires of Hell.

[skyblue888]

"Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."

sky

[Woody]

Like I said ...

[Lutz13]

I agree with you Red. It is between the individual and God. We shouldn't be going around saying "If you reject this, you're on dangerous ground!"

Like what was made known to me, not everyone is ready for certain truths. It doesn't make them condemned if they reject it at that time. The path God lays out for them may cause them to accept it years down the road.

[Woody]

I agree with you Red. It is between the individual and God. We shouldn't be going around saying "If you reject this, you're on dangerous ground!"

Like what was made known to me, not everyone is ready for certain truths. It doesn't make them condemned if they reject it at that time. The path God lays out for them may cause them to accept it years down the road.

Exactly. Well said. The Holy Spirit works with each person differently and so we as humans can't sit here and say someone is 'rejecting light'. We can't possibly know what the Holy Spirit is presenting to that individual.

And not all Truths are presented to all person's. We need to acknowledge and work with the Holy Spirit's timing and not our own.

[skyblue888]

I agree with you Red. It is between the individual and God. We shouldn't be going around saying "If you reject this, you're on dangerous ground!"

Like what was made known to me, not everyone is ready for certain truths. It doesn't make them condemned if they reject it at that time. The path God lays out for them may cause them to accept it years down the road.

Lutz, when God sends a special message of truth in clear, distinct lines and that message is presented again and again and the light is resisted, we are on dangerous ground. This is what happened in 1888 at the Minneapolis Conference. The Lord did not wait months or years to tell them what they were doing and how dangerous it was to question or criticize divine light. He told them right there and then that this is what they were doing and that they were on holy ground. Read the section from Testimonies to Ministers, pp.89 to 98 again and you will see what I mean.

What makes u think that it is any different today?

The SoP has also warned us about a false sentimentalism that tends to sympathize with those who oppose the light and are making fun of the bearers of the message.

sky

[Woody]

The problem is ...

Some think that their words are the 'words of God'. And thus we have a problem on our hands. This ends up being a club used by some. All in the name of 'light'.

So Lutz ... I agree with you. It amazes me how some feel they are the 'bearers of light'. I am not sure what the motive of that is. But the SOP has warned us of this.

[skyblue888]

Plus no one has been written off or condemned by anybody. This was made clear the other day. Only God knows how far someone may have gone as far as resisting light but the warning is there.

"When one ray of light is disregarded there is a partial benumbing of the spiritual perceptions and the second revealing is less clearly discerned. The darkness increases until it is night in the soul." D.A.322.

"It is dangerous to utter a word of doubt, dangerous to question and criticize divine light." D.A.323.

If we were to listen to some posters, it would be now okay to utter a word of doubt, okay to question and criticize divine light and okay to sympathize with those who place themselves between the light and the people.

It is not okay. It is dangerous especially when the light has been presented in clear, distinct lines.

sky

Not long ago someone quoted a statement that said that when light is resisted or set aside, then come condemnation and the frown of God. This is serious business and woe unto those who would belittle such warnings. But remember also that all of God's warnings are the breathing of unutterable love. See S.C.35 bottom of page.

[Woody]

We should always question light. There are biblical ways for it to be tested and we should follow those procedures. The SOP and Bible are both clear on this.

[skyblue888]

Do you see what I mean now Lutz? It would seem that by your remark you have enboldened someone to say that it is not just okay but ALWAYS okay to question divine light in the face of a clear statement from the pen of inspiration to the effect that "It is dangerous to utter a word of doubt, dangerous to question and criticize divine light." D.A.323.

We are not talking about those out there who are in the dark and the light has not shone on them yet. We are talking about a people to whom God has sent message after message to correct their errors and to lead them in safe paths and yet continue to resist these messages.

We are not to let anyone tell us that it is okay to question and criticize divine light especially when that light is just as simple to understand as accepting the alphabet.

sky

[Woody]

Likewise ...

I will not let anyone tell me that it is wrong to question and criticize divine light even when that light is just as simple to understand as accepting the alphabet.

I learned long ago that it is necessary to critique that which I hear and learn. What is as simple as ABC for one ... is not that clear to another. We ALWAYS need to question and explore or we will worship whatever comes our way. The Devil also can make things appear as simple as ABC.

This is why we must always apply the test of scripture and the SOP.

[Musicman1228]

I agree that 'Truth' is not important right now to many believers in Christianity. Just the stress of life pushes away the desire to learn anything new in the physical realm, much less the spiritual realm. When you are struggling to make the mortgage, or pay for the kids college, or buy gas for the car, truth seems a tad esoteric a persuit.

Yet do you not think that during the first few months of the Shaking (first of the Kingdom of Heaven and then the world) that the idea that Truth is important will not come to the fore? Jesus Christ even addressed this issue, and clearly, when He said:

Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3.

For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. Matt.6:32-33.

It is the desire of Jesus Christ to have a righteous Kingdom here on earth. If it was not necessary to become righteousness because it is a free gift of grace then why did Jesus instruct us to SEEK the Kingdom of God and righteousness. Seeking shows a process, that process is tough, the path to righteousness is narrow and difficult, and few will find it. With righteousness by grace through faith EVERYONE can find it, because all you have to do is 'believe'.

The 'Truth' we must seek and eventually know is that in order to be saved one must be IN the Kingdom of Heaven. This is the 'Gospel of the Kingdom' about which Jesus taught during His entire ministry on earth (Matt.24:14). So as a function of this dynamic, truth is the most important thing we can come to know, and when we do ALL of these other things will be given to us.

By seeking the material first we have put things out of order, and it is no wonder many Christians are unhappy and unsuccessful.