Am I right or wrong?

[phkrause]

Here is my observation:

I think that most here are rather seasoned students of scripture. Most are not amatures.

What I see most doing is that we have our studies and life experiences that tell us what kind of God we believe in.

We thus take that belief and are attracted to those scriptures that verify the characteristics that we see God as having.

Those that see God as a tough demanding Father ... will verify His demands in the Bible quotes that they emphasize.

Those that believe God to be a kind and loving God will find mercy and love in the scripture that they emphasize.

Please give me credit. I have tried to avoid the old tired labels of 'conservative' and 'liberal' and things like 'legalists' and 'once saved always saved'.

But, that IS what I am talking about.

One can find whatever you want and prove it in the Bible and the SOP. And we can argue about context till the cows come home. But it boils down to your image of God.

Just my two cents worth. Am I right or wrong? of course I am right. But, I am also left of center.

I kind of disagree Woody, that we are seasoned students of the Bible. Only because I don't study it like a lot of those that debate over on the theology forum. Yes I read the Bible but don't read or have all those other books. If I find something I don't understand in the Bible or something is kind of missing, I will read what EGW has to say about it and than decide how I feel about what she mentions on this point. I personally don't care for all the things said by many who really don't have the knowledge of a Batchelor, Boonstra, Halverson, Finnley, Richards, etc. I do read through the threads and do like what a few say that say it with some tact. I do agree with rudywoofs that it gets very out of hand, is the way I'd put it instead of confusing. I like the plain and simple. I think that there are more people in the adventist church and all other churches that are more in to simple. Like Jesus said take up my yoke because it is easy, or something to that effect. All he asks is for us to believe in him as our Savior.

pk

[karl]

One can find whatever you want and prove it in the Bible and the SOP. And we can argue about context till the cows come home. But it boils down to your image of God.

Just my two cents worth. Am I right or wrong? of course I am right. But, I am also left of center.

I can't stand it. Right AND left of center?

I got lost in Riverside about twenty years ago and after a number of fruitless exploratory turns I looked up at the street sign and found I was on..... drum roll please.... WONG WAY!!

I kid you not.

[Gerr]

I only have one agenda - the Truth. So I try to take in everything that scripture has to say whether it is pleasing or unpalatable to me.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: dgrimm60

REDWOOD

IF there are different understandings of GOD that would

lead to confussion......the devil is the author of

confussion

dgrimm60

ROFL There is so much confusion in the theology section, it stands to reason that the devil is very much happy with that

theres that "insight" woody was talking about. :)

[karl]

KARL

WHEN I much younger and still living with my parents

about 4 or 5 of my friends went bicycling we got lost

and were looking for some thing we could try to help

us....we went to the corner to look at the street sign

and it read.........

it every one ready for this

it read LOST STREET

true story

dgrimm60

I love it, dgrimm60.

We live in rural Arkansas now, and our driveway is a quarter mile long off a state highway. They allowed us to name our lane when they put up signs a few years ago. Since the lane makes a big loop starting about halfway in, we felt justified in naming it Loopy Lane. But everyone at ClubAdventist knows the REAL reason for the name....

[Woody]

Yes You're right Karl. We all should have guessed that you live on 'loopy lane'. HA HA HA HO HO HO HE HE HE

[Amelia]

Quote:

I don't know scripture other than what I can remember or try to look up somehow. I don't have access to a lot of the commentaries you all have. I'm what you'd call a persona non grata.

That's just a load of meadow muffins. You have the same access everyone else does. It's called the internet. commemtaries, bibles, Ellen... It's all at your fingertips.

[karl]

Quote:

I don't know scripture other than what I can remember or try to look up somehow. I don't have access to a lot of the commentaries you all have. I'm what you'd call a persona non grata.

That's just a load of meadow muffins. You have the same access everyone else does. It's called the internet. commemtaries, bibles, Ellen... It's all at your fingertips.

Meadow muffins?

[teresaq]

We live in rural Arkansas now, and our driveway is a quarter mile long off a state highway. They allowed us to name our lane when they put up signs a few years ago. Since the lane makes a big loop starting about halfway in, we felt justified in naming it Loopy Lane. But everyone at ClubAdventist knows the REAL reason for the name....

that was cute. :)

[LifeHiscost]

I'm not objecting. I don't know scripture other than what I can remember or try to look up somehow. I don't have access to a lot of the commentaries you all have. I'm what you'd call a persona non grata.

I reject that assessment. I'm a person and I'm, grateful for your being here with input. I can believe, considering the background you've revealed of yourself, the company you came from is repeating a lot of lies, contrary to Jesus' best wishes for you, and if you were to seek for Jesus by reading the Word as revealed by the Holy Spirit, first from the New Testament Scriptures, you would find your spiritual strength growing.

"So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."Romans 10:17 NKJV

BTW, you can access a Bible commentary called BibleGateway.com on the internet that has a very good search engine, both by passage and Word/s or phrase.

"Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:37-39 NKJV

Joy!!

[LifeHiscost]

But God is something for each person and it may be different with each person.

"Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me. And because they love me, my Father will love them. And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.”"John 14:21 NLT

Do you think Jesus reveals a different Jesus to every one who seeks Him, Woody?

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever."Hebrews 13:8 NKJV

JOY!!!

[LifeHiscost]

God teaches us each, individually and sometimes corporately, who He is through scripture coupled with relationship.

"If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." John 14:7 NASB

JOY!!

[LifeHiscost]

I don't want to be in heaven.

You will not be forced to go, Rudy. Were you not to be there, many with God our Father being foremost, would be saddened. The door is always opened so long as man draws breath.

"I am the door: by Me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture."John 10:9 KJV

"Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them."Hebrews 7:25 NKJV

JOY!!

[karl]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

I don't want to be in heaven.

You will not be forced to go, Rudy. Were you not to be there, many with God our Father being foremost, would be saddened. The door is always opened so long as man draws breath.

"I am the door: by Me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture."John 10:9 KJV

"Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them."Hebrews 7:25 NKJV

JOY!!

Heaven won't be the same without you.

Gotta have YOU sitting at your place at the table.

There's no one just like you to take your place.

[Woody]

Quote:

Heaven won't be the same without you.

Gotta have YOU sitting at your place at the table.

There's no one just like you to take your place.

Since we can't force her to take her place ... I'll volunteer to take it for her.

[teresaq]

2. But the role of the Bible, used correctly, is to *challenge* our understanding of God, not to confirm it.

That takes courage and humility, which I know I lack, but if all our Bible studies do is confirm our existing views they're pretty much useless... God is infinite, which means there's always more to learn...

i like that!!

that is an exceptional way to look at reading the bible, i think!

not, how does this prove what i think, but what is really going on...what is God trying to say?

[karl]

Quote:

Heaven won't be the same without you.

Gotta have YOU sitting at your place at the table.

There's no one just like you to take your place.

Since we can't force her to take her place ... I'll volunteer to take it for her.

You gotta take YOUR place.

No matter how much you weigh, you can't have two places at the table.

[Woody]

Quote:

You gotta take YOUR place.

No matter how much you weigh, you can't have two places at the table.

Ahhh Shucks. Since someone here told me that I was going to Hell ... I figured I needed to find some good soul that deserved heaven but didn't want to go. I figured I could take their place. But now you're tellin' me that it don't work that way?

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: Woody

Here is my observation:

I think that most here are rather seasoned students of scripture. Most are not amatures.

What I see most doing is that we have our studies and life experiences that tell us what kind of God we believe in.

We thus take that belief and are attracted to those scriptures that verify the characteristics that we see God as having.

Those that see God as a tough demanding Father ... will verify His demands in the Bible quotes that they emphasize.

Those that believe God to be a kind and loving God will find mercy and love in the scripture that they emphasize.

Please give me credit. I have tried to avoid the old tired labels of 'conservative' and 'liberal' and things like 'legalists' and 'once saved always saved'.

But, that IS what I am talking about.

One can find whatever you want and prove it in the Bible and the SOP. And we can argue about context till the cows come home. But it boils down to your image of God.

Just my two cents worth. Am I right or wrong? of course I am right. But, I am also left of center.

I kind of disagree Woody, that we are seasoned students of the Bible. Only because I don't study it like a lot of those that debate over on the theology forum. Yes I read the Bible but don't read or have all those other books. If I find something I don't understand in the Bible or something is kind of missing, I will read what EGW has to say about it and than decide how I feel about what she mentions on this point. I personally don't care for all the things said by many who really don't have the knowledge of a Batchelor, Boonstra, Halverson, Finnley, Richards, etc. I do read through the threads and do like what a few say that say it with some tact. I do agree with rudywoofs that it gets very out of hand, is the way I'd put it instead of confusing. I like the plain and simple. I think that there are more people in the adventist church and all other churches that are more in to simple. Like Jesus said take up my yoke because it is easy, or something to that effect. All he asks is for us to believe in him as our Savior.

pk

i havent read nor "have all those other books", i rarely listen to or read others understandings.

that isnt to say i havent picked up good and/or bad here and there from others but generally i try to stay with the bible mostly and the sop and have now started getting into the pioneers who really knew their bibles!

i find it amazing how much God wants to teach us directly and not through others.

[karl]

Originally Posted By: Woody

But God is something for each person and it may be different with each person.

"Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me. And because they love me, my Father will love them. And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.”"John 14:21 NLT

Do you think Jesus reveals a different Jesus to every one who seeks Him, Woody?

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever."Hebrews 13:8 NKJV

JOY!!!

Jesus is always the same Person, but the salvation He brings is custom designed for each individual. Since each of us is unique, our salvation is unique in order to preserve our individuality. Therefore, the interaction of Jesus with each person is different, in some ways, from His interaction with other persons.

[phkrause]

i havent read nor "have all those other books", i rarely listen to or read others understandings.

that isnt to say i havent picked up good and/or bad here and there from others but generally i try to stay with the bible mostly and the sop and have now started getting into the pioneers who really knew their bibles!

i find it amazing how much God wants to teach us directly and not through others.

I like very much what you've mentioned in these few words. I definitely believe that God wants each of us to read and study for ourselves and make sure what we hear is from the bible, and that includes all those that I've mentioned + EGW, who also asks us to read the Bible to make sure she is who she says she is.

pk

[LifeHiscost]

Jesus is always the same Person, but the salvation He brings is custom designed for each individual. Since each of us is unique, our salvation is unique in order to preserve our individuality. Therefore, the interaction of Jesus with each person is different, in some ways, from His interaction with other persons.

True He meets us where our unique experience has placed us. The blood of Jesus for cleansing is the same for all, whatever the uniqueness. Without the cleansing blood there is no wholeness achieved.

"And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission."Hebrews 9:22 NKJV

"But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8 NASB

JOY!!

[Twilight]

The danger with the opening argument is that it can bring the idea of "relativism" into the study of Scripture.

In other words: "Your truth" is "your truth" and "my truth is my truth".

Yet the bible does not teach this, the bible teaches "absolute truth".

There is an "absolute truth".

And that "absolute truth" does not bow down to "relative truth".

Now we all have to find the "absolute truth" of scripture and indeed it can be done through the agency of the Holy Spirit:

Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

So we have to be careful of this subtle form of "relativism" that some hold.

All of us have incomplete understandings of scripture.

But that does not mean the "scripture" is "relative"...

Scripture is "absolute" in its claims and standards.

Problem is when we start to demand it be "relative" because we have imbibed one of the many false teachings of the world, in this example for instance, that all things are "relative"...

Mark

[karl]

Scripture is "absolute" in its claims and standards.

Problem is when we start to demand it be "relative" because we have imbibed one of the many false teachings of the world, in this example for instance, that all things are "relative"...

Mark

I understand your concerns and I agree that God's standards are absolute. However, the creatures He interacts with are not.

Do you not believe that God's grace is given to you in a form that is specifically addressed to your needs, Mark? I mean your needs as opposed to someone else's.

Is Christ's interaction with you personally a one-size-fits-all friendship? Or is it custom fit? My understanding of the Gospel is Jesus standing at EACH heart's door requesting admission. He says He will come in and sup with me and with each person individually. Do you think He might have a different flavor of tea for you than He does for me?

Are you just a number in the plan of salvation?

The Gospels differ, yet in them the record blends in one harmonious whole. One writer brings in points that another does not bring in. If these points are essential, why did not all the writers mention them? It is because the minds of men differ and do not comprehend things in exactly the same way. Some truths appeal much more strongly to the minds of one class of persons than to others; some points appear to be much more important to some than to others.

[Woody]

There is most certainly absolute Truth. NO doubt. But clearly we don't know what it is and will not till we get to heaven and have all of eternity to study it.

Praise God ... He doesn't knock us over the head with absolute Truth. He gives us spoon full by spoon full ... just what we need at the time we need it and just the amount that we can tolerate.

He does this through His Holy Spirit differently with each person. For instance ... He works on one person to understand the Sabbath ... but totally ignores that issue in favor of another absolute Truth with someone else.

I trust the wisdom of God to do just what is right for me individually. For I clearly don't know it all. And this is why I need to be patient with the rest of you who don't know it all either.