emerging Churches... and Adventism

[Stan]

It is not 100% clear what that means anymore..

If it is the WIllow Creek model, then I can say many were excited when we saw the possibilities of this within adventism.

Except for rare cases, it does not seem to have a long live span.

I have no regrets that folks tried it.

Even Mission Catalyst has generally not met the exceptions of those involved.

Can we have a decent discussion on this, without going over the edge?

[teresaq]

i cant contribute meaningfully because im woefully ignorant-except for hearsay-on what emerging churches means...

i would like to see reasons given why it might be good or why it might be bad.

could some practices of this movement be counterfeit of the real thing? if so what is the real thing?

[abelisle]

This is what I've found from my personal experience with involvement with the emerging church movement here in NYC with Faith House - Manhattan:

If you want to make Adventists of people, this is not the place.

If you want to help people enrich their spiritual lives at whatever point on their spiritual journeys they are, this works very well.

Defining "emergent church" is somewhat like defining "postmodernism". When I read about the emerging church and then see it in action, it doesn't look as evil as some Adventists portray it.

I say, the more people one can bring to a higher level of spiritual consciousness, so be it. I simply pray for the Holy Spirit to do his work and step away.

Alex

[Dr. Shane]

I have never been involved with it. This is what I read on Wikipedia:

Quote:

What those involved in the conversation mostly agree on is their disillusionment with the organized and institutional church and their support for the deconstruction of modern Christian worship, modern evangelism, and the nature of modern Christian community.

Doesn't sound like a good thing. I see this attitude in a lot of AA members that have been beat up by religion. Many of them change their attitude as they grow spiritually. Some never do.

[aldona]

It is not 100% clear what that means anymore..

If it is the WIllow Creek model, then I can say many were excited when we saw the possibilities of this within adventism.

Except for rare cases, it does not seem to have a long live span.

I have no regrets that folks tried it.

Even Mission Catalyst has generally not met the exceptions of those involved.

Can we have a decent discussion on this, without going over the edge?

It is not clear what anything means anymore. Every year or two there seems to be a new label or buzz-word being thrown around and used to label groups of people.

Post-moderns. Generations X, Y, Z, etc. Purpose-driven. Emergent. Mission Catalyst. Celebration. Seeker-sensitive.

I have no idea what any of these mean.

meanwhile, all kinds of people continue to attend all kinds of churches. Every church is unique, and is a product of all the various personalities who attend.

What "label" would be applied to my church? Or to yours?

AJ

[D. Allan]

Quote:

I say, the more people one can bring to a higher level of spiritual consciousness, so be it. I simply pray for the Holy Spirit to do his work and step away.

nothing wrong with that. in fact i wish I could myself be brought to such a higher level. well, we can't always be up on the mountain top they tell me anyway. but at least a better view or glimpse . . . . would be good

[antcreations]

How David Asscherick Became Rob Bell (emergent church pastor)

David Asscherick is an Adventist evangelist and the main man for ARISE Institute (and please do not leave out the "I"). Asscherick (pronounced ASH-rick) won the Caricatures of Adventists who's-the-most-popular-Adventist contest by 4 votes over second place finishers Don C. Schneider and Hans Deihl. The prize for winning that popularity contest is the caricature above. Congratulations.

I also decided to tell David Asscherick's life story, or something close to it. Relatively little is known about Asscherick's early years, but they might have looked something like this:

In order to fit in with other kids his age, young David wore a rubber mask and fought crime.

He went through that awkward teenage phase that we all go through.

As he matured, he began to transform into a nice young man who used to be a punk rocker and extreme sports enthusiast, but isn't any more. Except he still likes surfing and rock climbing, which could be considered extreme by some Adventists' standards.

Now he preaches to youths and old people too, and he wears trendy glasses.

David Asscherick, the guy who used to look like Alfalfa now looks like a postmodern, urban guy.

In order to complete the transformation from somewhat geek to somewhat chic, David Asscherick stopped combing his hair to one side in order to look like...

Rob Bell, who is a famous postmodern Christian guy who makes short movies with edgy themes. David Asscherick, who is sort of famous, but not really postmodern also makes short movies that are kind of edgy, in an Adventist way.

source: How David Asscherick Became Rob Bell

[Stan]

Who is Bob Bell??

[phkrause]

Who is Bob Bell??

Ah come on Stan:) I thought you knew everything

He has a huge church in Michigan. And wrote the book "Velvet Elvis". We read and discussed this book in SS a few months ago. Check it out, its very good.

[SivartM]

antcreations: That. Is. Awesome. I love David Asscherick and Rob Bell but never noticed how similar they look. It won't be long before David will be starring in a Nooma video or something.

[Stan]

Peter

My paths have never crossed with his that I know of.

[phkrause]

Peter

My paths have never crossed with his that I know of.

He's not an SDA you know, but you probably already figured that out.

[Stan]

nope never heard of him.... either that or it fell out of my brain.

[phkrause]

nope never heard of him.... either that or it fell out of my brain.

good one. Not sure of his affiliation, but he is a Christian

[antcreations]

David actually produced his own Rob Bell/Nooma-esque videos.

hence the change of look. trying to be hip to reach the pomo mindset.

check it out: http://www.theenzyme.com/

antcreations: That. Is. Awesome. I love David Asscherick and Rob Bell but never noticed how similar they look. It won't be long before David will be starring in a Nooma video or something.

[SivartM]

Oh yeah, I remember hearing about those. I think he showed one of them when he came to our campmeeting years ago.

Another reason to like him. Plus, I think his wife is Romanian. That's reason #3.

[phkrause]

Oh yeah, I remember hearing about those. I think he showed one of them when he came to our campmeeting years ago.

Another reason to like him. Plus, I think his wife is Romanian. That's reason #3.

Yes she is Romanian. She's probably related to Cosmin? Just kidding

[olger]

In the Emerging church movement, it is cool to seek God and not cool to find Him.

say on,

og

[Tom Wetmore]

And your basis for saying that would be what exactly?

I get the impression that in some circles as long as something is considered unworthy of consideration it is also considered unworthy of having honest or accurate things said about it. It's OK just so long as you say something against it.

I recall a very ancient writing that suggested something about not bearing false witness...

[Woody]

And your basis for saying that would be what exactly?

I get the impression that in some circles as long as something is considered unworthy of consideration it is also considered unworthy of having honest or accurate things said about it. It's OK just so long as you say something against it.

I recall a very ancient writing that suggested something about not bearing false witness...

Good Points Tom. I just don't understand the 'bitterness' that is being displayed here by og.

[Neil D]

This is what I've found from my personal experience with involvement with the emerging church movement here in NYC with Faith House - Manhattan:

If you want to make Adventists of people, this is not the place.

If you want to help people enrich their spiritual lives at whatever point on their spiritual journeys they are, this works very well.

Defining "emergent church" is somewhat like defining "postmodernism". When I read about the emerging church and then see it in action, it doesn't look as evil as some Adventists portray it.

I say, the more people one can bring to a higher level of spiritual consciousness, so be it. I simply pray for the Holy Spirit to do his work and step away.

Alex

Hmmmmm...."Emergent Church"...What is that??? Is that like..cell groups or some type of theology or a certain type of evangelism???

...And what is this "spiritual consciousness"??? Is that like telling someone to go to church on Saturday? or pormoting vegetarianism? Being good stewards of the earth while promoting sound republican values???? [aka promoting ecology and being a conservative person like Beck]?????? Or is it something to do with Jesus and your relationship with Him???

Ok, I'm full of questions and I want answers....Someone PLease tell me....please...

[abelisle]

Neil,

The best way to find out is to experience it for yourself but since that may not be possible here's a link to the mission, vision and principles of Faith House, Manhattan (NYC)

http://www.faithhousemanhattan.org/faith_house/mission-vision-principles.html

Speaking for myself, I found it to be a very loving community where everyone feels free talking with rather than talking down to others in an attempt to prove their "correctness"

It's sort of a preparation for heaven since I'm quite sure that it won't be populated solely by Adventists.

Have you heard this joke: "An angel is leading a tour of heaven for some brand new entries and as they pass a large walled off section, one of the tour participants asks the guide, "Who's behind that wall?" The guide responds, "Shhh . . . it's the Adventists. They think they're the only ones here."

Alex

[SivartM]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerging_church

[phkrause]

Neil as far as I know there is nothing wrong with small cell groups. I don't believe this has anything to do with the so called "emerging church". Small cell groups have been going on for many, many years. I'm pretty sure at the end of time we will be meeting in small groups somewhere. I also believe that as someone has mentioned either in this thread or another one, its just a new by-word that is being used at the moment. It will pass to its rest some day and all will be asking so what happen to the emerging church. As far as I'm concerned the church has been emerging ever since Jesus walked on this earth and picking up believers on the way to when he returns. Obviously my opinion or 5 cents worth (with inflation its up from 2 cents )

[olger]

The emergent movement (can't call something that claims to believe in nothing a "church") can be summed up thusly.

* The "We're just in conversation" mantra of the EC is a shtick whereby emergent leaders are easy to listen to and impossible to pin down.

* It is one thing for a high school student to be in process about his theology. It is another thing when adults write books and speak around the world about their misgivings and musings. Which brings me to another aspect of the EC.

* Emergent leaders equate uncertainty with humility. It is cool to doubt and jettison convictions. After all, God is too big to understand and truth too mysterious to know with certainty. Friends, this is not just confused humility, this has dangerous pastoral implications. Uncertainty in God's Word is not a virtue.

* Another aspect of EC "thought" is the emergent agnosticism that we can know God. Bell writes, "Only God is absolute and God has no intention of sharing His absoluteness with anything". Such statements fly in the face of redemptive history, and nearly every page of Scripture. We may not understand God in a neat package of affirmations, but we can know Him truly, both personally and propositionally. "This is life eternal, that they might know Thee.." (John 17:3). McClaren teaches that we really can't know anything about God.

* As I stated earlier, in the emergent movement it's really cool to search for God. It's not very cool to find Him.

* The EC has as a primary goal, the replacement of dualistic thinking. Away with black & white. Away with right and wrong. Up with gray, and up with gray! Richard Rohr (Catholic priest) made this clear (pardon the irony) at the Dallas Emergent conference in 2009.

* Perhaps the most dangerous element of the EC movement is the incorporation of mystical spiritualism. Today it is common to witness candles, centering prayer, prayer circles, transcendental meditation, and all manner of eastern mysticism in emerging church gatherings. These things are rapidly becoming the electricity that runs the EC machine. Coming soon to disillusioned, bored people near you.

I close with the words of our Creator "Have nothing to do with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them."

go forward,

og