Do you keep ALL of the Commandments?

[Woody]

Any better than the Pharisees?

This experience that Ellen White had in Italy was interesting:

Quote:

Sunday morning dawned clear and beautiful. Ellen White was impressed by the scene she saw when she walked out into the market place. There women with inflamed eyes and coarse, leathery skin were crying out, trying to sell their wares. In the wintertime many of these mountain people lived in stables with their cows and goats, in order to keep warm. The buildings generally had only one small window. {EGWE 142.1}

On Sunday afternoon Ellen White stood up to talk to a small group once more. While she was speaking Malan came in again. This time he sat there looking very agitated. Whenever something was said with which he agreed, he would nod his approval. If he didn't agree, he would shake his head and begin to murmur to those around him. Finally he popped up again and asked Bourdeau, who was interpreting, "Do you keep all the Commandments any better than the Pharisees? Answer me!" Bourdeau ignored him, and Malan presently grabbed his hat and hurried angrily from the room. {EGWE 142.2}

"This was not a very encouraging beginning," Ellen White wrote in her diary that night, "but we will remain and see if the Lord has anything further for me to do."-- Manuscript 29, 1885. {EGWE 142.3}

[Neil D]

Um.......no....I regularly break all of them, one way or another....

[Woody]

Amen

[Dr. Shane]

Well, I can honestly say "yes, I keep the Commandments better than the Pharisees." When I do break a Commandment, I don't make excuses for my behavior. I confess my fault to God and make amends to anyone I may have harmed. Breaking a Commandment results whenever I fail to trust in God. When I trust that God knows what is best for me, I don't break a Commandment.

[Stan]

So, which of the commandments would be ok with you if your neighbour did not keep?

[Woody]

I don't judge my neighbor.

[Dr. Shane]

I don't think Malan asked if Mrs. White judged her neighbor.

[John317]

The Bible calls believers to judge behavior and words. That's not the same as judging people in the way that Christ said we're not to judge. We have to judge whether something is right or wrong all the time, but we can't judge their motives or their hearts.

Take a look at the following verses:

1 John 2:3-4

And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. [4] Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,

1 John 5:3

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.

1 John 3:4-10

Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. [5] You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. [6] No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. [7] Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. [8] Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. [9] No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. [10] By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

Romans 8:3-4

For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, [4] in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

1 Cor. 7:19

For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God [is what counts].

Rev. 12:17

Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.

Rev. 22:14

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

John 15:10-14

If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. [11] These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.

[12] "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. [13] Greater love has no one than this, that someone lays down his life for his friends. [14] You are my friends if you do what I command you.

[olger]

Very good, John.

Many people fail to understand the difference between discernment and condemnation.

[phkrause]

I agree John. I've mentioned on a number of occasions, that aren't we called to be jurors and have to judge situations or judge certain things as we hear evidence?

[Stan]

I don't judge my neighbor.

Was not asking you to, was asking what commandments they, your children (if you have them) your wife etc that would be ok with them breaking.

[Stan]

no need to answer....

[teresaq]

im not sure about malans issues in that account...

but the pharisees didnt have any love in their heart...Jesus had nothing but love, hence never broke any commandment.

in which case, i certainly cant say i have the love that Jesus had, so the only conclusion i can come to is that i do not keep the commandments as God intended...hopefully im not as bad as the pharisees, but quite possibly am.

[phkrause]

im not sure about malans issues in that account...

but the pharisees didnt have any love in their heart...Jesus had nothing but love, hence never broke any commandment.

in which case, i certainly cant say i have the love that Jesus had, so the only conclusion i can come to is that i do not keep the commandments as God intended...hopefully im not as bad as the pharisees, but quite possibly am.

I do agree with most of your post. I do have a problem with "the pharisees didn't have any love in their heart". That's like saying Politians, Women, Men, Christians, Catholics, etc. don't have love in there hearts. There are people of any group that have love and those that don't. Just my 2 cents worth of opinion.

[teresaq]

i use it in the "biblical" sense, where no distinction was made. i dont think any of us have love for others like Christ did, which was my point, which i may not have gotten across as i wished...

[Gerr]

Um.......no....I regularly break all of them, one way or another....

Intentionally?

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Neil D

Um.......no....I regularly break all of them, one way or another....

Intentionally?

[teresaq]

i dont think id thought of it that way....

[Gerr]

Intentionally?

One way or another ... it IS intentional.

I was asking Neil. I already know your position. You have made it quite clear in the past that you will intentionally sin until Jesus comes.

[Woody]

i dont think id thought of it that way....

Well teresa ... it's not a very popular belief on this forum. So, you might want to stay clear of it. But, our prophet did warn of those who want to excuse sin with the idea that it's not intentional. But, I just don't buy that we can sin because it's not intentional.

We ALL need the blood of Jesus and His life to be placed before God instead of our sinful life. Those who think their life is good enough or are trying to be good enough ... will not prevail. My life is sinful and will remain that way. So, I need the Robe of HIS Righteousness to cover my sinful life.

Sin is serious. With serious consequences. We need to take it seriously. And not just excuse it away.

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: Neil D

Um.......no....I regularly break all of them, one way or another....

Intentionally?

I think I answered this already, Gerry....

"one way or another"......It depends upon which fear that I am trying to avoid from becoming a reality.....

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

i dont think id thought of it that way....

Well teresa ... it's not a very popular belief on this forum. So, you might want to stay clear of it. But, our prophet did warn of those who want to excuse sin with the idea that it's not intentional. But, I just don't buy it.

We ALL need the blood of Jesus and His life to be placed before God instead of our sinful life. Those who think their life is good enough or are trying to be good enough ... will not prevail. My life is sinful and will remain that way. So, I need the Robe of HIS Righteousness to cover my sinful life.

Sin is serious. With serious consequences. We need to take it seriously. And not just excuse it away.

may i suggest, woody, that you stay in this "mode"? what you wrote here is comprehensible-at least i understood what you are trying to say...

when i buy a pastry thinking, i dont care what it does to me, then i am intentionally and willfully sinning.

other times i think, it can be a mix...like a recent comment made about "wallowing with the pigs" would be justifying a willful, intentional sin, without being fully conscious that it is so.

it all boils down to knowing enough about sin, understanding the principles of the law and loving God and our fellowman, for one to fully realize that, yes, far too often i do willfully and intentionally sin.

if those principles are only vaguely understood then a person will not see their actions as "sin", intentional or otherwise.

[Woody]

Quote:

other times i think, it can be a mix...like a recent comment made about "wallowing with the pigs" would be justifying a willful, intentional sin, without being fully conscious that it is so.

Yes, the "wallowing with the pigs" was sad. But I guess that's what was taught to him. And he swallowed it

Quote:

it all boils down to knowing enough about sin, understanding the principles of the law and loving God and our fellowman, for one to fully realize that, yes, far too often i do willfully and intentionally sin.

Yes. I too willfully and intentionally sin. But I recognize that I do it. I admit that I do it. And I confess that I do it to GOD. And Praise God ... HE forgives.

The key here is to recognize it rather than to rationalize it because it was supposedly not "intentional".

Quote:

may i suggest, woody, that you stay in this "mode"? what you wrote here is comprehensible-

Thanks teresa. So far so good. Even in the midst of the storm ... I am holding on so far. Thanks for the encouragement.

[John317]

One way or another ... it IS intentional.

I don't agree with you on this because both the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy clearly distinguish between willful, intentional sin and sins that are not willfull and intentional. Look, for instance, at the book of Leviticus 5: 15. It says plainly that there are unintentional sins.

Some sins are out of ignorance and because the temptation came at a time of spiritual weakness.

But that is different from people deliberately seeking out sin and committing it on a regular basis because of planning it.

Ellen White never indicates that all sin is intentional. Neither does Scripture.

Just as their are crimes in society that are unintentional and others that are delibeerate, so with sin.

Speaking of the difference between deliberate and unintentional sin is not excusing sin. Your argument is irrational and illogical. Even unintentional sins and sins of ignorance must be confessed and repented of when we recognize what we've done.

The claim that all sins are intentional and deliberate is made for the purpose of excusing themselves because they view everyone as doing the same thing as they are, which is to practice deliberate sin. In their thinking everyone is in the same boat, and of course misery loves company, as they say.

Those who say all sin is intentional and that we can't stop sinning or can't obey God's commandments are contradicting the plainest statements of Scripture and the Spirit of prophecy. It's the message that the devil wants people to accept because if they do, they won't practice and teach the three Angels messages and they won't overcome the sins in their lives. The devil would like me and everyone else to believe that we either don't need to overcome sin or that we can't or that it doesn't matter if we do.

[Haldog]

Keep the 613 commandments (law) in the Torah better? No! Even starting a fire or preparing food was forbidden by the law.

Jesus Commandment that we are to love one another even as He loved us? Yes.

Not that it matters one iota regarding my salvation. I am saved by His grace, not of my own works of the flesh. So no man may boast that they are saved of their own doing but only by the Grace afforded to us through Jesus Christ.

Through one man sin entered the world and by one Man the price for sin was paid.