There is a spirit in man...

[Aliensanctuary]

Quote:

I don't believe God makes it impossible for us to revolt.

Once we cross the threshold of death and accept the terms of Eternal Life, it will be impossible for those who are saved to violate the Commandments of God, that is, to sin. It's our choice, and only ours, whether to immerse ourselves in the River of Life, or not.

The Healing Waters of this river will remove our rebellious natures, forever.

[Twilight]

Quote:

I don't believe God makes it impossible for us to revolt.

Once we cross the threshold of death and accept the terms of Eternal Life, it will be impossible for those who are saved to violate the Commandments of God, that is, to sin. It's our choice, and only ours, whether to immerse ourselves in the River of Life, or not.

The Healing Waters of this river will remove our rebellious natures, forever.

It would appear that the "spirit in man" has the ability to communicate to the heart and mind of man...

But it would seem that more often than not, that communion is couched in the heart.

Mark :-)

[Ron Lambert]

I was looking for a statement by Sister White that someone referenced, and in the process I came across this wonderfully clear paragraph in Desire of Ages, p. 804, para. 1:

Quote:

The resurrection of Jesus was a type of the final resurrection of all who sleep in Him. The countenance of the risen Saviour, His manner, His speech, were all familiar to His disciples. As Jesus arose from the dead, so those who sleep in Him are to rise again. We shall know our friends, even as the disciples knew Jesus. They may have been deformed, diseased, or disfigured, in this mortal life, and they rise in perfect health and symmetry; yet in the glorified body their identity will be perfectly preserved. Then shall we know even as also we are known. 1 Cor. 13:12. In the face radiant with the light shining from the face of Jesus, we shall recognize the lineaments of those we love.

Notice what she says here: Regardless of the radical changes that may take place in the bodies of those who are resurrected, their identities will still be perfectly preserved. So the identity is not in the body. Therefore it must be in the spirit.

[Ron Lambert]

Aliensanctuary, I believe that our rebellious/sinful/sin-prone natures will be eradicated when we receive new, glorified bodies at the Second Coming of Christ. Then we put on the incorruptible nature. Part of this must involve eradicating the psychological and spiritual scars of sin. It is our complete degree of surrender to Jesus as we enter the Judgment/Final Atonement ministration of Christ that qualifies us to receive this eradication, just as all the rewards that Jesus will bring with Him are determined in the Judgment.

But remember, Adam and Eve, before they fell, while they were still in Eden, had perfect and sinless natures. They still chose to sin. As Ellen G. White said, angelic perfection failed in Heaven, and human perfection failed in Eden. It is Christ's perfection--the perfection of God in the Son of Man--that will render the whole universe secure from sin ever arising again. Thus Christ will always be our Righteousness. So also will the angels see that their righteousness is not in themselves, but in the righteousness of God, demonstrated and embodied in Christ. It is righteousness by faith that will secure the universe forever!

[Haldog]

We ARE spirits, we possess a soul ( mind thoughts emotions ) and we live in a body.

[Guest]

We ARE spirits, we possess a soul ( mind thoughts emotions ) and we live in a body.

That's not what the Bible says. It says when God breathed the breath of life into Adam, he became a soul. You don't possess a soul, you are a soul. Most of the world believes you possess one, and that it never dies.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

[Twilight]

We ARE spirits, we possess a soul ( mind thoughts emotions ) and we live in a body.

I would say we are "souls" made up from a spirit and a body...

:-)

[Haldog]

Originally Posted By: Haldog

We ARE spirits, we possess a soul ( mind thoughts emotions ) and we live in a body.

I would say we are "souls" made up from a spirit and a body...

:-)

You can say that but it isn't biblical.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

I would say we are "souls" made up from a spirit and a body...

:-) [/quote']

You can say that but it isn't biblical.

I base that on the opening account of Genesis and the creation of man:

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

There was the body and the spirit combined.

The result was a "soul".

A living being.

The body by itself was not "alive".

The spirit by itself was not "alive".

So man is a "soul" derived from his spirit and body.

Mark :-)

[Haldog]

I know this won't be settled in a few posts on a forum but just for reference - I Thessalonians 5:23 "...and may your whole spirit, soul and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

I ask you this. Do animals have a soul?

We of course know that they have a body.

Animals have emotions and thoughts. Anyone ever had a dog or cat get excited when the family comes home or when you get the leash out? They definitely have emotions apart from being just "bodies". Thoughts, feelings and emotions are our soul.

We know that God breathed "the breath of Life" into humans but He didn't do that to animals. So why do humans need the "breath of Life" but not animals? There is something different about us, humans.

When we are born again what is it that we get? A new spirit. Not a new soul.

Fodder for conversation....

[SivartM]

Genesis 7:15 says that animals have the breath of life as well.

[Twilight]

I know this won't be settled in a few posts on a forum but just for reference - I Thessalonians 5:23 "...and may your whole spirit, soul and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

I ask you this. Do animals have a soul?

We of course know that they have a body.

Animals have emotions and thoughts. Anyone ever had a dog or cat get excited when the family comes home or when you get the leash out? They definitely have emotions apart from being just "bodies". Thoughts, feelings and emotions are our soul.

We know that God breathed "the breath of Life" into humans but He didn't do that to animals. So why do humans need the "breath of Life" but not animals? There is something different about us, humans.

When we are born again what is it that we get? A new spirit. Not a new soul.

Fodder for conversation....

When we are born again, our spirit is raised from the dead.

The sense that our spirit is dead, is the sense that it is dead to God.

Think about this:

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Adam and Eve did not die "physically" at that point (on that day), but spiritually.

They died to spiritual communion with God.

When we are born again, our "spirit" is revived into communion with God.

New life is breathed into our "spirit" and we are resurrected.

That tips the balance back to pre-Eden.

Spirit

Soul

Body

But the Soul is still the central defining part of man, it is still his identity.

The "spirit" is the part of man that connects with God. The body is the part that connects with the physical plane of existance.

The soul is the part that chooses which of these will be the directing source of power.

The soul then follows the lead of either of these parts of man.

But the soul is still the identity.

The soul is the part where the "will" resides and all choices are made.

This is my current understanding.

Your thoughts?

Mark :-)

[BobRyan]

Genesis 7:15 says that animals have the breath of life as well.

True. Eccl 3 appears to argue the point that if the spirit goes back to God -- then the "person" is preserved and if it simply vanishes (as in the case of animals) then nothing is preserved.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

There was the body and the spirit combined.

The result was a "soul".

A living being.

The body by itself was not "alive".

The spirit by itself was not "alive".

So man is a "soul" derived from his spirit and body.

Mark :-)

By that definition - a different body -- is a "different soul" so an entirely different body at the resurrection going to heaven - would be "by definition" another soul "going to heaven" not the "soul that lived and sufferred here in this life".

Which is why we should avoid those box-and-nails illustrations.

But if the soul of Matt 10 is a "person" and that person HAS "attributes" like a body (as we see in 1Cor 15) or attributes like breathe and life vs sleep and death -- then the "person" can "get a new body" at the resurrection and this results in the same "person" going to heaven even though they have a new body.

I may have an old car... and then get a new car. I am the same person - but I "have" a new car in that case.

But if you define me as "the car with gas and battery" -- then a new car with gas and battery is by definition NOT the old car, and thus not "me" -- it is by every measure a different car entirely.

So our over simplified box-and-nails model is not working. And the proof is seen in Matt 10 where in the first life the body is killed - but not the soul.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Another idea on spirit within...

Perhaps our brains contain a "telepathic receptor" area, which in most humans is non-functional. Occasionally, though, someone is able to receive telepathic signals from either the forces of good or the forces of evil. That might explain why demons from another realm were able to access and manipulate or overpower the minds of even small children who did nothing to encourage demonic activity.

Via the Spirit of God, Jesus deactivated this receptor area, granting the victims welcome relief from their cruel tormentors.

Once our telepathic receptor areas are restored, we will hear, loud and clear, the voice of the LORD telling us what to do and where to go, just as the prophets of old did.

Interesting story - but not Biblical.

At the close of probation we will see the wicked under the full control of Satan -- then we will know just how "receptive" the Romans 3 sinful nature actually is to the promptings and suggestions of Satan.

What is more true -- is that Angels are extremely powerful and talented beings whether good or bad. Rev 7 and Gen 3 points to the fact that God has settup rules stopping evil angels from doing all that is in their power to do in manipulating mankind.

Isaiah also points out that the communication between God and man is broken by sin -- in fact God tells Moses that if he were to view God -- simply to see him - he would die.

Better to stick with Bible facts rather than storytelling.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Quote:

I don't believe God makes it impossible for us to revolt.

Once we cross the threshold of death and accept the terms of Eternal Life, it will be impossible for those who are saved to violate the Commandments of God, that is, to sin.

The "living proof" that sin is and will always be "a choice available to us" for all eternity -- is the 6000 years of suffering and death seen on this planet -- so necessary to compiling compelling "evidence" against the choice to sin.

IF The solution were simply the Calvinist idea "biology" or "ontology" of the being -- then God would have "MADE US different" to start with. Or having failed to "MAKE us so we could not sin" to start with -- would have done so after Adam sinned. By making the solution be "God makes people so they cannot sin" - all the blame for sin is placed on God AND all the blame for suffering is place on God who failed to "MAKE us so we could not sin" to start with or at least at the fall of Adam.

So as I say -- it is better to stick with the Bible on these topics.

in Christ,

Bob

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

There was the body and the spirit combined.

The result was a "soul".

A living being.

The body by itself was not "alive".

The spirit by itself was not "alive".

So man is a "soul" derived from his spirit and body.

Mark :-)

By that definition - a different body -- is a "different soul" so an entirely different body at the resurrection going to heaven - would be "by definition" another soul "going to heaven" not the "soul that lived and sufferred here in this life".

Which is why we should avoid those box-and-nails illustrations.

But if the soul of Matt 10 is a "person" and that person HAS "attributes" like a body (as we see in 1Cor 15) or attributes like breathe and life vs sleep and death -- then the "person" can "get a new body" at the resurrection and this results in the same "person" going to heaven even though they have a new body.

I may have an old car... and then get a new car. I am the same person - but I "have" a new car in that case.

But if you define me as "the car with gas and battery" -- then a new car with gas and battery is by definition NOT the old car, and thus not "me" -- it is by every measure a different car entirely.

So our over simplified box-and-nails model is not working. And the proof is seen in Matt 10 where in the first life the body is killed - but not the soul.

in Christ,

Bob

How about this way Bob:

The soul is "changed" not "replaced".

The first thing we receive is a new "spirit".

Then our "soul" is transformed or "renewed".

Finally we receive the new "body".

Then the old has gone and the new has come.

Your thoughts?

Mark

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Aliensanctuary

Quote:

I don't believe God makes it impossible for us to revolt.

Once we cross the threshold of death and accept the terms of Eternal Life, it will be impossible for those who are saved to violate the Commandments of God, that is, to sin.

The "living proof" that sin is and will always be "a choice available to us" for all eternity -- is the 6000 years of suffering and death seen on this planet -- so necessary to compiling compelling "evidence" against the choice to sin.

IF The solution were simply the Calvinist idea "biology" or "ontology" of the being -- then God would have "MADE US different" to start with. Or having failed to "MAKE us so we could not sin" to start with -- would have done so after Adam sinned. By making the solution be "God makes people so they cannot sin" - all the blame for sin is placed on God AND all the blame for suffering is place on God who failed to "MAKE us so we could not sin" to start with or at least at the fall of Adam.

So as I say -- it is better to stick with the Bible on these topics.

in Christ,

Bob

Amen Bob.

[Aliensanctuary]

Quote:

EW 53.1

The crowns of the saints were of the most pure gold, decked with stars. Their faces shone with glory, for they were in the express image of Jesus...

Quote:

My Life Today 357

All faces will reflect the image of their creator.

[Aliensanctuary]

The Sticklers [scribes and Pharisees] were all experts in the Scriptures, but they had no clue what the Kingdom of the Stars was all about. It was impossible for them to imagine someone travelling across space and time to set up a Kingdom without them in control. They had the scriptures, and studied them, but couldn't see past their own noses because they had no imagination.