There is a spirit in man...

[Twilight]

I am considering the subject of the "spirit" in man and what exactly that is.

Main texts for consideration are:

Job 32:8 But [there is] a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Psa 32:2 Blessed [is] the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit [there is] no guile.

Pro 18:14 The spirit of a man will sustain his infirmity; but a wounded spirit who can bear?

Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

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Now it is often presented the the idea of "spirit" used here has two meanings.

1. The breath of life.

2. The movement of the thoughts and emotions.

That these usages are unconnected.

----------------------

There is also another view that says they are connected.

That they are talking about the very same thing.

That we have a "spirit" and that "spirit" has capacity to express itself within us, that we have a "spiritual" element to our "soul".

Body + spirit = soul.

This spirit is then an integral part of us and not just a spark of "energy".

----------------------

Please share your views on this subject:

Mark :-)

PS.

This is not a discussion about the immortality of the "soul", we are discussing the function of the "spirit".

Sometimes it is easy to confuse the two.

[SivartM]

I think I agree more with the second view. When God breathed life into Adam, Adam apparently had thoughts and emotions immediately. Then again, He could have just made Adam with the necessary neurons or something.

[Twilight]

I think I agree more with the second view. When God breathed life into Adam, Adam apparently had thoughts and emotions immediately. Then again, He could have just made Adam with the necessary neurons or something.

Interesting thought.

But I would say that the heart is the seat of the emotion and the mind the seat of thoughts.

The spirit itself expressing itself through them possibly?

Mark :-)

[Guest]

When scripture refers to the heart, it is not talking about that organ that pumps blood, but it is talking about the mind. The two are used interchangably.

Pro 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:

The Holy Spirit does not work upon the human heart to compel you to give yourself to Christ, to force you to yield your conscience: but [the Spirit] shines into the chambers of the mind in a way to convict of sin. Youth's Instructor, Aug. 1, 1895.

[Twilight]

When scripture refers to the heart, it is not talking about that organ that pumps blood, but it is talking about the mind. The two are used interchangably.

Pro 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:

The Holy Spirit does not work upon the human heart to compel you to give yourself to Christ, to force you to yield your conscience: but [the Spirit] shines into the chambers of the mind in a way to convict of sin. Youth's Instructor, Aug. 1, 1895.

Could this be describing the action of the Holy Spirit rather than the place Richard?

For instance, the Lord does not force the heart.

But instead The Spirit enlightens the mind to convict of sin.

But what are your thoughts on the "spirit" question.

I am really interested on peoples view on this and why they have that view.

I am trying to understand the difference in the two positions and figure out which one is the true position.

Mark :-)

[Guest]

I think they might be connected, but I don't see where it makes any difference, since it is something completely out of our control. You could believe either way, and still be saved.

[Guest]

But to say that the muscle that pumps blood has the ability to think, or have emotions, would be the same as saying you think with your elbow, or your big toe. Your emotions reside in the brain. Not only is this a scientific fact, but you can see the two (mind=heart) being used interchangably throughout the Bible and SOP.

[Twilight]

I think they might be connected, but I don't see where it makes any difference, since it is something completely out of our control. You could believe either way, and still be saved.

I think it important in the matter of spiritual warfare Richard.

We know that the Holy Spirit has been promised to us, and that it will lead us.

We know that evil spirits can lead us as well.

So if we understand how the Holy Spirit communicates with us, and how evil angels communicate with us, the leading of the Spirit will be much clearer.

To understand the leading of the Holy Spirit, we have to understand how He ineracts with us, as per the instruction of John, (test the spirits).

The better the test, the stronger we will be in our fight, in our warfare.

The greater damage done to the enemy the better.

It is always good to understand the rules of engagement.

So this discussion is in light of these principles.

Many state that the first option is correct.

But I do not understand why they say this.

The second has much merit but I want to understand all points of view before I can accept "anything". :-)

Mark

[Twilight]

But to say that the muscle that pumps blood has the ability to think, or have emotions, would be the same as saying you think with your elbow, or your big toe. Your emotions reside in the brain. Not only is this a scientific fact, but you can see the two (mind=heart) being used interchangably throughout the Bible and SOP.

I did start a thread on this Richard, so will not comment here.

But I can bump it if you do wish to discuss this point?

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

Another bump.

Really would appreciate some thoughts on this. :-)

Mark

[Guest]

I don't know what else I can say about it really.

[Aliensanctuary]

The spirit within means, to me, the telepathic connection that all humans have with extraterrestrial beings, whether good or evil. If we think and do good, we will be telepathically influenced by good Angels, or Messengers. If we think and do evil, we will be telepathically influenced by evil beings. The deeper the pathways we wear in our brains, the less likely we will change.

Jesus was able to read minds and heal via his telepathic connection to Messengers and the Spirit of God, which is connected to us all. This telepathic connection is the mechanism that explains how our activities are monitored and our life records recorded into the Book of Records of the Kingdom of the Stars.

We are all connected to the Spirit of God, but we must be quiet, careful to listen for its guidance. The more we talk, the more hard of hearing we become. In the next life, the LORD and our overseers will communicate telepathically to us, their servants. That's what "prayer" is supposed to be all about. Our pitiful "prayers" here on Earth fall far below the level of communication we will experience in the next life.

Remember, Jesus told us to pray in secret, not in public. Forget whatever our churches practice, we'd best do what he tells us to do.

[Guest]

The evil beings cannot read your thoughts.

[Aliensanctuary]

Evil beings can, and have, overpowered all human resistance, driving their hapless victims mad.

[Guest]

That may be true, but they can't read your mind. And I think that if your connection to the Lord is as it should be, they cannot overpower you.

Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

[Twilight]

Evil beings can, and have, overpowered all human resistance, driving their hapless victims mad.

But only by controlling their minds by "shouting" or "whispering" into it.

They do this by attaching themselves to our spirits.

Our spirit is then controlled by them.

But it is the Holy Spirit, who should direct and control in the Christian (with mans willing consent).

But this is not always the case.

Many Christians have received the gift of the Holy Spirit but are still under the control of evil spirits.

Because they do not know how to discern between the two.

This is my understanding.

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

I don't know what else I can say about it really.

Consider this Richard.

We have a "spirit" within us.

That spirit is the element of our nature the Holy Spirit communes with.

That is the element that is "born again".

It is made alive to Gods presence.

This is done by God breathing life into it.

It was dead to God.

Now it is alive again.

This spiritual aspect of our nature is the part that God leads by the Holy Spirit.

Our "mind" or "soul" then interprets that leading.

Our "will" chooses to co-operate with that leading.

Then Gods will is carried out by us.

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Now if we do not understand this.

We can confuse false thoughts and emotions with spiritual leadings.

Because we are replacing the "still small voice of God", with our own inclinations and desire.

Or we are confused by the enemy, who trys to lead us through our "mind".

(This is easy to confuse as we interpret the leading of The Holy Spirit upon our spirit in our "mind", that is where we translate it, but not where it happens. The leading takes place in the spirit of man.)

Many, many Adventists think that God leads them through their mind and do not even recognise that they have a spirit within them.

This is a very important subject if we want to be able to understand the leading of the Holy Spirit with our spirit.

Precious victories in my own life have resulted from this understanding.

These thoughts are specifically taken from the New Testament, Paul is very clear on this, once we adjust our minds to the fact that "spirit" means more than "breath", that our spirit is more than some "electrical force".

Mark :-)

PS

I have beeen exploring this and wanted some feedback from other Adventists, hence my post here.

[Musicman1228]

The Holy Spirit of God CANNOT coexist with an evil spirit. The example is the Priesthood of Israel bringing evil spirits into Solomon's Temple. When they came in the Spirit of God, The Sh'hina glory, left the temple and NEVER returned. We know this because that temple was destroyed and Herod rebuilt it. When Jesus died the temple curtain was ripped from top to bottom. When this happened do you remember what was revealed? Nothing. The presence of God was not there.

Demons can and do exist inside human beings, but unless that human gives themselves over completely the demon cannot possess them, but only influence them toward evil, and toward illness. Satan can and does attack us physically in both a general and sometimes specific ways. Evil produces sin and sickness. The problem is that many people feel that because they feel they have the Holy Spirit in them that they are somehow protected from the sin and sickness. This is not true. If you are still sinning you are NOT born again. If you are not born again then Satan has legal access to your body. If you are undergoing the process of sanctification then God does protect you spiritually because you have declared for Him. When we become righteous and are sealed in that righteousness we become 'born again'. When that happens Satan will have no further foothold in us and we will be healed from all our illnesses. The 144,000 will not only be sealed in righteousness, but they will also be healed physically from all that Satan has here-to-fore been able to do to them.

This is my understanding.

[Twilight]

The Holy Spirit of God CANNOT coexist with an evil spirit. The example is the Priesthood of Israel bringing evil spirits into Solomon's Temple. When they came in the Spirit of God, The Sh'hina glory, left the temple and NEVER returned. We know this because that temple was destroyed and Herod rebuilt it. When Jesus died the temple curtain was ripped from top to bottom. When this happened do you remember what was revealed? Nothing. The presence of God was not there.

Demons can and do exist inside human beings, but unless that human gives themselves over completely the demon cannot possess them, but only influence them toward evil, and toward illness. Satan can and does attack us physically in both a general and sometimes specific ways. Evil produces sin and sickness. The problem is that many people feel that because they feel they have the Holy Spirit in them that they are somehow protected from the sin and sickness. This is not true. If you are still sinning you are NOT born again. If you are not born again then Satan has legal access to your body. If you are undergoing the process of sanctification then God does protect you spiritually because you have declared for Him. When we become righteous and are sealed in that righteousness we become 'born again'. When that happens Satan will have no further foothold in us and we will be healed from all our illnesses. The 144,000 will not only be sealed in righteousness, but they will also be healed physically from all that Satan has here-to-fore been able to do to them.

This is my understanding.

Consider this MM:

I am placing these quotes in the correct historical order:

This is Peter being inspired by the Holy Spirit:

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

This is now Peter being inspired by evil angels:

Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

So we notice that Peter came under the "control" of the Holy Spirit at one point.

Then a little later, under the control of satan.

Your thoughts?

Mark

[BobRyan]

I am considering the subject of the "spirit" in man and what exactly that is.

Main texts for consideration are:

Job 32:8 But [there is] a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Psa 32:2 Blessed [is] the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit [there is] no guile.

Pro 18:14 The spirit of a man will sustain his infirmity; but a wounded spirit who can bear?

Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

----------------------

Now it is often presented the the idea of "spirit" used here has two meanings.

1. The breath of life.

2. The movement of the thoughts and emotions.

That these usages are unconnected.

----------------------

There is also another view that says they are connected.

That they are talking about the very same thing.

That we have a "spirit" and that "spirit" has capacity to express itself within us, that we have a "spiritual" element to our "soul".

Body + spirit = soul.

This spirit is then an integral part of us and not just a spark of "energy".

----------------------

Please share your views on this subject:

Mark :-)

PS.

This is not a discussion about the immortality of the "soul", we are discussing the function of the "spirit".

Sometimes it is easy to confuse the two.

Matt 10:27-28 man can kill the body but not the soul.

Only God is able to destroy the soul -- and this He does in the lake of fire. "Destroy BOTH body AND soul in fiery hell" as we see in Matt 10.

it is true.

It is interesting that Ellen White describes herself as being taken "up and out of myself" and that "A body with wings" was given her in vision.

William Foy who had visions just before Ellen White - said that his spirit was lifted up out of his body.

The common "illustration" of box with nails is oversimplified and goes too far in trying to defeat the immortality of the soul error. It is somewhat like the Catholic church calling Mary the "Mother of God" in order to supposedly uphold the deity of Christ -- they go too far in defending truth and thus open the door to another error.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

In a number of texts we have "as her spirit was departing" given as a reference to a mother who names their child just before they die.

In John 11 Christ does not say "Lazarus no longer exists - I go that he may exist" -- Christ says "Lazarus sleeps".

Thus the soul is the essence of the person. It is dormant at death - but it is being referenced in those OP texts by Mark (Twilight).

in Christ,

Bob

[Twilight]

In a number of texts we have "as her spirit was departing" given as a reference to a mother who names their child just before they die.

In John 11 Christ does not say "Lazarus no longer exists - I go that he may exist" -- Christ says "Lazarus sleeps".

Thus the soul is the essence of the person. It is dormant at death - but it is being referenced in those OP texts by Mark (Twilight).

in Christ,

Bob

Just to clarify a point about the "soul" and further points for all to consider:

Paul twice uses the sentiment that the "spirit and soul" are to be considered invididually:

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [i pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

So I see this as the conclusion (based on a much deeper study than these two texts - these two texts are used to illustrate the point).

1. We have a "spirit", (this is the spiritual part of our nature).

2. We have a "body", (this is the physical part of our nature).

3. We have a "soul", (this soul is our "personality" or "person", our "identity").

When the spirit and the body combined (original creation), the two components of our basic nature (spirit and body) joined and formed our "soul".

Our soul is our individual identity:

Mark is a soul.

Bobryan is a soul.

Richard is a soul.

But we all have a "spirit" still.

This "spirit" interacts with the Holy Spirit.

It is through this that God communes with us.

-----------------------

But our carnal nature has a hierarchy.

1. Flesh (body)

2. Soul

3. Spirit

So our flesh commands our soul and our soul suppresses our spirit.

But when the Holy Spirit comes in and gives our "spirit" new life, recreates by breathing into it the breath of God, it is born again, or resurrected from he dead.

So then we have a new hierarchy.

1. Spirit

2. Soul

3. Body

This is the correct order of a man.

God's spirit communes with our spirit.

Our mind takes that communion and translates it into thoughts and feelings.

Our will then commands the body to obey the spirits received instruction.

----------------------

When we are "born again" we are newborn babes.

Our "spiritual man" or "inner man" has to grow up (see 1 Cor 3:1-3).

But at this point, our carnal man is still dominant.

Our soul is controlled by the flesh mostly and sometimes by the spirit within us.

But as our spiritual man develops, we grow spiritually.

Our carnal nature weakens and our spiritual nature strengthens.

The question is:

If we do not know we have a "spirit", how can we intelligently co-operate with that growth?

Mark :-)

PS.

I have tried to pull this apart.

Subjected it to the biblical tests.

And it stands up very well.

Whereas the idea that the "spirit" is just a spark of electricity, and all other usages of spirit is talking about our thoughts and emotions falls down when fully tested.

So would appreciate anyone who can really take this idea for a ride through scripture, I think it is a very important study and truth.

[Woody]

Quote:

Christ says "Lazarus sleeps"

Hmmmm. I think I just saw him posting here recently.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Quote:

Christ says "Lazarus sleeps"

Hmmmm. I think I just saw him posting here recently.

teehe

[BobRyan]

Quote:

When we are "born again" we are newborn babes.

Our "spiritual man" or "inner man" has to grow up (see 1 Cor 3:1-3).

But at this point, our carnal man is still dominant.

Our soul is controlled by the flesh mostly and sometimes by the spirit within us.

But as our spiritual man develops, we grow spiritually.

Our carnal nature weakens and our spiritual nature strengthens.

The question is:

If we do not know we have a "spirit", how can we intelligently co-operate with that growth?

This is another issue entirely.

The Matt 10:27-28 "able to kill the body but not the soul" is applicable to all humans - saved or not.

By contrast the point you raise above has to do with "two natures" of man. The New Creation nature given at conversion in 2Cor 5 "if anyone is in Christ he is a NEW creation"

and the OLD nature -- the sinful nature of Romans 3 "we are no different than they--- there is none righteous no not one".

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In your point above - one has to know to some degree that they are "born again" -- or else how can they effectively "persevere" in that state firm until the end - so as to attain to the resurrection of the dead?

in Christ,

Bob