There is a spirit in man...

[BobRyan]

William Foy - who had visions just prior to Ellen White having them -- describes seeing spirits of people in heaven in his second vision and even has the angel tell him that it is time for his own spirit to return to the earth at the end of the vision.

Kind of curious.

[Twilight]

William Foy - who had visions just prior to Ellen White having them -- describes seeing spirits of people in heaven in his second vision and even has the angel tell him that it is time for his own spirit to return to the earth at the end of the vision.

Kind of curious.

It would be interesting to see the quote for that Bob.

Do you have it to hand?

Mark

[Twilight]

Quote:

When we are "born again" we are newborn babes.

Our "spiritual man" or "inner man" has to grow up (see 1 Cor 3:1-3).

But at this point, our carnal man is still dominant.

Our soul is controlled by the flesh mostly and sometimes by the spirit within us.

But as our spiritual man develops, we grow spiritually.

Our carnal nature weakens and our spiritual nature strengthens.

The question is:

If we do not know we have a "spirit", how can we intelligently co-operate with that growth?

This is another issue entirely.

The Matt 10:27-28 "able to kill the body but not the soul" is applicable to all humans - saved or not.

By contrast the point you raise above has to do with "two natures" of man. The New Creation nature given at conversion in 2Cor 5 "if anyone is in Christ he is a NEW creation"

and the OLD nature -- the sinful nature of Romans 3 "we are no different than they--- there is none righteous no not one".

-----------

In your point above - one has to know to some degree that they are "born again" -- or else how can they effectively "persevere" in that state firm until the end - so as to attain to the resurrection of the dead?

in Christ,

Bob

I agree Bob.

Both points enable intelligent co-operative growth.

1. That we have a spirit.

2. That we also have received the gift of the Holy Spirit, which communes with our spirit.

There is so much here in these foundational principles that is so important for an intelligent understanding of spiritual growth.

This understanding has opened up new layers in Gods Word for me.

I think for many new Christians though, they do not realise they have the Holy Spirit, because they do not realise they can have it and STILL be carnal.

Your thoughts are much appreciated Bob.

I am trying to bounce this off of someone, seeking wisdom in a multitude of counsellors.

Mark

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

William Foy - who had visions just prior to Ellen White having them -- describes seeing spirits of people in heaven in his second vision and even has the angel tell him that it is time for his own spirit to return to the earth at the end of the vision.

Kind of curious.

It would be interesting to see the quote for that Bob.

Do you have it to hand?

Mark

It is okay, I found it:

It appeared to me that I was a spirit separate from this body, standing upon the earth alone. No other being appeared to be with me. From William Foy's first vision (he states twice that he was a spirit seperate from his body.

http://www.temcat.com/Remnant-Resource/W-E-Foy.htm

[Lutz13]

When scripture refers to the heart, it is not talking about that organ that pumps blood, but it is talking about the mind. The two are used interchangably.

Pro 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:

The Holy Spirit does not work upon the human heart to compel you to give yourself to Christ, to force you to yield your conscience: but [the Spirit] shines into the chambers of the mind in a way to convict of sin. Youth's Instructor, Aug. 1, 1895.

I disagree with this. I have found new meaning to the two. God actually opened this up a bit to me. It is important to understand that the two are separate. My thoughts may go somewhere yet my heart says otherwise. When I used to pray I used to tell God what I thought He wanted to hear. That was my mind talking. Later I found that it must come from the heart. So I started praying from the heart and prayer becomes so much more.

[John317]

And this, from William Foy's vision:

Quote:

My guide, now, informed me what I must do; saying, "Thy spirit must return to yonder world, and thou must reveal those things which thou hast seen, and also warn thy fellow creatures, to flee from the wrath to come." I then answered him saying, "How can I return to yonder world"? He answered me; "I will go with thee, and support and help thee, to declare these things unto the world." Then, I answered the angel. - I will go.

I then beheld this lower world.

[Ron Lambert]

Recently I have come to the conclusion that the familiar illustration of electricity in a light bulb used frequently in our church to explain the relation of spirit and body is not adequate. There has to be an element of essential identity in the spirit. Obviously, there still can be no thoughts, no awareness, no consciousness without a body and brain. But something besides merely an energizing electricity must go back to God at death.

My reasoning is somewhat philosophical, but I think it is an important consideration in this case, nonetheless.

Ask yourself this question: When you are resurrected, will it really be you--the real you--come back to life, or just a physical copy with duplicate memories, who only thinks he's you? If that were the case, it would seem that God is perpetrating a hoax. For God to be as honest as I believe He is, He must have a way of recreating the real, original person. The only way that could be possible, is for there to be an essential element of personal identity in each person's spirit, something that is the real, original you.

Didn't Ellen G. White say that our character is the only thing we can take to heaven? Well, character does not reside in the body. Character is a spiritual thing.

So I must say I believe in "soul-sleep." The spirit that returns to God in death is something like a soul--but without a brain to think with, it is asleep, in a timeless suspended animation. Also I would carefully maintain that the aspect of the spirit I am calling soul is NOT innately immortal, but persists even in the sleeping state only as long as God remembers it. Anyone--human or animal--that God remembers, He can resurrect, or recall to life. They still live with Him, until He chooses to forget them.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

When scripture refers to the heart, it is not talking about that organ that pumps blood, but it is talking about the mind. The two are used interchangably.

Pro 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:

The Holy Spirit does not work upon the human heart to compel you to give yourself to Christ, to force you to yield your conscience: but [the Spirit] shines into the chambers of the mind in a way to convict of sin. Youth's Instructor, Aug. 1, 1895.

I disagree with this. I have found new meaning to the two. God actually opened this up a bit to me. It is important to understand that the two are separate. My thoughts may go somewhere yet my heart says otherwise. When I used to pray I used to tell God what I thought He wanted to hear. That was my mind talking. Later I found that it must come from the heart. So I started praying from the heart and prayer becomes so much more.

Perhaps one could say that the heart is the innermost part of the mind. But to say it is the blood pumping muscle is the same as saying: you think with your elbow, or your big toe. This is not speculation. It is a provable scientific fact. Also, Mind & Heart are used interchangably throughout scripture and SOP.

The human heart, in medical terms, is a muscle with valves in it, that pumps blood. There is no way for it to think or have emotions. There is however a special part of the brain where the emotions reside.

Again, this is all provable and has been proven. To say otherwise is kind of like saying the earth is flat. But if one chooses to believe that they are thinking with a part of the body that dosn't think, I guess you have that right. And I don't see that salvation hinges on it one way or another.

[John317]

Recently I have come to the conclusion that the familiar illustration of electricity in a light bulb used frequently in our church to explain the relation of spirit and body is not adequate.

No illustration is perfect. Illustrations just give us an idea of the truth-- they are not the truth itself. It's like the parables of Jesus that give part of the truth about the kingdom of God.

[BobRyan]

It is okay, I found it:

It appeared to me that I was a spirit separate from this body, standing upon the earth alone. No other being appeared to be with me. From William Foy's first vision (he states twice that he was a spirit seperate from his body.

http://www.temcat.com/Remnant-Resource/W-E-Foy.htm

Ellen White says something similar -

===============

A body with wings given to Ellen White in vision –

Early Writings pg 39

http://egwdatabase.whiteestate.org/nxt/g...hapter01340.htm

There is perfect order and harmony in the Holy City. All the angels that are commissioned to visit the earth hold a golden card, which they present to the angels at the gates of the city as they pass in and out. Heaven is a good place. I long to be there and behold my lovely Jesus, who gave His life for me, and be changed into His glorious image. Oh, for language to express the glory of the bright world to come! I thirst for the living streams that make glad the city of our God. {EW 39.2}

The Lord has given me a view of other worlds. Wings were given me, and an angel attended me from the city to a place that was bright and glorious. The grass of the place was living green, and the birds there warbled a sweet song. The inhabitants of the place were of all sizes; they were noble, majestic, and lovely. They bore the express image of Jesus, and their countenances beamed with holy joy, expressive of the freedom and happiness of the place. I asked one of them why they were so much more lovely than those on the earth. The reply was, "We have lived in strict obedience to the commandments of God, and have not fallen by disobedience, like those on the earth." Then I saw two trees, one looked much like the tree of life in the city. The fruit of both looked beautiful, but of one they could not eat. They had power to eat of both, but were forbidden to eat of one. Then my attending angel said to me, "None in this place have tasted of the forbidden tree; but if they should eat, they would fall." Then I was taken to a world which had seven moons. There I saw good old Enoch, who had been translated. On his right arm he bore a glorious palm, and on each leaf was written "Victory." Around his head was a dazzling white wreath, and leaves on the wreath, and in the middle of each leaf was written "Purity," and around the wreath were stones of various colors, that shone brighter than the stars, and cast a reflection upon the letters and magnified them. On the back part of his head was a bow that confined the wreath, and upon the bow was written "Holiness." Above the wreath was a lovely crown that shone brighter than the sun. I asked him if this was the place he was taken to from the earth. He said, "It is not; the city is my home, and I have come to visit this place." He moved about the place as if perfectly at home. I begged of my attending angel to let me remain in that place. I could not bear the thought of coming back to this dark world again. Then the angel said, "You must go back, and if you are faithful, you, with the 144,000, shall have the privilege of visiting all the worlds and viewing the handiwork of God. (41) {EW 39.3}

Early Writings –

http://egwdatabase.whiteestate.org/nxt/g...hapter01340.htm

Most of my father's family were full believers in the advent, and for bearing testimony to this glorious doctrine seven of us were at one time cast out of the Methodist Church. At this time the words of the prophet were exceedingly precious to us: "Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for My name's sake, said, Let the Lord be glorified: but He shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed." Isa. 66:5. {EW 13.1}

From this time, up to December, 1844, my joys, trials, and disappointments were like those of my dear Advent friends around me. At this time I visited one of our Advent sisters, and in the morning we bowed around the family altar. It was not an exciting occasion, and there were but five of us present, all women. While I was praying, the power of God came upon me as I had never felt it before. I was wrapped in a vision of God's glory, and seemed to be rising higher and higher from the earth, and was shown something of the travels of the Advent people to the Holy City, as narrated below. {EW 13.2}

My First Vision [THIS VIEW WAS GIVEN SOON AFTER THE GREAT ADVENT DISAPPOINTMENT IN 1844, AND WAS FIRST PUBLISHED IN 1846. ONLY A FEW OF THE

EVENTS OF THE FUTURE WERE SEEN AT THAT TIME. LATER VIEWS HAVE BEEN MORE FULL. SEE ALSO APPENDIX.]

As God has shown me the travels of the Advent people to the Holy City and the rich reward to be given those who wait the return of their Lord from the wedding, it may be my duty to give you a short sketch of what God has revealed to me. The dear saints have many trials to pass through. But our light afflictions, which are but for a moment, will work for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory--while we look not at the things which are seen, for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal. I have tried to bring back a good report and a few grapes from the heavenly Canaan, for which many would stone me, as the congregation bade stone Caleb and Joshua for their report. (Num. 14:10.) But I declare to you, my brethren and sisters in the Lord, it is a goodly land, and we are well able to go up and possess it. {EW 13.3}

While I was praying at the family altar, the Holy Ghost fell upon me, and I seemed to be rising higher and higher, far above the dark world. I turned to look for the Advent people in the world, but could not find them, when a voice said to me, "Look again, and look a little higher." At this I raised my eyes, and saw a straight and narrow path, cast up high above the world. On this path the Advent people were traveling to the city, which was at the farther end of the path. They had a bright light set up behind them at the beginning of the path, which an angel told me was the midnight cry. This light shone all along the path and gave light for their feet so that they might not stumble. If they kept their eyes fixed on Jesus, who was just before them, leading them to the city, they were safe. But soon some grew weary, and said the city was a great way off, and they expected to have entered it before. Then Jesus would encourage them by raising His glorious right arm, and from His arm came a light which waved over the Advent band, and they shouted, "Alleluia!" Others rashly denied the light behind them and said that it was not God that had led them out so far. The light behind them went out, leaving their feet in perfect darkness, and they stumbled and lost sight of the mark and of Jesus, and fell off the path down into the dark and wicked world below. Soon we [sEE APPENDIX.] heard the voice of God like many waters, which gave us the day and hour of Jesus' coming. The living saints, 144,000 in number, knew and understood the voice, while the wicked thought it was thunder and an earthquake. When God spoke the time, He poured upon us the Holy Ghost, and our faces began to light up and shine with the glory of God, as Moses' did when he came down from Mount Sinai. {EW 14.1}

…

As we were traveling along, we met a company who also were gazing at the glories of the place. I noticed red as a border on their garments; their crowns were brilliant; their robes were pure white. As we greeted them, I asked Jesus who they were. He said they were martyrs that had been slain for Him. With them was an innumerable company of little ones; they also had a hem of red on their garments. Mount Zion was just before us, and on the mount was a glorious temple, and about it were seven other mountains, on which grew roses and lilies. And I saw the little ones climb, or, if they chose, use their little wings and fly, to the top of the mountains and pluck the never-fading flowers. There were all kinds of trees around the temple to beautify the place: the box, the pine, the fir, the oil, the myrtle, the pomegranate, and the fig tree bowed down with the weight of its timely figs--these made the place all over glorious. And as we were about to enter the holy temple, Jesus raised His lovely voice and said, "Only the 144,000 enter this place," and we shouted, "Alleluia." {EW 18.2}

This temple was supported by seven pillars, all of transparent gold, set with pearls most glorious. The wonderful things I there saw I cannot describe. Oh, that I could talk in the language of Canaan, then could I tell a little of the glory of the better world. I saw there tables of stone in which the names of the 144,000 were engraved in letters of gold. After we beheld the glory of the temple, we went out, and Jesus left us and went to the city. Soon we heard His lovely voice again, saying, "Come, My people, you have come out of great tribulation, and done My will; suffered for Me; come in to supper, for I will gird Myself, and serve you." We shouted, "Alleluia! glory!" and entered into the city. And I saw a table of pure silver; it was many miles in length, yet our eyes could extend over it. I saw the fruit of the tree of life, the manna, almonds, figs, pomegranates, grapes, and many other kinds of fruit. I asked Jesus to let me eat of the fruit. He said, "Not now. Those who eat of the fruit of this land go back to earth no more. But in a little while, if faithful, you shall both eat of the fruit of the tree of life and drink of the water of the fountain." And He said, "You must go back to the earth again and relate to others what I have revealed to you." Then an angel bore me gently down to this dark world. Sometimes I think I can stay here no longer; all things of earth look so dreary. I feel very lonely here, for I have seen a better land. Oh, that I had wings like a dove, then would I fly away and be at rest! {EW 19.1}

Taken out of earthly body

Life Sketches

http://egwdatabase.whiteestate.org/nxt/g...hapter02522.htm

Nov. 3, 1890, while laboring at Salamanca, N. Y., as I was in communion with God in the night season, I was taken out of and away from myself to assemblies in different States, where I bore decided testimony of reproof and warning. In Battle Creek a council of ministers and responsible men from the publishing house and other institutions was convened, and I heard those assembled, in no gentle spirit, advance sentiments and urge measures for adoption that filled me with apprehension and distress. {LS 319.2}

[BobRyan]

Recently I have come to the conclusion that the familiar illustration of electricity in a light bulb used frequently in our church to explain the relation of spirit and body is not adequate. There has to be an element of essential identity in the spirit. Obviously, there still can be no thoughts, no awareness, no consciousness without a body and brain. But something besides merely an energizing electricity must go back to God at death.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

When scripture refers to the heart, it is not talking about that organ that pumps blood, but it is talking about the mind. The two are used interchangably.

Pro 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:

The Holy Spirit does not work upon the human heart to compel you to give yourself to Christ, to force you to yield your conscience: but [the Spirit] shines into the chambers of the mind in a way to convict of sin. Youth's Instructor, Aug. 1, 1895.

I disagree with this. I have found new meaning to the two. God actually opened this up a bit to me. It is important to understand that the two are separate. My thoughts may go somewhere yet my heart says otherwise. When I used to pray I used to tell God what I thought He wanted to hear. That was my mind talking. Later I found that it must come from the heart. So I started praying from the heart and prayer becomes so much more.

Have you ever considered this idea Lutz:

Your spirit is located in the centre of your being, in your heart.

That when you pray from the heart in reality, you are praying in your spirit?

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

Recently I have come to the conclusion that the familiar illustration of electricity in a light bulb used frequently in our church to explain the relation of spirit and body is not adequate. There has to be an element of essential identity in the spirit. Obviously, there still can be no thoughts, no awareness, no consciousness without a body and brain. But something besides merely an energizing electricity must go back to God at death.

My reasoning is somewhat philosophical, but I think it is an important consideration in this case, nonetheless.

Ask yourself this question: When you are resurrected, will it really be you--the real you--come back to life, or just a physical copy with duplicate memories, who only thinks he's you? If that were the case, it would seem that God is perpetrating a hoax. For God to be as honest as I believe He is, He must have a way of recreating the real, original person. The only way that could be possible, is for there to be an essential element of personal identity in each person's spirit, something that is the real, original you.

Didn't Ellen G. White say that our character is the only thing we can take to heaven? Well, character does not reside in the body. Character is a spiritual thing.

So I must say I believe in "soul-sleep." The spirit that returns to God in death is something like a soul--but without a brain to think with, it is asleep, in a timeless suspended animation. Also I would carefully maintain that the aspect of the spirit I am calling soul is NOT innately immortal, but persists even in the sleeping state only as long as God remembers it. Anyone--human or animal--that God remembers, He can resurrect, or recall to life. They still live with Him, until He chooses to forget them.

My view of this is this Ron:

Our "spiritual" nature is our "born again nature".

That nature has the ability to communicate at the "spiritual" level.

It then relays that spiritual communication with the mind/identity/soul.

When we die, that "blueprint" of our spiritual identity returns to God.

It is not conscious, but it does contain the information of our spiritual nature and may also contain our identity of our "soul".

Your thoughts?

Mark

[SivartM]

Perhaps, like a hard drive, our spirit stores information about us even when we are "shut down".

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Lutz13

I disagree with this. I have found new meaning to the two. God actually opened this up a bit to me. It is important to understand that the two are separate. My thoughts may go somewhere yet my heart says otherwise. When I used to pray I used to tell God what I thought He wanted to hear. That was my mind talking. Later I found that it must come from the heart. So I started praying from the heart and prayer becomes so much more.

Perhaps one could say that the heart is the innermost part of the mind. But to say it is the blood pumping muscle is the same as saying: you think with your elbow, or your big toe. This is not speculation. It is a provable scientific fact. Also, Mind & Heart are used interchangably throughout scripture and SOP.

The human heart, in medical terms, is a muscle with valves in it, that pumps blood. There is no way for it to think or have emotions. There is however a special part of the brain where the emotions reside.

Again, this is all provable and has been proven. To say otherwise is kind of like saying the earth is flat. But if one chooses to believe that they are thinking with a part of the body that dosn't think, I guess you have that right. And I don't see that salvation hinges on it one way or another.

Recent scientific research is showing that the heart has the ability to "think" or process data in a very similar (if more simplistic) manner than the brain.

It is claimed that more information goes from the heart to the brain than from the brain to the heart.

A good search on "heart brain" on google will illustrate these points more.

Here is one interesting link (cannot verify their data or agenda, but worth considering):

http://www.heartmath.org/research/research-our-heart-brain.html

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

Life Sketches

http://egwdatabase.whiteestate.org/nxt/g...hapter02522.htm

Nov. 3, 1890, while laboring at Salamanca, N. Y., as I was in communion with God in the night season, I was taken out of and away from myself to assemblies in different States, where I bore decided testimony of reproof and warning. In Battle Creek a council of ministers and responsible men from the publishing house and other institutions was convened, and I heard those assembled, in no gentle spirit, advance sentiments and urge measures for adoption that filled me with apprehension and distress. {LS 319.2}

Interesting quote Bob, thank you.

Mark

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Ron Lambert

Recently I have come to the conclusion that the familiar illustration of electricity in a light bulb used frequently in our church to explain the relation of spirit and body is not adequate. There has to be an element of essential identity in the spirit. Obviously, there still can be no thoughts, no awareness, no consciousness without a body and brain. But something besides merely an energizing electricity must go back to God at death.

you are correct.

Hence the statement in Matt 10:27 about those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul -- in the first death.

Quote:

My reasoning is somewhat philosophical, but I think it is an important consideration in this case, nonetheless.

Ask yourself this question: When you are resurrected, will it really be you--the real you--come back to life, or just a physical copy with duplicate memories, who only thinks he's you?

Precisely the problem to be solved.

We do not want "a very very good copy of me to go to heaven" we want "me to go".

Quote:

So I must say I believe in "soul-sleep." The spirit that returns to God in death is something like a soul--but without a brain to think with, it is asleep, in a timeless suspended animation. Also I would carefully maintain that the aspect of the spirit I am calling soul is NOT innately immortal, but persists even in the sleeping state

Persists in death in a dormant state "however God does it".

Notice how William Foy said God did it with those "Millions of golden chariots" having "fiery wings". Each chariot specific to one person on earth?

Now THERE is a pretty facinating vision for you.

And it is one of the TWO that Foy was actually publishing and telling "in accordance with God's command".

in Christ,

Bob

When I have looked at this issue of the "soul" in the bible, "soul" is simply the "I" of a person.

The identity.

The "spirit" is something else, a spiritual aspect to us, in the same way that angels are "spiritual".

The difference with us compared to the angels, is that our "spirit" is joined to our "body", this creates our "soul".

Understanding this, has helped me see so much more in Gods word.

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

If anyone really wants to examine the scriptural argument for this, I recommend the following set of three books:

"The Spiritual Man" by Watchman Nee.

It is heavy going at times and you need to read it all the way through, as the author was Chinese and his writing style reflects his culture.

It is not a dip in and out of set of books, but a "start to finish to get the full picture" set of books.

It is completely revolutionising my spiritual walk.

As much as I examine this teaching, I have not been able to find any fault with it.

I am hoping others can examine it as well, as I would not like to be deceived on this and as I said before, welcome a multitude of counsellors on this issue.

Mark

[SivartM]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

Perhaps one could say that the heart is the innermost part of the mind. But to say it is the blood pumping muscle is the same as saying: you think with your elbow, or your big toe. This is not speculation. It is a provable scientific fact. Also, Mind & Heart are used interchangably throughout scripture and SOP.

The human heart, in medical terms, is a muscle with valves in it, that pumps blood. There is no way for it to think or have emotions. There is however a special part of the brain where the emotions reside.

Again, this is all provable and has been proven. To say otherwise is kind of like saying the earth is flat. But if one chooses to believe that they are thinking with a part of the body that dosn't think, I guess you have that right. And I don't see that salvation hinges on it one way or another.

Recent scientific research is showing that the heart has the ability to "think" or process data in a very similar (if more simplistic) manner than the brain.

It is claimed that more information goes from the heart to the brain than from the brain to the heart.

A good search on "heart brain" on google will illustrate these points more.

Here is one interesting link (cannot verify their data or agenda, but worth considering):

http://www.heartmath.org/research/research-our-heart-brain.html

Mark :-)

The only problem I have with that idea is the reality of artificial hearts. Obviously, artificial hearts don't have neurons...

[Guest]

The only problem I have with that idea is the reality of artificial hearts. Obviously, artificial hearts don't have neurons...

And yet they still function and serve the purpose, right?

[SivartM]

Originally Posted By: SivartM

The only problem I have with that idea is the reality of artificial hearts. Obviously, artificial hearts don't have neurons...

And yet they still function and serve the purpose, right?

[Twilight]

Perhaps, like a hard drive, our spirit stores information about us even when we are "shut down".

I would say that is a strong possibility.

But what it is doing whilst it is "working", is the main area of exploration for me at the moment.

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Recent scientific research is showing that the heart has the ability to "think" or process data in a very similar (if more simplistic) manner than the brain.

It is claimed that more information goes from the heart to the brain than from the brain to the heart.

A good search on "heart brain" on google will illustrate these points more.

Here is one interesting link (cannot verify their data or agenda, but worth considering):

http://www.heartmath.org/research/research-our-heart-brain.html

Mark :-)

The only problem I have with that idea is the reality of artificial hearts. Obviously, artificial hearts don't have neurons...

This question was raised before on another thread and I do not have an answer for it.

But I am not sure that an "artificial heart", means the old heart is replaced?

Rather it is a "pumping aid"?

Have you looked into the issue of peoples "tastes" changing in music, food etc when they have transplants (in some cases)?

Mark

[SivartM]

Originally Posted By: SivartM

Perhaps, like a hard drive, our spirit stores information about us even when we are "shut down".

I would say that is a strong possibility.

But what it is doing whilst it is "working", is the main area of exploration for me at the moment.

Mark :-)

Our bodies are like the computer that the hard drive is in. One won't work without the other... but when you put them together, they "work".

So maybe our bodies use our brain primarily to store information "in" our spirit... and our spirit works through our brain. Maybe that's why people can lose large portions of their brains and remain mostly normal...

[SivartM]

Originally Posted By: SivartM

The only problem I have with that idea is the reality of artificial hearts. Obviously, artificial hearts don't have neurons... [/quote']

This question was raised before on another thread and I do not have an answer for it.

But I am not sure that an "artificial heart", means the old heart is replaced?

Rather it is a "pumping aid"?

Have you looked into the issue of peoples "tastes" changing in music, food etc when they have transplants (in some cases)?

Mark

I know nothing about artificial hearts, so I can't answer your questions. It'd be interesting if a cardiologist would come on here and enlighten us, though.