skyblue888 Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 Likewise ... I will not let anyone tell me that it is wrong to question and criticize divine light even when that light is just as simple to understand as accepting the alphabet. I learned long ago that it is necessary to critique that which I hear and learn. What is as simple as ABC for one ... is not that clear to another. We ALWAYS need to question and explore or we will worship whatever comes our way. The Devil also can make things appear as simple as ABC. This is why we must always apply the test of scripture and the SOP. We may question and critique human wisdom but it is dangerous to question and critique divine light. The Greek teachers taught in their schools that the only way to arrive at the truth was by first doubting everything. When it comes to divine light, it is foolishness to God. What the truth wants is that we believe it because it is the truth, because God says it. Then He will give the understanding. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Woody Posted October 17, 2009 Author Posted October 17, 2009 We are told to study to show thy self approved unto God. This means that we should doubt all light until it is shown to be true through an inspired study through the light of the Holy Spirit. Scripture and the SOP are both clear about this. To believe contrary to this is to reject true light from God. And that is dangerous. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
skyblue888 Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 We are told to study to show thy self approved unto God. This means that we should doubt all light until it is shown to be true through an inspired study through the light of the Holy Spirit. Scripture and the SOP are both clear about this. To believe contrary to this is to reject true light from God. And that is dangerous. Wow! To be approved unto God means that we should doubt all light until it is shown to be true!!! If it is light it need not be doubted. "It is dangerous to utter a word of doubt, dangerous to question and criticize divine light." D.A.323. If we wish to go contrary to this divine oracle and do as the Pagans do, doubt everything before we believe, even doubting light from the throne of God, we may, but we shall reap what we sow. If we sow doubt or unbelief we shall reap doubt and unbelief. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Lutz13 Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 I agree that 'Truth' is not important right now to many believers in Christianity. Just the stress of life pushes away the desire to learn anything new in the physical realm, much less the spiritual realm. When you are struggling to make the mortgage, or pay for the kids college, or buy gas for the car, truth seems a tad esoteric a persuit. Yet do you not think that during the first few months of the Shaking (first of the Kingdom of Heaven and then the world) that the idea that Truth is important will not come to the fore? Jesus Christ even addressed this issue, and clearly, when He said: Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3. For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. Matt.6:32-33. It is the desire of Jesus Christ to have a righteous Kingdom here on earth. If it was not necessary to become righteousness because it is a free gift of grace then why did Jesus instruct us to SEEK the Kingdom of God and righteousness. Seeking shows a process, that process is tough, the path to righteousness is narrow and difficult, and few will find it. With righteousness by grace through faith EVERYONE can find it, because all you have to do is 'believe'. The 'Truth' we must seek and eventually know is that in order to be saved one must be IN the Kingdom of Heaven. This is the 'Gospel of the Kingdom' about which Jesus taught during His entire ministry on earth (Matt.24:14). So as a function of this dynamic, truth is the most important thing we can come to know, and when we do ALL of these other things will be given to us. By seeking the material first we have put things out of order, and it is no wonder many Christians are unhappy and unsuccessful. I never said that truth is not important. You do not learn things instantaneously. Things come over time. God gently reveals truth to people when they are ready for it. It will be an "ahhh I get it" moment. If they truly love God, they will find it. Because He will lead them to it when they are ready. And He knows when they are ready because only He knows the heart. Quote
skyblue888 Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 For example, the prophet says, "I was shown that the judgments of God would not come directly out from the Lord upon them but in this way--they place themselves beyond His protection." The prophet was shown. Who showed this to the prophet? Was it God or Satan? If it was God who showed this to the prophet then we are on dangerous ground if we doubt or question or criticize what was shown. The statement above is stated in such a way that a child can accept it and even understand it. We need not turn to the theologians or even to the ministers or to any leading man to know whether it is true or not. If we do we will go on in darkness. "If you see a little light, you are not to stand back and say, I will wait until my brethren have seen it. If you do, you will go on in darkness." Manuscript 1, 1889. God has spoken and we are under obligation to believe. And if there is something we need to understand which relates to that which the prophet was shown, the Lord will make it known unto us in His own good time, but we must first believe Him implicitly. To doubt or question what this statement is saying will only lead to more doubts especially if it does not seem to harmonize with the accepted, traditional view of the church. And there will never come a time when we will know for sure if we have raised all possible doubts. Do you not see how foolish it is to teach that we must first doubt the truth before we believe it? sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Woody Posted October 17, 2009 Author Posted October 17, 2009 Let me ask you a question ... Did you believe in Ernie Knoll? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
skyblue888 Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 I never said that truth is not important. You do not learn things instantaneously. Things come over time. God gently reveals truth to people when they are ready for it. It will be an "ahhh I get it" moment. If they truly love God, they will find it. Because He will lead them to it when they are ready. And He knows when they are ready because only He knows the heart. lutz ______________________________________________________________________ When people are ready! If we wait for people to be ready it will never be the time. "Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation." 2 Cor.6:2. It is always now. sky Of course we are to grow in knowledge. What we are talking about here is that when the Lord sends a clear message to His people it is not for us to say, Oh its okay if they don't accept it right away. The Lord will wait. It is true that the Lord is patient but when He makes His light shine in bright rays upon the His people and the light is not apprreciated by those who have been appointed as the despositories of truth and they disregard it, then we are on dangerous ground. If we are still here in this world it is because the light of precious truth that was presented to the church in 1888 was disregarded. Ever since we have been wandering in this wilderness of sin and sorrow just because one ray of light was disregarded and that ray of light was that the merits of Christ were sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf for pardon and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Woody Posted October 17, 2009 Author Posted October 17, 2009 Praise God ... I am not cursed of God because I am slow to understand one of the precious Truths of God. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
skyblue888 Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 Let us not fool ourselves. We have been told by the Holy Spirit that if we disregard one ray of light we are on dangerous ground. That it is dangerous to utter a word of doubt, dangerous to question and criticize divine light. Thats what we have been told. It doesn't matter who we are, whether the President of the General Conference or the most obscure individual among us. This is the truth and it applies to all of us. What the Holy Spirit said regarding the spiritual condition of the Advent people more than one hundred years ago, on July 23, 1889, He said it more for us than for them. The Laodicean message applies more to us now than it did then. Here is that message. It should not be too difficult to see that it is present truth: "Here is represented a people who have prided themselves in their possession of spiritual knowledge and advantages. But they have not responded to the unmerited blessings that God has bestowed upon them. They have been full of rebellion, ingratitude, and forgetfulness of God; and still He has dealt with them as a loving, forgiving father deals with an ungrateful, wayward son. They have resisted His grace, abused His privileges, stighted His opportunities and have been satisfied to sink down in contentment, in lamentable ingratitude, hollow formalism, and hypocritical insincerity. With Pharisaic pride they have vaunted ourselves till it has been said of them, 'Thou sayest I am rich, and incrreased with goods, and have need of nothing.' Has not the Lord Jesus sent message after message of rebuke, of warning, of entreaty to these self-satisfied ones? Have not His counsels been despised and rejected? Have not His delegated messengers been treated with scorn, and their words been received as idle tales? Christ sees that which man does not see. He sees the sins which if not repented of, will exhaust the patience of a long-suffering God. Christ cannot take up the names of those who are satisfied in their own self-sufficiency. He cannot importune in behalf of a people who feel no need of His help, who claim to know and possess everything." This is the Laodicean message and it is present truth like never before. Let us beware lest we belittle it. The Lord says to us now, "Be careful how you treat it. Take off the shoes from off your feet for you are on holy ground. Beware how you indulge the attributes of Satan, and pour contempt upon the manifestation of the Holy Spirit." T.M.90. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Woody Posted October 17, 2009 Author Posted October 17, 2009 Let's not fool ourselves ... Present Truth is that there are some in this day and age that try to promote legalism and that is the biggest threat to our relationship during this ... the end days. Study your Bible and the SOP folks. The Gospel is clear but the Devil always wants to promote the counterfeit ... And that is that you of yourself ... and your works ... can earn salvation. Resist the Devil. Flee from him. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
skyblue888 Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 Praise God ... I am not cursed of God because I am slow to understand one of the precious Truths of God. Is it honest on your part to make a statement like this Red? How many years have you spent in our schools? you have spent many years studying theology and reading religious books just as I have. You are not what one would call a rookie. On the forums you always have a lot to say about this and about that. You are far from being a shy individual. You always speak as though you've seen it all and heard it all and now you are claiming to be slow to understand the simple and precious truths of God! Please. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Woody Posted October 17, 2009 Author Posted October 17, 2009 We are all at different intellectual levels. Praise God ... I am not judged by the amount that I might have or not have. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
skyblue888 Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 Thats not what the Holy Spirit said what happened in 1888. The light was made to shine upon all regardless who they were and where they were spiritually. If we were to listen to what is being said, the Lord would never be able to finish His work upon the earth and cut it short in righteousness. He has been waiting for us since 1844. As a people we have been delaying His coming and still are because of unbelief. The time has come for the Lord to make bare His holy arm, that is, to roll up His sleeves, to do a wonderful work in and through the merits of Christ. He is now letting the light of His merits and the light of His glory-character shine upon us. He is also letting the light of His presence and power to shine upon His people and that is that "Above, beneath, beyond, abides Infinite Love, working out all things to accomplish the good pleasure of His goodness." Education,134. That "Nature in her work testifies of the intelligent presence and active Agency of a Being who moves in all things according to His will." M.H.416. In other words, we are to learn that "Whatever line of investigation we pursue, with a sincere purpose to arrive at truth, we are brought in touch with the unseen, mighty Intelligence that is working in and through all. The mind of man is brought into communion with the mind of God." Education,14. By accepting these simple truths we are acquainting ourselves with God. This is His message to mankind: "Acquaint now yourself with Him." Job 22:21. sky We will not only be judged by what we knew but also by what we neglected to know. Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Woody Posted October 17, 2009 Author Posted October 17, 2009 The Lord has the ability to do what He wants WHEN He wants. I have no doubt about that. But He still allows us all of eternity to study the great mysteries of His love. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
skyblue888 Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 But as Laodiceans, if we are content with what we have, saying, "I am rich and increased with goods and in need of nothing," we may be sure that we will not have that opportunity to study all eternity especially when we neglect or disregard any ray of heavenly light sent to us. God wanted to finish the work and cut it short in righteousness shortly after 1844 but because of unbelief on the part of the Advent people His coming was delayed. Then in 1888 He sent a most precious message to us and if that message had been received, believed, and acted upon, the Holy Spirit said that the Advent people would have been in the kingdom 2 years after that date. And in 1901 the Holy Spirit said, "We may have to remain in this world because of our insubordination many more years." Evang.696. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Woody Posted October 17, 2009 Author Posted October 17, 2009 I am not aware of anyone here saying they are "rich and increased in goods and in need of nothing." Mostly what I see is people who are suffering and searching. However ... When I die ... the next thing I know ... I will see his Face. That is MY blessed Hope. (And assurance in Him) Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
skyblue888 Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 Of course no one is saying these words. God describes us as though we were saying those very words. We are saying these words by our attitude and by our actions, by the way we respond to the light that He sends to us. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Woody Posted October 17, 2009 Author Posted October 17, 2009 Ah. That's cool. I have no doubt that I fail in regards to my attitude and actions. I freely admit to failing there. Praise God ... he accepts my feeble attempts. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Lutz13 Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 I never said that truth is not important. You do not learn things instantaneously. Things come over time. God gently reveals truth to people when they are ready for it. It will be an "ahhh I get it" moment. If they truly love God, they will find it. Because He will lead them to it when they are ready. And He knows when they are ready because only He knows the heart. lutz ______________________________________________________________________ When people are ready! If we wait for people to be ready it will never be the time. "Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation." 2 Cor.6:2. It is always now. sky Of course we are to grow in knowledge. What we are talking about here is that when the Lord sends a clear message to His people it is not for us to say, Oh its okay if they don't accept it right away. The Lord will wait. It is true that the Lord is patient but when He makes His light shine in bright rays upon the His people and the light is not apprreciated by those who have been appointed as the despositories of truth and they disregard it, then we are on dangerous ground. If we are still here in this world it is because the light of precious truth that was presented to the church in 1888 was disregarded. Ever since we have been wandering in this wilderness of sin and sorrow just because one ray of light was disregarded and that ray of light was that the merits of Christ were sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf for pardon and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. I speak on a personal level. There were many truths presented to me when I was ready to accept them. If what I know right now had been given to me all at once, I would have said "Bah, screw that!" We live up to the light that we are given, and more will be given to us. It is a walk! I struggle with this even today. This post reminds me of what I need to do! You may plant a seed, and it is up to God to finish it. You cannot argue truth, you plant it and let it do its thing. The Holy Spirit does the converting, not you. Quote
Woody Posted October 17, 2009 Author Posted October 17, 2009 Excellent. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Twilight Posted October 18, 2009 Posted October 18, 2009 I agree with you Red. It is between the individual and God. We shouldn't be going around saying "If you reject this, you're on dangerous ground!" Like what was made known to me, not everyone is ready for certain truths. It doesn't make them condemned if they reject it at that time. The path God lays out for them may cause them to accept it years down the road. I have many things to say unto you, but you cannot bear them now... This often illustrates the leading of the Holy Spirit. God "leads" into truth. The devil "forces" truth. It is easy to see which spirit is in control when we understand this simple principle. Mark :-) Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Twilight Posted October 18, 2009 Posted October 18, 2009 We are told to study to show thy self approved unto God. This means that we should doubt all light until it is shown to be true through an inspired study through the light of the Holy Spirit. Scripture and the SOP are both clear about this. To believe contrary to this is to reject true light from God. And that is dangerous. Amen. God gave us a mind, that mind is to be filled with scripture. Then that mind should "weigh" truth. We must not "accept" anything, without it travelling through a conscious understanding. Mark Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Twilight Posted October 18, 2009 Posted October 18, 2009 Originally Posted By: skyblue888 I never said that truth is not important. You do not learn things instantaneously. Things come over time. God gently reveals truth to people when they are ready for it. It will be an "ahhh I get it" moment. If they truly love God, they will find it. Because He will lead them to it when they are ready. And He knows when they are ready because only He knows the heart. lutz ______________________________________________________________________ When people are ready! If we wait for people to be ready it will never be the time. "Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation." 2 Cor.6:2. It is always now. sky Of course we are to grow in knowledge. What we are talking about here is that when the Lord sends a clear message to His people it is not for us to say, Oh its okay if they don't accept it right away. The Lord will wait. It is true that the Lord is patient but when He makes His light shine in bright rays upon the His people and the light is not apprreciated by those who have been appointed as the despositories of truth and they disregard it, then we are on dangerous ground. If we are still here in this world it is because the light of precious truth that was presented to the church in 1888 was disregarded. Ever since we have been wandering in this wilderness of sin and sorrow just because one ray of light was disregarded and that ray of light was that the merits of Christ were sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf for pardon and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. I speak on a personal level. There were many truths presented to me when I was ready to accept them. If what I know right now had been given to me all at once, I would have said "Bah, screw that!" We live up to the light that we are given, and more will be given to us. It is a walk! I struggle with this even today. This post reminds me of what I need to do! You may plant a seed, and it is up to God to finish it. You cannot argue truth, you plant it and let it do its thing. The Holy Spirit does the converting, not you. This is true. Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.