The Koran - have you read it?

[Gerr]

I have read the Koran very sporadically before because it is hard reading for me. It seems to take very small Bible vignettes and present them in a very disconnected manner. I have resumed reading and here are some things it teaches.

1. Strict monotheism.

2. God is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, Creator

3. Everlasting hell

4. Everlasting life

5. Adam, Eve, the Fall

6. Abraham, the patriarchs, Moses

7. Jews as the chosen

8. Mary, Jesus as the Messiah

9. "The Book" (Bible) as containing truth

10. Angels

11. Satan, the devil

12. Islam as the true religion

13. "There is no compulsion in religion."

#13 really was a shocking statement to me, considering that they use force to either propagate Islam or force renegades to come back to Islam on pain of death if they refuse.

14. God and evil.

15. Obedience.

16. "The Last Day" (Judgment day)

2 b cont'd.

[Guest]

I don't know where you got these facts, but some of them are wrong.

Quote:

8. Mary, Jesus as the Messiah

They don't believe Jesus is the Messiah. They believe He was a prophet, but not the son of God.

[Guest]

Like all prophets in Islam, Jesus is considered to have been a Muslim, as he preached that his followers should adopt the "straight path" in submission to God's will. Islam rejects the idea that Jesus was God incarnate or the son of God, that he was ever crucified or resurrected, or that he ever atoned for the sins of mankind. The Qur'an emphasizes the belief that Jesus himself never claimed any such thing, and it furthermore indicates that Jesus will deny having ever claimed divinity at the Last Judgment, and that Allah will vindicate him.[6] Rather, the Qur'an emphasizes that Jesus was a mortal man who, like other prophets, had been divinely chosen to spread God's message. Islamic texts forbid the association of partners with God (shirk), emphasizing the notion of God's divine oneness (tawhīd).

Source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam

[SivartM]

13. "There is no compulsion in religion."

#13 really was a shocking statement to me, considering that they use force to either propagate Islam or force renegades to come back to Islam on pain of death if they refuse.

[Dr. Shane]

The majority of American Muslims don't seem to be doing that.

I don't think the civil government in America will allow anyone to do that. Better to look aboard and see what is done in Muslim countries and what has been done in history.

[nuff sed]

I don't really think that the Civil government can stop the burning...

They may try some sort of intimidation tactic but it would only stall the event for a little while. If I didn't have to preach next Sabbath I think that I would go up there to see what is going to happen. Nuff sed

[Dr. Shane]

What I was responding to was compelling people to join a religion. In the US, the civil government will not allow a religion to force others to join it.

[Dr. Shane]

Does the Koran have prophecy in it that has happened and thus can prove its divinity?

[Gerr]

I don't know where you got these facts, but some of them are wrong.

Quote:

8. Mary, Jesus as the Messiah

They don't believe Jesus is the Messiah. They believe He was a prophet, but not the son of God.

What the Koran says and what the expositors of what it says may not be in harmony, just as we see that a lot of what many Christians teach is not really in accord with what the Bible says.

My reference is:The Koran Interpreted

A Translation by A. J. Arberry

Copyright 1955

Quote: "When the angels said, 'Mary, God gives thee good tidings of a Word from Him whose name is Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary; high honoured shall hge be in this world and the next, near stationed to God." Chapter III, line 40, p. 79.

[Gerr]

Does the Koran have prophecy in it that has happened and thus can prove its divinity?

I can't answer that right now. I haven't finished the book.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

13. "There is no compulsion in religion."

#13 really was a shocking statement to me, considering that they use force to either propagate Islam or force renegades to come back to Islam on pain of death if they refuse.

Who is "they"? The majority of American Muslims don't seem to be doing that.

How do you think Islam spread in the beginning? Do you know what relatives to their kin who converts to another religion?

And why do you think there are no Christian churches in Saudi Arabia?

[Gerr]

#14 should read: Good and evil.

17. The Koran teaches also the Resurrection.

18. Abraham was neither Jew nor Christian, but a Muslim.

19. That "muhammad is naught but a Messenger."

[John317]

My reference is:The Koran Interpreted

A Translation by A. J. Arberry

Copyright 1955

Quote: "When the angels said, 'Mary, God gives thee good tidings of a Word from Him whose name is Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary; high honoured shall hge be in this world and the next, near stationed to God." Chapter III, line 40, p. 79.

This is found in Surah III: 45.

The Muslims don't understand Messiah the same way that the Christians do. For them Jesus was not even the most important prophet of Allah and he wasn't divine.

One commentary by a Muslim teacher, Maulana Humhammad Ali, says, "The literal significance of Masih is either one who travels much or one wiped over with some such thing as oil."

The Qu'ran teaches that Jesus ['Isa] didn't die on the cross and he never existed in heaven prior to living on earth. It denies categorically that Jesus is the Son of God and says that anyone who teaches Jesus is the Son of God is a liar. Allah forgives sin without the necessity of any kind of atonement or the shedding of blood.

Surah 25: 36 says that the wicked will not die in hell. Surah 43: 71, 74 says the wicked are immortal in hell. (Translated by Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall.) Other translations say the wicked will "abide" in hell.

[Dr. Rich]

So Richard, in other words, the Qur'an teaches that Jesus was just a human decendant of David? Isn't this the same thing that Paul's words teach? Perhaps the only difference here is that Paul said that Jesus became the Son of God when he was reserected by God.

The Qur'an as a Muslim bible came into existance after the New Testament so Muslims do not believe in Paul's words--such as Jesus was the Atonement for the sins of everyone.

I do find it interesting that the Qur'an teaches that Jesus as a true prophet, but herein is the problem--how can they say Jesus is a true prophet and then not believe in the very words of Jesus given to us by the eyewitnesses?

The writer of the Qur'an was not an eyewitness and neither was Paul. It therefore is amazing that two major religions were started from people claiming to be sent by God, but neither one has anyone to verify if this was true and neither one ever knew Jesus.

Daniel's prophecy about the King of the North and the King of the South sure fit both of these.

[Guest]

Paul knew Jesus a lot more than you do...

[olger]

:)

[Guest]

The writer of the Qur'an was not an eyewitness and neither was Paul.

If I didn't know you, I would have to say you are friends with beelzebub. (close friends) But since I know you, I know that you are only mis-led and severely confused.

[Guest]

OLGER!!!! YOU'RE BACK!!!!

[SivartM]

If I didn't know you, I would have to say you are friends with beelzebub. (close friends) But since I know you, I know that you are only mis-led and severely confused.

[Guest]

Why do you have to say any of that?

Rich is my friend, and I'll say whatever I want. Why do you have to say anything about it? Shouldn't you be somewhere practicing the presence of god?

[Dr. Shane]

The writer of the Qur'an was not an eyewitness and neither was Paul.

"Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are not ye my work in the Lord?" (1 Cor. 9:1)

[Dr. Rich]

Hmmm? with frinds like this who needs any enemies? Yes, I know your view of things and I have been trying to get you to take off those same glasses that Paul was wearing when he said he only sees things dimly.

Didn't I read somewhere that the Qu'ran says that it is ok for Muslims to lie in order to gain acceptance of others in the furtherence of the religion? If this is so, didn't Paul say about the same thing and boasted about it? Hmmm?

I hear that people believe Obama is a muslim and lied to be president and that it was ok be cause the Qu'ran sais so. Paul said he would be and do all things in order for people to accept his gosple. Well then, what is the difference?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

13. "There is no compulsion in religion."

#13 really was a shocking statement to me, considering that they use force to either propagate Islam or force renegades to come back to Islam on pain of death if they refuse.

Who is "they"? The majority of American Muslims don't seem to be doing that.

The majority of Muslims don't live in America.

[LifeHiscost]

What I was responding to was compelling people to join a religion. In the US, the civil government will not allow a religion to force others to join it.

Not yet. Multiplied prophecies as outlined in the last eight chapters of the book, "The Great Controversy', HAVE ALREADY TAKEN PLACE OR ARE NOW moving in that direction, so much so that it is difficult to believe that President Obama will finish out his second term before our Lord makes His second grand entrance into this world. And the religious exercise that will be enforced is not Sharia law.

Blessings!

[Gerr]

Hey, what's up? This is your first post I've seen in a while. I tried to pm you, but the message I got is that you are over the limit. I don't know what that means. I hope everything is ok with you and your family.