Good Morning + Happy 9-11 to all of U

[Paula]

Paula,

No one can explain or justify the fall of WTC Building 7 at 5:20 PM on Sept. 11th.

It was kept out of the media, out of public discussion, and out of the Official 9/11 Commission Report.

It's proof of media conspiracy and cover-up. 47 stories disintegrate in 7 seconds. In Manhattan. No press??

Raising controversial topics invites personal attacks, sarcasm, ridicule, and it's one cost of independant thinking. But it shows there are no valid rebuttals. As you've clearly said, SDAs should be at the forefront of public awareness with all the light we've been given & I fully agree. But while 9/11 is a type of litmus test to gauge our compliance with NWO agenda, even this can be an absorbing distraction away from Bible study. It's one of many such issues, but nothing deserves our attention more than the Word. Not all doubters will be convinced and thankfully this is not our burden.

WTC Building 7 Research:

http://www.wtc7.net/

you make very good points Gordon!!!!

As for WTC 7 lets not forget that its collapse was reported 30 minutes before it actually happened... hmmmmm

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/88.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW_JRe67v1g

Also, wtc7 was predicted to fall on nbc before it actually happened...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-WZpXiEKAo&feature=related

no jet fuel, no impact by planes, no major fire... no reason for it to come down (as stated before other steel framed buildings have burned for over 17 hours without collapsing)

[Paula]

also norad simulated the 911 attacks in war games months in advance:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-04-18-norad_x.htm

[John317]

Shane, as a building professional with experience in steel frames you probably know about this:

Fires Have Never Caused Skyscrapers to Collapse ....

You didn't cite the source for this information. You claim you did, but on what post?

[John317]

also norad simulated the 911 attacks in war games months in advance:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-04-18-norad_x.htm

But what does this prove? They practice various kinds of scenarios all the time. Are we to think that if one of the scenarios actually occurs, it must have been planned by the government?

You need to show a connection between the exercises and 9/11. What's the connection?

[John317]

wow Pam... I haven't shared my sources?!?!?!? Thats funny considering I posted the websites a few comments back... maybe if you actually read all my posts and clicked on the links I provided you'd know that.... or maybe you just like falsely accusing people. ...

You didn't share the source of the information on your post.

Where did you post the link to the cite which you copied from on your post #393708 - Today at 06:54 PM ?

This is where you got it from but when we read your post, there's no indication that it was from this source:

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/fires.html

Therefore Pam was not falsely accusing anyone but was right to point it out.

[John317]

Have you read the booklets by SDA Bill Hughes:

The Secret Terrorists http://www.pacinst.com/terrorists/preamble.html

Yes, I've read this book.

I think a lot that he says is true, but there are parts of it that I haven't been able to verify. For instance, I would like to see the sources for his quotes of Abraham Lincoln regarding the Jesuits. Also, I would like to verify his theory about what took place at Oklahoma City.

If the US government and the American president were responsible for the Oklahoma City bombing and 9/11, Americans would have reason to overthrow the current government and execute the people responsible. The government doing such a thing would be the greatest act of betrayal to the nation.

I don't believe it happened. If I believed it did, I wouldn't be sitting here talking about it.

What do you know about Bill Hughes? I know he's a former SDA pastor. I believe I saw a video of him last year saying that Roy Allen Anderson and LeRoy Froom were Catholic priests. Do you know anything about this?

[Paula]

Originally Posted By: Paula

wow Pam... I haven't shared my sources?!?!?!? Thats funny considering I posted the websites a few comments back... maybe if you actually read all my posts and clicked on the links I provided you'd know that.... or maybe you just like falsely accusing people. ...

You didn't share the source of the information on your post.

Where did you post the link to the cite which you copied from on your post #393708 - Today at 06:54 PM ?

This is where you got it from but when we read your post, there's no indication that it was from this source:

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/fires.html

Therefore Pam was not falsely accusing anyone but was right to point it out.

John,

I gave the link to the picture which was part of the article... that is, in fact how rudy found the site... it was a link off of the firefighters for truth site... if I had not given the link to the picture she would not have the site.. so in giving the picture I gave the source... also about 4 or 5 posts back I gave the link (twice I believe) to the patriots for 911 truth which does contain all the sources as it links to the firefighters for truth, as well as the architects and engineers for truth, professors for truth, military for truth, etc.. I thought of posting each one individually but felt like it might be overkill... so instead I gave ONE source, from which anyone could easily go to all of them. If anyone had taken the time to do so they would have been able to.

If I am here telling people to research this, and that they need to take the time to look into it, why would I be hiding my sources? My goal is FOR people to educate themselves on this subject... so to accuse me of HIDING my sources, is really counter-intuitive don't you think?

Anyways...

As for my journalistic experience, it's been over 10 years since I have worked as a journalist. I wrote for about 3 years for the Sun-Sentinel, I've had articles published by the Miami Herald, and even had a few "articles" published in Southern Tidings while I was still in High School, as I was the churches Communication Director at the time (I was the Editor of the High School paper and actually knew how to use Adobe PageMaker and Adobe Illustrator. This was something my pastor I felt qualified me for the position.. lol....) My husband and I had a little 1 hour daily Christian radio program in Portuguese on AM radio here in South Florida for about 1 year... I had to stop working because of immigration issues with my Resident Status, even though I had lived EXCLUSIVELY in the US since I was 3, my parents were citizens, and my siblings were all born here (a WHOLE other LONG story on what is so wrong with our Immigration System, which stole about 10 years of my life....) While we waited, I did odd jobs.. I worked as a freelance courthouse interpreter/translator, Church Interpreter/Translator, travel agent, and even for an import/export company, etc.. etc.. So there you have it.. a little bit about my background.

[Gordon1]

Hi John,

Bill Hughes has rendered a service by assembling important facts relating to the Great Controversy in compact affordable booklets. The Enemy Unmasked is a companion volume explaining the role of governments, CFR and others in preparing the world for totalitarian rule.

Would that all Adventists were as forthright and efficient in getting out the facts, even if they missed some points. Think what would happen if the GC or Religious Liberty were behind such a project with their vast resources. Will never happen. Leave it to the laymen, for they are prophesied to be the ones to finish the work.

From memory, Hughes' discussion of Abraham Lincoln is an excerpt from an older book entitled 'Fifty Years in the Church of Rome' (1885) by former Roman Catholic priest Charles Chiniquy.

Chiniquy was born and lived in Québec, Canada, the hub of Catholicism for Canada & the U.S. Almost every small village in Québec has a large RC Church and a very high percentage of the population have RC roots and are mostly french-speaking. Chiniquy loved serving his congregants and hated the oppression of the hierarchy. But the Catholic system was the only way he knew to serve Christ, for it was pervasive and dominant. He eventually left to join a Protestant denomination. The Canadian government even honored him for his work as an 'Apostle of Temperance' - convincing many towns to become dry by the closing of taverns due to his preaching and influence. For this the people loved him, as order and harmony were restored to homes and communities. But his above mentioned autobiography details the exact same methods used to cover the sexual sins of the clergy as are employed by the Churches today (including Adventism). Silence the victims, move the perpetrator to another district. This was routine church policy and he claimed very few priests were celibate or sober. (He also authored smaller books such as 'The Woman, the Priest and the Confessional.')

The original 'Fifty Years' is over 600 pp. of fine print, though abridged versions have since been published. So depending on your eye for detail. It's an important primer for North American Protestants. Chiniquy was commissioned by the Church to secure the United States to their control by settling Québecers in the productive Mississippi River Valley in Illinois and beyond. (For this reason the many French-named towns - often prefixed by 'Saint') As you might know Chicago remains one of the world's most powerful RC Dioceses, a national agro-commercial hub and a home of Cosa Nostra politics. No coincidence here. Messing with the Bishop of Chicago is war. (As Chiniquy & Lincoln both discovered.)

(I believe Hughes quoted his source for that chapter).

More...

[Gordon1]

Paula,

Thanks for your important & interesting input. Courtroom experience is valuable too. (Bill Hughes is upstate from you in Eustis, FL.)

[fccool]

The story of 9-11 collapses is a story of common sense. People love "sources", yet all you have to do is to read the 9-11 report and think logically.

1) Evidence: People heard multiple explosions on the scene. Reporters reported multiple explosions, including a series of explosions prior to collapse.

2) Evidence: Molten pools of metal and concrete. Hydrocarbon fuel can't do it under normal circumstances. You'd have to have a furnace with substantial inflow of oxygen, yet the metal kept hot and red for days under the rubble. There's plentiful evidence if you look for it.

3) The WTCs falling down did not look like any conventional building falling due to a structural damage. It's a steel building that was built to withstand a very high impact of the wind force. It was not built to crumple under its own weight. If pancake theory is true, then it's an incredible failure of architects and engineers.

The towers fell in their own footprint, with concrete being pulverized into dust. Some of the contents where computer chips. Conventional "pancake" collapse would have left large pieces of welded together steel intact. Yet, it did not happen. The steel simply "snapped"? Remember that this is the structure that could withstand a very strong wind-forces.

_______________________________________________________________________

As far as I'm concerned, the government chosen to implicate itself by lack of disclosure and transparency, and by fallowing a seemingly pre-determined story that was released prior to any investigation.

1) They absolutely chosen to reject ANY possibility of explosives set in WTC towers. Why? Why would such possibility be outright dismissed when multiple of credible eyewitnesses (firefighters and law enforcement) reported multiple explosions happening? Multiple news agencies reported explosions, yet the word "explosions" does not even appear in 517 pages of 9/11 commission report? How can you have hundreds of reports of explosions prior to collapse, and none even briefly mentioned?

[John317]

Thanks, Paula, for that explanation and the information. It's much appreciated. :-)

[Gordon1]

As you stated fccool, it's a story of common sense. Logical thinking goes a long way. We must bend reality to follow the official report, and ignore some pressing evidence. (As the priest would say "It's a mystery - don't worry yourself about it") Thanks for the photos and commentary. The film contains some of the best 9/11 footage I've seen.

Airplanes leave tons of debris. Each Boeing 757 (Shanksville & Pentagon) weighs over a quarter of a million pounds. Steel, aluminum, titanium. Yet there was only a smoking hollow in Pennsylvannia. The engines alone weigh several tons apiece with fans about six feet in diameter.

None of this surfaced at either site. And bodies?? A neat disappearing trick.

Airplanes leave tons of debris.

[John317]

What do you think happened?

[John317]

Thanks for that information on the background of material in Hughes book.

Is Bill Hughes an SDA pastor or a former pastor?

Also, have you ever seen, or heard of, a video in which Bill Hughes said that Roy Allen Anderson and LeRoy Froom were Catholic priests? About a year ago I saw such a video, and I believe it was Hughes, but I'm not positive it was him.

[Twilight]

Paula,

No one can explain or justify the fall of WTC Building 7 at 5:20 PM on Sept. 11th.

It was kept out of the media, out of public discussion, and out of the Official 9/11 Commission Report.

It's proof of media conspiracy and cover-up. 47 stories disintegrate in 7 seconds. In Manhattan. No press??

Raising controversial topics invites personal attacks, sarcasm, ridicule, and it's one cost of independant thinking. But it shows there are no valid rebuttals. As you've clearly said, SDAs should be at the forefront of public awareness with all the light we've been given & I fully agree. But while 9/11 is a type of litmus test to gauge our compliance with NWO agenda, even this can be an absorbing distraction away from Bible study. It's one of many such issues, but nothing deserves our attention more than the Word. Not all doubters will be convinced and thankfully this is not our burden.

WTC Building 7 Research:

http://www.wtc7.net/

I am sort of on the middle on this one, but I do agree the responses that have come back have been in some instances less than polite.

Accusatory in their spirit.

And totally intolerant of a different point of view.

[fccool]

What do you think happened?

I'd like to know your other theory. You seem to bank on the official story, but if it's not true... what do you think is the most logical conclusion?

[Twilight]

As you stated fccool, it's a story of common sense. Logical thinking goes a long way. We must bend reality to follow the official report, and ignore some pressing evidence. (As the priest would say "It's a mystery - don't worry yourself about it") Thanks for the photos and commentary. The film contains some of the best 9/11 footage I've seen.

Airplanes leave tons of debris. Each Boeing 757 (Shanksville & Pentagon) weighs over a quarter of a million pounds. Steel, aluminum, titanium. Yet there was only a smoking hollow in Pennsylvannia. The engines alone weigh several tons apiece with fans about six feet in diameter.

None of this surfaced at either site. And bodies?? A neat disappearing trick.

Airplanes leave tons of debris.

And though I am on the fence on this one, this is the part that really does not ring true for me..

[Gordon1]

Thanks for that information on the background of material in Hughes book.

Is Bill Hughes an SDA pastor or a former pastor?

Also, have you ever seen, or heard of, a video in which Bill Hughes said that Roy Allen Anderson and LeRoy Froom were Catholic priests? About a year ago I saw such a video, and I believe it was Hughes, but I'm not positive it was him.

Wrote an informed reply which was lost to cyberspace. Sorry & later John.

[Gordon1]

I am sort of on the middle on this one

Hi Twilight,

If you have the time, fccool's video is worth the look.

[Paula]

A general tag on.....

There has been much printed, storied, TV, about the reasons for the Tower structers problems, not designed for such an event and how it was possible for a plane to bring them down.

Well, actually the Twin Towers WERE built to withstand a plane impact...

Here is an aticle from the pulitzer prize winning Seattle Times:

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19930227&slug=1687698

Saturday, February 27, 1993 - Page updated at 12:00 AM

E-mail article Print view

Twin Towers Engineered To Withstand Jet Collision

By Eric Nalder

Engineers had to consider every peril they could imagine when they designed the World Trade Center three decades ago because, at the time, the twin towers were of unprecedented size for structures made of steel and glass.

"We looked at every possible thing we could think of that could happen to the buildings, even to the extent of an airplane hitting the side," said John Skilling, head structural engineer. "However, back in those days people didn't think about terrorists very much."

Skilling, based in Seattle, is among the world's top structural engineers. He is responsible for much of Seattle's downtown skyline and for several of the world's tallest structures, including the Trade Center.

Concerned because of a case where an airplane hit the Empire State Building, Skilling's people did an analysis that showed the towers would withstand the impact of a Boeing 707.

"Our analysis indicated the biggest problem would be the fact that all the fuel (from the airplane) would dump into the building. There would be a horrendous fire. A lot of people would be killed," he said. "The building structure would still be there."

[Dr. Shane]

The towers were designed for a small plane to impact the building. They were not designed for a large jet loaded with fuel. The jet probably knocked a bunch of the fireproofing off the steel when it impacted the building which left the steel susceptible to failure under the heat of a fire.

[Dr. Shane]

Of even more interest is the numbers of people who are the most dogmatic and literal about the Bible are quite often the most into conspiracies of the everyday world.

I don't know if there is a correlation there. I know some people that believe in some wacky conspiracy theories but are not religious at all.

[Paula]

The towers were designed for a small plane to impact the building. They were not designed for a large jet loaded with fuel.

It never ceases to amaze me how people will just state things as fact without ever actually checking to make sure that their assumptions are correct. This is what makes it possible for the government to pull the wool over peoples eyes, and be confident that they will get away with it.

Shane, the person behind the design of the WTC specifically states that the towers were built to withstand a 707... your response was that the reason it could not withstand a 757 (which is what actually crashed into the WTC) was because it was built to handle a "SMALL PLANE", not a large JET LOADED WITH FUEL.

So, lets see what the facts are in regards to a 707 vs 757

757

Wing span 124 ft 10 in (38.05 m)

Overall Length 155 ft 3 in (47.32 m)

Range 3,900nm (4,488 miles)

707 (367-80 Prototype (1954) )

Wing span 130 feet (39.6 m)

Overall length 128 feet (39 m)

Range 3,067 nm (3,530 miles)

707 (Advanced 707-320B)

Wing span 145 feet 9 in (44.42 m)

Overall length 152 feet 11 in (46.6 m)

Range 5,353 nm (6,160 miles)

The 757 is longer than both models of the 707. Width was not available where I got this 707 information.

707 720 (707-020) 707-120B 707-320B

Fuel Capacity 16,060 US gal (60,900 liters) 17,330 US gal (65,590 l) 23,820 US gal (90,160 l)

757 757-200 757-200F 757-300

Max. fuel 11,489 US gal (43,490 L ) 11,276 US gal( 42,680 L ) 11,466 US gal( 43,400 L )

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/tech_ops/read.main/243252/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_707

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_757

As you can see a 707 carries MORE FUEL than a 757, it has a WIDER Wing Span, but it IS Shorter...

Not as different in size as you assumed is it?

So called "conspiracy theorists" simply like to look at ALL the facts, not just the stuff that is spit out in the media and by the government... it is by being open to the facts that we come to different conclusions from most. I think the Bible says something about a Christian needing to be "wise (or Shrewd, depending on your version) as serpents and simple as doves."

[John317]

What do you think happened?

Originally Posted By: fccool

I'd like to know your other theory. You seem to bank on the official story, but if it's not true... what do you think is the most logical conclusion?

I'm not sure but if the official view is not true, then it seems to me the only other reasonable possibility is that the government was somehow involved. But I'm not persuaded of this, yet I am open to all the evidence.

If it was a conspiracy by the government or by some government agency, it seems to me we're talking about thousands of people who would have to be in on it.

Also, what about all the people on those planes who were killed and made the phone calls beforehand? Didn't they retrieve any bodies of the passengers who died in the crash at the Pentagon?

Having lived through the Kennedy assassination and its aftermath, I know how easy it is to get all kinds of conspiracy theories going. Usually they thrive on half-truths, rumor, lies, and things that can't be explained easily or can be explained in different ways. If we think the government has reason to lie, we need to remember that there are many other people who have reason to lie, people who have their own ulterior motives for wanting to keep the conspiracy theories flying.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Hmm. What company provided the fuel? I think that's important. And who fueled the plane? Was the person salaried or paid by the hour? How long did the person work at that job? What did he/she do before landing that job? Does he have children? What are their names? Any pets at home? Is he/she a member of PETA? Are all PETA members provided legal assistance? Who is their attorney? From what University did he/she get a legal degree? Is the University accredited? Who did the accreditation? How many other Universities are accredited to offer an LLD? Are they also offering doctorates in other fields? How many fields, and does this include foreign languages? Is Arabic one of the languages offered? What about Spanish? Do students receive Federal scholarships? Do students receiving Federal scholarships do internships at the Capitol in Washington, DC? Have any of the students met the POTUS and other members of Congress?

There. I've just shown how sound deductive reasoning demonstrates that the US President and Congress had a definite link to the towers being destroyed.