Have you tried and proven Adventism for yourself?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

God sanctified Pentecost as a holy day unto himself ON SUNDAY.

Scripture, please. Chapter and verse.

BTW, do you claim to keep the 10 Commandments?

[B Humble]

Originally Posted By: B Humble

God sanctified Pentecost as a holy day unto himself ON SUNDAY.

Scripture, please. Chapter and verse.

BTW, do you claim to keep the 10 Commandments?

Pentecost

i.e., "fiftieth", found only in the New Testament (Acts 2:1; 20:16; 1 Cor. 16:8). The festival so named is first spoken of in Ex. 23:16 as "the feast of harvest," and again in Ex. 34:22 as "the day of the firstfruits" (Num. 28:26). From the sixteenth of the month of Nisan (the second day of the Passover), seven complete weeks, i.e., forty-nine days, were to be reckoned, and this feast was held on the fiftieth day. The manner in which it was to be kept is described in Lev. 23:15-19; Num. 28:27-29. Besides the sacrifices prescribed for the occasion, every one was to bring to the Lord his "tribute of a free-will offering" (Deut. 16:9-11). The purpose of this feast was to commemorate the completion of the grain harvest. Its distinguishing feature was the offering of "two leavened loaves" made from the new corn of the completed harvest, which, with two lambs, were waved before the Lord as a thank offering.

The day of Pentecost is noted in the Christian Church as the day on which the Spirit descended upon the apostles, and on which, under Peter's preaching, so many thousands were converted in Jerusalem (Acts 2).

To answer your BTW: The true Christian does a lot more than keep from murdering his brother, (thou shalt not murder), my friend. Any self-righteous Christ hating Jew can claim to keep the 10 commandments. The New Testament is full of people claiming to keep the 10 commandments, while they attempt to murder Christ and the Apostles. You are falling way, way short.

[Guest]

So, why do you all accuse Christians of worshiping Satan on Sunday and God on Saturday?

Who said they were worshipping Satan? They can't help that they're caught up in a bogus system of worship, handed down by tradition from the Catholic church. But they will not all stay decieved.

And, I don't know what Bibles you looked at, but yes there are ten commandments. If you need someone to point them out to you, maybe one of us Adventists could help you.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

To answer your BTW: The true Christian does a lot more than keep from murdering his brother, (thou shalt not murder), my friend. Any self-righteous Christ hating Jew can claim to keep the 10 commandments. The New Testament is full of people claiming to keep the 10 commandments, while they attempt to murder Christ and the Apostles. You are falling way, way short.

Sir or Madam, you did not answer my question. You circumvented it. Nice ploy.

Furthermore, you don't know me or how or what I happen to think, except as I say it here. So...you, Sir or Madam, are bearing false witness against me by saying I am falling "way, way short."

[B Humble]

My point is, that in asking whether or not I keep the 10 commandments, is a question that is falling far, far short of where a Christian should be. No offense, meant.

[TWNolan]

B Humble,

I see you are a sincere believer. My Question to you: Do you knowledge the 10 Commandments (as stated in Exodus 20 or restated in Deuteronomy 5) are still valid today? Why or Why not?

[John317]

God sanctified Pentecost SUNDAY as a holy day.

Where does the Bible say that God blessed and made holy the first day of the week. Does He command anyone to keep it holy? Does He say it's a sin not to keep the first day holy?

No. It is just another work day. There are six work days. The first day is one of them. If it a holy day, that would mean there are only fine work days now, unless you can prove from the Bible that God put the first day in place of the 7th day as a day of rest and worship.

If you believe it happened, when did it--- before or after the cross?

Quote:

God sanctified the 1st day of the week as the day of Christ's resurrection and OUR SALVATION.

How do you know this?

Sure, Christ rose on the first day of the week, but that didn't make the day holy. There's no Scriptural evidence for that. Christ's death was just as important as his resurrection, but that doesn't mean the 6th day was special from then on. Christ's ascension was also extremely important, but that day is not made holy for that fact.

What you need is Bible evidence that God removed his blessing from the seventh day of the week and that it is no longer holy. Do you have such evidence?

What do you mean God sanctified the first day of the week as the day of our salvation?

Where does the Bible teach this?

Quote:

Those who attend Church on Sunday are witnesses to their faith in the resurrection of Christ on Sunday, not because some LAW told them they had to worship that day.

Sure, and if they are neglecting the Sabbath and attending church on Sunday in true faith and sincerity, not knowing the truth of the Sabbath, God respects that and accepts their best efforts. It's like people who are married to two women and don't know any better-- God doesn't hold them responsible and punish them for something they are ignorant of. But it is different for those who know the truth, or could know the truth, but reject it and go on disobeying God. God holds us responsible for the light of truth that we know or could know if we put forth effort to learn it.

[John317]

Most devout Christians worship every day not just on the Sabbath day.

Nothing wrong in worshipping God every day of the week. That's great.

I worship God, too, every day of the week. I'm worshipping God right now. We should pray and worship 27/7.

But God set aside the 7th day as special time for Him to meet with those who love Him. That section of time is made holy, having been set aside for a very special purpose.

You should love your wife every day of the week and of the year, but that wouldn't satisfy her if on your anniversary you told her you love her every day so you think your anniversary day is no different from any othe day of the year.

Quote:

Now, my question for you Adventist is this: Why do you all teach that worshiping God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, all that is the only true God, is "worshiping Satan" , when they do it on Sunday?

Where do you get the idea that SDAs teach that when people worship God on Sunday that they are all worshipping Satan? Perhaps somebody told you that, but it is not the teaching of the church.

Quote:

Remember, you all agree that God is the God of ALL the Days of the week, not just the Sabbath. One may quite well say that Christ is Lord of Sunday through Saturday.

Yes, indeed. He is Lord of every day since He made all days of the week. SDAs would be the first to acknowledge this as a fact.

Quote:

So, why do you all accuse Christians of worshiping Satan on Sunday and God on Saturday? Both, worship the same God on both Days???

I don't make such an accusation, and neither does the Adventist church. I have attended church on Sunday with other Christians, and I never considered that they were worshipping Satan. I think you must be taking something you read or heard out of context or didn't fully understand what someone was telling you.

By the way, why are you falsely accusing me and "all" Adventists of doing this?

Quote:

And, isn't it a fact that it's a false accusation, breaking the 9th and 6th commandment?

Yes, it is. So why are you making the false accusation? Can you show that "all" SDAs are doing what you say we are doing? If not, why do you keep saying it? You said the same thing, as I recall, about a year ago on this forum. You were told then that it wasn't true, but here you are, back making the same false accusation, despite what you know of the 9th and 6th commandments.

[B Humble]

B Humble,

I see you are a sincere believer. My Question to you: Do you knowledge the 10 Commandments (as stated in Exodus 20 or restated in Deuteronomy 5) are still valid today? Why or Why not?

I know very well the 10 commandments. The spirit of the law of the 10 commandments are valid because they, like the noahian laws of Gen.9 do for society in general, the 10 commandments form a structure for the minimum acceptable behavior "the Children of Israel". In many ways, the 10 commandments are lacking because they are not the perfect will of God. For example, to restrain from murdering someone falls significantly short of God's will for man. God's will is that man always seek what is best for one another, not refraining from killing him.

The same can be done for not committing adultery. God's will is that man and wife truly love one another from the heart and make their love exemplary of God's love for his church. Just because someone doesn't commit adultery, doesn't mean he loves his wife.

Paul writes that the law (the 10 commandments) was made for the unrighteous and not the righteous. What kind of person has to have a law to keep him from murdering his neighbor???? What kind of child has to have a LAW to make him honor his mother or father?

I have taught my children to LOVE their others, not simply just to keep from murdering them.

So,

if you are a murder, The law is for you.

If you are an adulterer, than the 10 commandments for you.

If you are the kind of person that want's to abuse your mother and father, then the 10 commandments are for you.

If you are the kind that won't think of God or worship God unless God makes you do it, then the Sabbath Commandment is for you.

If you are the kind of person that always wants what is your neighbors and you want to steal it, then the 10 commandments are for you.

The Apostle Paul writes:

1Tim.1:"9Knowing this, that the law is NOT made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

So, Yeah, the 10 commandments are "valid" for those kind of people What kind of person are you??

[B Humble]

Originally Posted By: B Humble

Most devout Christians worship every day not just on the Sabbath day.

Quote:

Now, my question for you Adventist is this: Why do you all teach that worshiping God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, all that is the only true God, is "worshiping Satan" , when they do it on Sunday?

Where do you get the idea that SDAs teach that when people worship God on Sunday that they are all worshipping Satan? Perhaps somebody told you that, but it is not the teaching of the church.

Answer: Why do I not believe you??? Do you know the "Dr." that answered me earlier??? Did you read is reply to me? Did you see the sleazy cr_p he tried to do? I'm betting he's a teacher at one of your colleges or schools. I guess, he thought I was stupid or something. He tried to imply that worshiping, the Father, the Son, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit on Sunday was worshiping a demon or false god!

Quote:

Remember, you all agree that God is the God of ALL the Days of the week, not just the Sabbath. One may quite well say that Christ is Lord of Sunday through Saturday.

Yes, indeed. He is Lord of every day since He made all days of the week. SDAs would be the first to acknowledge this as a fact.

Quote:

So, why do you all accuse Christians of worshiping Satan on Sunday and God on Saturday? Both, worship the same God on both Days???

I don't make such an accusation, and neither does the Adventist church. I have attended church on Sunday with other Christians, and I never considered that they were worshipping Satan. I think you must be taking something you read or heard out of context or didn't fully understand what someone was telling you.

By the way, why are you falsely accusing me and "all" Adventists of doing this?

Quote:

And, isn't it a fact that it's a false accusation, breaking the 9th and 6th commandment?

Yes, it is. So why are you making the false accusation? Can you show that "all" SDAs are doing what you say we are doing? If not, why do you keep saying it? You said the same thing, as I recall, about a year ago on this forum. You were told then that it wasn't true, but here you are, back making the same false accusation, despite what you know of the 9th and 6th commandments.

I think your Dr. answers this one for me. EGW started all the cr_p. She fabricated false prophecies like that the totally false, made up prophecy that will NEVER HAPPEN, a mandatory observance of Sunday law would be passed and forced worship would be imposed upon mankind making it "the mark of the Beast. SDA members repeat that nonsense like it's truth and then build hate for Christianity over a pure fabrication. She built the church on a hate message of other Christians under the pretense of "loving God".

[Neil D]

... EGW... built the church on a hate message of other Christians under the pretense of "loving God".

Excuse me...How does one build hate while describing a loving God? This is just plain non-sense...If you are describing a "loving God" whose picture is better described as real person, who has a character that you would like to immulate, whose actions speak more volumes of love than any "Billy Graham" or "Pope" [insert pope of choice] books on God.....then that is the God I desire to copy/immulate/ desire to grow into....

This "hate message" that you say that we have, is really a message of your true condition...and she must have gotten too you.....describing your behavior and describing it as totally hatefilled.

I suggest that you forsake your wicked ways and move one with your life...

[B Humble]

To Dr. Rich

Let me get this straight, in your twisted mind, you think that people who pray to the One God, Father, the creator of all the heavens and the earth, and in Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the Father, who suffered under Pilate and died was buried, and raised on the 3rd day for us men and our salvation, together with the Holy Spirit, is = (equal) to worshiping the Sun??? It's simply repugnant. It's pure sleaze.

All because were not Jewish Sabbath keepers as yourself. You don't allow the fact that you could be and are wrong. Besides that, I know your people, and you all don't keep the Sabbath commandment EITHER! How is it that you cause others to serve you all on the Sabbath day, expressly forbidden in the 4th commandment? I've seen your people, eating in restaurants, letting others labor on the Sabbath day to SERVE THEM. This is expressly forbidden in the 4th commandment.

"Truth"??? There is no truth in the teaching that Gentiles must live as do the Jews to be Christian. Acts 15 settled that matter 2,000 years ago. Christians were warned of the Apostle Paul not to let people as yourself judge us in regard to the Sabbath day or in any other Jewish practice of days and meat distinctions.

The Gentiles have always been free from Sabbath Keeping. There isn't a single scripture from Genesis to Revelation commanding Gentile cities, nations or peoples to keep the Sabbath day.

The problem is via EG White, you've made yourself under the law and you aren't going to be satisfied until you make others under the law too. Even if you have to go to any extremes to get there. You all will lie, misrepresent, rewrite history, do anything to get someone to live like a Jew. You cannot be trusted, even with the simplest of things.

I've got a question though for you, how did you ever get a "Dr." in front of your name without ever learning the difference between a Jew and an Arab? I mean, you really don't know why Arab's circumcise and don't keep the Sabbath, while the Jews both circumcise and keep the Sabbath. You've never learned why that is, have you?

How in the world come someone be a teacher of either history of the bible and be so confused?? It's amazing to me. I'm just glad your not a surgeon.

[B Humble]

Originally Posted By: B Humble

... EGW... built the church on a hate message of other Christians under the pretense of "loving God".

Excuse me...How does one build hate while describing a loving God? This is just plain non-sense...If you are describing a "loving God" whose picture is better described as real person, who has a character that you would like to immulate, whose actions speak more volumes of love than any "Billy Graham" or "Pope" [insert pope of choice] books on God.....then that is the God I desire to copy/immulate/ desire to grow into....

This "hate message" that you say that we have, is really a message of your true condition...and she must have gotten too you.....describing your behavior and describing it as totally hatefilled.

I suggest that you forsake your wicked ways and move one with your life...

I didn't say "A loving God", I said she used the Sabbath Day in the pretense of loving God, to malign, falsely accuse and speak evil of other Christians. She simply didn't like it that all Christians didn't fall under her false teachings. She didn't allow for disagreement with her. She was worst than any Pope, when it came to bible interpretation. And the SDA has followed in her footsteps.

The SDA, like her, refuse to see that Gen.2 doesn't command anyone to keep a Sabbath but they will insist it was "instituted" there.

The SDA will continue to say Adam and Eve keep the Sabbath Day, when the scripture says no such thing. They'll just continue to live in denial of the facts.

The SDA, like her, quote Exodus 20 and pretend it doesn't say "speak to the Children of Israel" first. They insist it's talking to the Arabs and Japanese..etc.

The SDA, like her is in denial that they want every Christian to live as do the Jews.

The SDA, like her, are willing to repeat false dreams and prophecies about some some purely fabricated story about Sunday law in the future becoming the mark of the beast, over and over until the have a paranoid self-imposed persecution complex over something that never will exist.

It's just bizarre!

[John317]

Quote:

Mr. B. Humble: I didn't say "A loving God", I said she used the Sabbath Day in the pretense of loving God, to malign, falsely accuse and speak evil of other Christians. She simply didn't like it that all Christians didn't fall under her false teachings. She didn't allow for disagreement with her. She was worst than any Pope, when it came to bible interpretation. And the SDA has followed in her footsteps.

How many books about Ellen White that are favorable to her have you read?

Have you read The Desire Of Ages, Steps To Christ, Christ's Object Lessons, etc.

Quote:

The SDA, like her, refuse to see that Gen.2 doesn't command anyone to keep a Sabbath but they will insist it was "instituted" there.

Have you read anything by Adam Clarke on the Sabbath? He was not an SDA, but as a 18th century prominant minister and Christian commentator, he wrote that he believed that the Sabbath was created in Eden and that Adam knew about it and kept it.

The Jamieson, Fausset & Brown's Commentary (also non-SDA) says, "The institution of the Sabbath is as old as creation, giving rise to the weekly division of time which prevailed in the earliest times."

In fact, the Sabbath doesn't make any sense if God didn't give it to Adam. God made it for the benefit of mankind. Why would God keep it to Himself and finally give it to people after 4 thousand years.

There are many non-SDA Bible teachers and scholars who believe the Sabbath was made in Eden and that Adam and Eve knew about it and kept it.

Quote:

The SDA will continue to say Adam and Eve keep the Sabbath Day, when the scripture says no such thing. They'll just continue to live in denial of the facts.

It is true that the Bible doesn't contain the words, "Adam kept the Sabbath," but it doesn contain enough information that many great Bible students who know nothing about SDA beliefs, have believed the Sabbath was known since the earliest times. I mentioned above just two such Bible teachers and well-known pastors.

Quote:

The SDA, like her, quote Exodus 20 and pretend it doesn't say "speak to the Children of Israel" first. They insist it's talking to the Arabs and Japanese..etc.

That is because Israel was His people. You wouldn't expect God to give the Sabbath commandment to the Eskimo at that time, would you? He told Israel at that time because Israel was His special people through whom the Messiah would come. So of course He would tell Israel first. God intended Israel to give the truth about God to the people around them.

Are you saying that God doesn't want anyone except Jews to know about the Ten Commandments? Does He love Jews more than others? He's a God of no respecter of persons.

Today there are thousands of Japanese and Arabs who are glad God made the Sabbath for them as well as for the Jews.

Quote:

The SDA, like her is in denial that they want every Christian to live as do the Jews.

If you mean keeping the Sabbath and obeying the laws in Lev. 11, yes, that is true, but not in order to earn salvation or to be justified by God.

Quote:

The SDA, like her, are willing to repeat false dreams and prophecies about some some purely fabricated story about Sunday law in the future becoming the mark of the beast, over and over until the have a paranoid self-imposed persecution complex over something that never will exist.

It's just bizarre!

Stick around here. We'll have some good discussions and study in the Bible about the prophecies. I think you will see that it has nothing to do with Ellen White's dreams. The teachings about the Sunday laws in prophecy didn't originate from dreams given to Ellen White. It is supported by the prophecies themselves.

[TWNolan]

Originally Posted By: TWNolan

B Humble,

I see you are a sincere believer. My Question to you: Do you knowledge the 10 Commandments (as stated in Exodus 20 or restated in Deuteronomy 5) are still valid today? Why or Why not?

I know very well the 10 commandments. The spirit of the law of the 10 commandments are valid because they, like the noahian laws of Gen.9 do for society in general, the 10 commandments form a structure for the minimum acceptable behavior "the Children of Israel". In many ways, the 10 commandments are lacking because they are not the perfect will of God. For example, to restrain from murdering someone falls significantly short of God's will for man. God's will is that man always seek what is best for one another, not refraining from killing him.

The same can be done for not committing adultery. God's will is that man and wife truly love one another from the heart and make their love exemplary of God's love for his church. Just because someone doesn't commit adultery, doesn't mean he loves his wife.

Paul writes that the law (the 10 commandments) was made for the unrighteous and not the righteous. What kind of person has to have a law to keep him from murdering his neighbor???? What kind of child has to have a LAW to make him honor his mother or father?

I have taught my children to LOVE their others, not simply just to keep from murdering them.

So,

if you are a murder, The law is for you.

If you are an adulterer, than the 10 commandments for you.

If you are the kind of person that want's to abuse your mother and father, then the 10 commandments are for you.

If you are the kind that won't think of God or worship God unless God makes you do it, then the Sabbath Commandment is for you.

If you are the kind of person that always wants what is your neighbors and you want to steal it, then the 10 commandments are for you.

The Apostle Paul writes:

1Tim.1:"9Knowing this, that the law is NOT made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

So, Yeah, the 10 commandments are "valid" for those kind of people What kind of person are you??

You Quoted 1 Tim 1 as saying that the law is for the lawless (ie. the sinner). Are you Perfect? Are you God? He who claims perfection, claims to be God. If you claim to be God, there are 3 possibilities: you have a unbalanced mind, you are speaking the truth, or you are a liar (and if this is the case, a blasphemer) if you re unbalanced, you need help, if you are God, we NEED to worship you. But if you are a liar, WE WANNA BE JEWS NEED TO STONE YOU!!!

[Woody]

Quote:

if you re unbalanced, you need help

This might be a possibility for some. I've noticed that some are drawn towards this problem of being unbalanced.

[Gerr]

B Humble, I'm still waiting to hear what you think of the scholarship of those non-SDA commentators who spoke about the Sabbath of Gen 2:2-3.

I am really surprised by your antipathy towards EGW. How much of her writings have you read?

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: TWNolan

B Humble,

I see you are a sincere believer. My Question to you: Do you knowledge the 10 Commandments (as stated in Exodus 20 or restated in Deuteronomy 5) are still valid today? Why or Why not?

I know very well the 10 commandments. The spirit of the law of the 10 commandments are valid because they, like the noahian laws of Gen.9 do for society in general, the 10 commandments form a structure for the minimum acceptable behavior "the Children of Israel". In many ways, the 10 commandments are lacking because they are not the perfect will of God. For example, to restrain from murdering someone falls significantly short of God's will for man. God's will is that man always seek what is best for one another, not refraining from killing him.

The same can be done for not committing adultery. God's will is that man and wife truly love one another from the heart and make their love exemplary of God's love for his church. Just because someone doesn't commit adultery, doesn't mean he loves his wife.

Paul writes that the law (the 10 commandments) was made for the unrighteous and not the righteous. What kind of person has to have a law to keep him from murdering his neighbor???? What kind of child has to have a LAW to make him honor his mother or father?

I have taught my children to LOVE their others, not simply just to keep from murdering them.

So,

if you are a murder, The law is for you.

If you are an adulterer, than the 10 commandments for you.

If you are the kind of person that want's to abuse your mother and father, then the 10 commandments are for you.

If you are the kind that won't think of God or worship God unless God makes you do it, then the Sabbath Commandment is for you.

If you are the kind of person that always wants what is your neighbors and you want to steal it, then the 10 commandments are for you.

The Apostle Paul writes:

1Tim.1:"9Knowing this, that the law is NOT made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

So, Yeah, the 10 commandments are "valid" for those kind of people What kind of person are you??

Personally ... ?? I am a murderer in need of the Grace of God. For if you commit one sin ... you are guilty of transgressing ALL sins. One sin is no different than any other sin. If you commit one sin ... no matter what it is .... you need a Savior.

If the law is the minimum ... why do you oppose keeping the Sabbath? That is just a start ... no doubt. That is just a minimum ... no doubt. But don't miss out on the minumum. Instead .... start there and see where it can take you.

[SivartM]

Just a few verses after Paul said that the law was for the unrighteous... he said that he was the chief of sinners.

[Gerr]

Quote:

I know very well the 10 commandments. The spirit of the law of the 10 commandments are valid because they, like the noahian laws of Gen.9 do for society in general, the 10 commandments form a structure for the minimum acceptable behavior "the Children of Israel". In many ways, the 10 commandments are lacking because they are not the perfect will of God. For example, to restrain from murdering someone falls significantly short of God's will for man. God's will is that man always seek what is best for one another, not refraining from killing him.

The same can be done for not committing adultery. God's will is that man and wife truly love one another from the heart and make their love exemplary of God's love for his church. Just because someone doesn't commit adultery, doesn't mean he loves his wife.

Paul writes that the law (the 10 commandments) was made for the unrighteous and not the righteous. What kind of person has to have a law to keep him from murdering his neighbor???? What kind of child has to have a LAW to make him honor his mother or father?

I have taught my children to LOVE their others, not simply just to keep from murdering them.

So,

if you are a murder, The law is for you.

If you are an adulterer, than the 10 commandments for you.

If you are the kind of person that want's to abuse your mother and father, then the 10 commandments are for you.

If you are the kind that won't think of God or worship God unless God makes you do it, then the Sabbath Commandment is for you.

If you are the kind of person that always wants what is your neighbors and you want to steal it, then the 10 commandments are for you.

The Apostle Paul writes:

1Tim.1:"9Knowing this, that the law is NOT made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

So, Yeah, the 10 commandments are "valid" for those kind of people What kind of person are you??

You have correctly understood that the commandments as stated in the 10 are MINIMUM requirements. The LEAST you can do to your neighbor is not steal what belongs to them, take their life, etc. And because of this nearsightedness on the part of man in looking at them as the bare minimum requirements, Christ came to MAGNIFY His law and make it glorious, Isa 42:21. According to His sermon in the mount, adultery is not just refraining from going to bed with someone else's spouse. Murder is not just killing with malice. The 10c goes to the very deepest thoughts and motives of a person. And when Christ summarized the 10c and stated them in the positive, i.e. love to God & love to man, the sky is the limit as to what we can do for God or our fellowman. So contrary to what you stated that the 10c "are lacking because they are not the perfect will of God," they do express God's perfect will for human moral behavior. As Paul said, "the law is holy, and the commandment holy, just and good." It is the very transcript of His character. If you can improve on the 10c, let's hear it.

Law is indeed for the unrighteous. But Scripture says - "there is none righteous, no not one!" So we ALL need the law. The difference between the unbeliever and the believer is that the former needs the written code as a constant reminder, whereas in the latter, it is written in the heart. Therefore, any righteous acts we do must be prompted by something outside of us. And why are believers not under law but under grace? Because in the New Covenant, the Holy Spirit writes the principles of the 10c in the HEART! It penetrates the innermost sanctum of the human soul! When led by the Spirit, obedience becomes a delight. The believer will no longer be satistied with the least or the minimum he can do; he strives do to his utmost.

[Neil D]

I didn't say "A loving God", I said she used the Sabbath Day in the pretense of loving God, to malign, falsely accuse and speak evil of other Christians. She simply didn't like it that all Christians didn't fall under her false teachings. She didn't allow for disagreement with her. She was worst than any Pope, when it came to bible interpretation. And the SDA has followed in her footsteps.

[Dr. Rich]

Richard, well it looks like we can agree on something. Rev. 2:24, "But I say to you, the rest who are in Thyatira, who do NOT hold this teaching, WHO HAVE NOT KNOWN THE DEEP THINGS OF SATAN...." Yes, this prophecy is right on point!

[Twilight]

Remember to love the visitor folks...

Mark :-)

[Gail]

I have not been following this topic along, but I've been thinking a lot about the question in the title.

The answer for me is, YES!!!

Everywhere I turn in the church is a blessing. The Sabbath is a blessing, learning about Christ in the Sanctuary is a blessing, the doctrine of the state of the dead is a blessing...

The vegetarian way of life was a REAL blessing! We could afford to eat well through all those years of low income, and to this day my children, although not total vegetarians, eat healthfully, including lots of herbs, greens and fresh produce. The cook from scratch instead of a box- all of them!

Plus church members shared their garden produce with us, every bit of it very much appreciated!

Our two main church families (as we moved while the children were growing up) were very loving and supportive, wonderful people. There were men who took my boys under their wings (their father was an absent father) and made fun memories for them.

I've loved Bible study all the way along, especially how those words of Scripture burned within my heart as those two men on the Emmaus road experienced. I feel that the church was instrumental in helping grow my Christian walk.

IOW... It's all been AWESOME!!

[Twilight]

I have to say that I find Christianity works.

Why do I make that definition?

Because many of the things I have learned that form my practical application of the gospel, I have learned from the writings of non-sda's.

I find that when it comes to the deeper Christian walk, we are very backward in our understanding and literature (outside of the SOP) as a people (either that or I have not read the books that are the equivalents).

But what the SDA doctrines allow me to do, is to "filter" all of those books and bring many precious truths into the framework of a biblically correct understanding.

SDA theology is often the "beach head" from which I can explore Christian literature.

So yes, Christianity works.

Does Seventh Day Adventism work?

In theory, yes.

In practice?

We are still missing some things I think, major things.

Because if it was working, we wouldn't be here...

Mark :-)