Judgemental Adventists

[teresaq]

re: posts in general,

how do we separate our strong feelings for/against something and learn to mature in Christ.....

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: Overaged

...except of course to condemn a short quote by Ellen White that I did at the end... But I do believe very strongly Dale is definitely very judgmental of Adventists and of Ellen White...

Not accepting or questioning the use of EGW, or even rejecting her prophetic ministry, is not being judgmental, in the sense that I understand the intent of the OP.

Very true Tom; but for the record, I did not in any way indicate that I thought any such thing; my posts reflect a different basis for what I said about Ratzlaff.

[Overaged]

re: posts in general,

how do we separate our strong feelings for/against something and learn to mature in Christ.....

I like this and your last post! The true spirit of inquiry and disagreeing in a Christian way...It is too often said a person is judgmental just because they disagree on something; and that is akin to spiritual martial law. It is a good question that you ask. How to challenge. How to confront. One catholic who is a leading apologist for same; whom I greatly admire for the way he does it is Scott Hahn. I thoroughly disagree with him on many fronts; but he seems like a very nice, sincere fellow. But Ratzlaff...well, I can't bring myself to say the same...Both men say a lot of the same things. But they both do it differently. Jesus did say "you will know them by their fruits so how can it be "judgmental" to make a decision on someone's ministry? Some people disagree with us; and that's fine. But some go well beyond that.

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted By: Kevin H

But once again, there is a thing about knowing them in person that is a lot different from reading their words and hearing their tapes. And I may be guilty of too much blending Ratzlaf and Martin due to their similarities and that I've actually heard more of Martin's materials. Yet while I've read and heard how both men have discribed themselves from back when they were Adventists, to how they are now, I don't see that much of a difference. And again Redwood, my source is what I had read from his discription of himself. Maybe he mis-discribed himself.

Dale freely admits in some of his writing how that Walter Martin was his schoolmaster for his current "ministry" of "reaching out to Adventists."

No, this is not Walter Martin, but another guy who's last name is Martin who has worked with Ratslaf on some articile, who did a tape lecture series against the church that I have and listened too (interestingly as soon as I was done listening to him I got Flemings "Acts: New Discoveries of the Early Church") which although Fleming is a Methodist and not conserned with our little squabbles, sounded like he was presenting a refutation to Martin's tape series. (Now I bet there are things that Radzlaf and Martin would like about Fleming's series and there are some challanges for our traditions, but not for our pillars.) Both Mr. Martin and Dale Ratzlaf tend to spread basically the same message, and I know that I am in danger of reading too much of Martin back into Ratzlaf, just because they are friends and work together does not mean that they see everything eye to eye.

And getting back to Redwood: Once again he and I are in different perspectives, which is also why on the list of church authority Apostels are higher than prohets, the Apostels saw Jesus in person and prophets were dependent on vsions. Once again my discription come from what I've come across Ratzlaf mentioning about himself, and please Redwood, but you have tempted me beyond what I can bear and I have to yield to this temptation: but as you can guess I have not found him to be that dependable a resource, sounds like even his discription of himself was wrong. Once again for me I'm limited to what I have read in his articles while Redwood has actualy seen and known the actual person.

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

re: posts in general,

how do we separate our strong feelings for/against something and learn to mature in Christ.....

I like this and your last post! The true spirit of inquiry and disagreeing in a Christian way...It is too often said a person is judgmental just because they disagree on something; and that is akin to spiritual martial law. It is a good question that you ask. How to challenge. How to confront. One catholic who is a leading apologist for same; whom I greatly admire for the way he does it is Scott Hahn. I thoroughly disagree with him on many fronts; but he seems like a very nice, sincere fellow. But Ratzlaff...well, I can't bring myself to say the same...Both men say a lot of the same things. But they both do it differently. Jesus did say "you will know them by their fruits so how can it be "judgmental" to make a decision on someone's ministry? Some people disagree with us; and that's fine. But some go well beyond that.

I understand what you mean; Elder Canright wrote much like Ratzlaf and Martin do, but he wrote before we learned much of the archaeology that we know today. I find a spirit of honesty in Canright that I respect dispite our dissagreements, which I just have not been able to find in Razlaf and Martin. Wordwise and idea wise there is not too much difference between Ratzlaf and Martin, yet I respect one and the other two I am much more uncomfortable with.

[Woody]

Not sure who this Martin is. I checked my latest copy of Proclamation and the only Martin I could find was a Martin Carey. Is that the one?

[Woody]

Quote:

please Redwood, but you have tempted me beyond what I can bear

Oh. I'm sorry. I hate to be a source of temptation.

I do hope that I have tempted you to do 'good' things though.

But, please don't go beyond what you can bear. Just live and let live. Let it all hang out brother. Don't stress out.