Three ways to kill a forum's activities

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Thesis: Seeing every issue through the liberal vs conservative lens is a maladaptive intellectual strategy since it forces into blindness complexity essential to understanding the issues.

Does that have something to do with the transmission and distributor cap?

[Bravus]

The simpler but more verbose version, then.

Most of the issues we discuss are complex - everything from abortion to origins to issues of charity and community, and certainly matters like the trinity and the nature of Christ.

But the 'liberals think this, conservatives think this' scheme is not complex, it's simple. No, it's simplistic: that means *too* simple. So simple that using it for thinking means we have to cut off parts of the complexity of the issues in order to fit them in that framework.

Google the story of Procrustes and his bed for a lovely ancient metaphor for this.

I know my own views are frequently massively misunderstood around here, because people assume I'm an example of the simple category 'liberal' rather than actually reading what I post. Like everyone else, my set of ideas, beliefs and commitments is too big and too awkwardly shaped to fit in the Procrustean bed of 'liberal'.

Sadly, I've noticed the increasing dominance of the use of this particular bad tool around here in the past year or so. I personally believe it is strongly correlated with the increase in conflict, because it also has the effect of moving every conversation from an exploration conducted together by fellow complex human beings to a simple war between liberals and conservatives. Which is just boring to me.

[abelisle]

Seems that "Come, let us reason together" has turned into "Let me show you why you are wrong."

I'm curious to know if some of the more strident conservatives on this forum have any "liberal" friends and/or do they speak with the same tone and rhetoric in person as they do when they write their opinions?

Why do ideas threaten people like they seem to do? And where are the voices of the hundreds of other lurkers who are "watching" this forum? How can we get them to be more involved in the conversation? Is it because they're scared of being verbally attacked rather than spoken to nicely as Christians should?

"Let there be light" on this situation

Alex

[Twilight]

Ooooooh, so you are the Christ,and when someone disagrees with you, you are being sacrificed to a cause, eh?

You are a maryter to 'christian principals' that shows your love of the Lord.....

Wow! Hip boots! I need hip boots to wade thru this...er, ..um...sewer flotsam....

Is this "liberal love" Neil? :-)

Your post here displays the point I am making.

The moment someone disagrees with you, you have gone on the attack, how is that different to conservative behaviour that you speak out against?

If you as a "liberal" want to condemn "conservatives", why do you behave exactly the same way?

Rom 2:22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?

[Twilight]

The simpler but more verbose version, then.

Most of the issues we discuss are complex - everything from abortion to origins to issues of charity and community, and certainly matters like the trinity and the nature of Christ.

But the 'liberals think this, conservatives think this' scheme is not complex, it's simple. No, it's simplistic: that means *too* simple. So simple that using it for thinking means we have to cut off parts of the complexity of the issues in order to fit them in that framework.

Google the story of Procrustes and his bed for a lovely ancient metaphor for this.

I know my own views are frequently massively misunderstood around here, because people assume I'm an example of the simple category 'liberal' rather than actually reading what I post. Like everyone else, my set of ideas, beliefs and commitments is too big and too awkwardly shaped to fit in the Procrustean bed of 'liberal'.

Sadly, I've noticed the increasing dominance of the use of this particular bad tool around here in the past year or so. I personally believe it is strongly correlated with the increase in conflict, because it also has the effect of moving every conversation from an exploration conducted together by fellow complex human beings to a simple war between liberals and conservatives. Which is just boring to me.

Can I just add something to the pot here Bravus.

When a group of individuals come together and start to agree around "liberal" tenets, then although their views may differ in many respects, they have in effect joined together as the tribe of "liberals".

It is this social phenomena, of choosing sides that is being discussed.

Not whether each "liberal" has exactly the same doctrinal understanding on all points.

Once a group perceives a common goal or objective, then they band together.

Naming that group on the issues it is presenting, or agreeing on is not wrong.

And as there is clearly a group here that present a liberal agenda, then it is also not wrong to identify them as such.

So far, Neil has called himself a liberal, I wonder if the others that argue the liberal position, would be so open?

Either way, whenever a "liberal" or "conservative" issue comes up, the usual people jump on the bandwagon on boths sides.

And it has always been that way, in every forum I have ever experienced.

[Twilight]

Seems that "Come, let us reason together" has turned into "Let me show you why you are wrong."

I'm curious to know if some of the more strident conservatives on this forum have any "liberal" friends and/or do they speak with the same tone and rhetoric in person as they do when they write their opinions?

Why do ideas threaten people like they seem to do? And where are the voices of the hundreds of other lurkers who are "watching" this forum? How can we get them to be more involved in the conversation? Is it because they're scared of being verbally attacked rather than spoken to nicely as Christians should?

"Let there be light" on this situation

Alex

That is the problem though Alex.

We are all subject to speaking to people incorrectly, through misunderstandings and sometimes just downright rudeness.

That is not reserved for "liberals" or "conservatives".

All are guilty of it.

But the thing I find most prevalent on this forum is "look at those nasty conservatives and how they ruin the forum", coming from the "liberals".

And the other charge seems to be: "the conservatives stop people coming here".

Which is again unfounded in my view.

That is the problem I see developing.

Neither liberals or conservatives should be given any ascendancy, but all should be treated equally.

I am neither a liberal or conservative.

Yet I find most of the aggression coming from the "liberal" camp if I am honest.

[Twilight]

Do as I say, not as I do...

[Doug]

It ish't called a BBS it's a forum. BBS went the way of dialup and AOL. I think topics which are controversial should be heavily moderated.

[phkrause]

It ish't called a BBS it's a forum. BBS went the way of dialup and AOL. I think topics which are controversial should be heavily moderated.

Good point Doug, I saw that but didn't think it was any big deal.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I have a question: What's a "black helicopter" person? (I always liked "Airwolf" - a friend of mine bought that helicopter. Unfortunately it crashed and killed all on board a few years ago.)

**

I find myself to be somewhat of an enigma on the forum. In some areas, I could be labeled as "conservative"; in other areas, I'm definitely liberal. I don't like "discussions" where someone is always trying to sway everyone to their POV.

I've found the best way to stop a thread is for me to post.

[Bravus]

Disproving Pam's last sentence!

Seems most above have completely missed my point and descended back into 'libs are worse/cons are worse' nonsense.

Boring.

[phkrause]

I find myself to be somewhat of an enigma on the forum. In some areas, I could be labeled as "conservative"; in other areas, I'm definitely liberal.

Your not the only enigma rudywoofs. I can guaranty that every single person on this forum are liberal and conservative on any given issue. Those that say they are not are just lying to themselves. I know many things I'm conservative about, and many things liberal about, that includes politics. There are things I like about both parties and what they stand for and some things I dislike about either party.

[phkrause]

I don't like "discussions" where someone is always trying to sway everyone to their POV.

I definitely agree with this statement, 100%

Way to much of that goes on.

[phkrause]

I've found the best way to stop a thread is for me to post.

I agree with Bravus' post about this statement rudywoofs.

Because as you can see its still going on. :):):)

[Gail]

I've found the best way to stop a thread is for me to post.

We have noticed that it happens here and there and not only to you! I have no idea why that is.

[LynnDel]

I've noticed my comments can tend to be a thread-killer, too. Sometimes I plan it that way...

Perhaps it is that, when words of wisdom are spoken, there is nothing left to be said.

LD

[phkrause]

I've noticed my comments can tend to be a thread-killer, too. Sometimes I plan it that way...

Perhaps it is that, when words of wisdom are spoken, there is nothing left to be said.

LD

Good one

[Gail]

:smilewink:

[Stan]

If I were to start a new thread on growing forums it would include several things

INCLUDING...

Everyone should start a new thread at least once a week

[doug yowell]

If I were to start a new thread on growing forums it would include several things

INCLUDING...

Everyone should start a new thread at least once a week

What were the three ways to kill a forum's activities,again? I forgot.

[Tammy]

1 - Talk about the "nature" of Christ

2 - talk about abortion

3 - talk about gays

These seem to be the subjects that upset people the most... OH, add one more, Stan...

4 - talk about how the Church is in Apostasy...

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

-deleted-

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: Neil D

Ooooooh, so you are the Christ,and when someone disagrees with you, you are being sacrificed to a cause, eh?

You are a maryter to 'christian principals' that shows your love of the Lord.....

Wow! Hip boots! I need hip boots to wade thru this...er, ..um...sewer flotsam....

Is this "liberal love" Neil? :-)

Your post here displays the point I am making.

The moment someone disagrees with you, you have gone on the attack, how is that different to conservative behaviour that you speak out against?

If you as a "liberal" want to condemn "conservatives", why do you behave exactly the same way?

Rom 2:22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?

Been over this already, Twi.

I understand that......

...however, when I mirror thier verbage with different wording, they can not see it. If concepts are worded differently, expressing the same thought, and they dissagree, then they just don't understand....

More often, what they want is that I must agree with what they say in thier wording for them to conceed that we agree... That is not understanding...that's submiting...And I am just enough of an anti-authoritarian to be a bit contrary to that sort of thing....

Not interested in sparing with you...'cause you just don't get it....If I agree with you, I have to use the same verbage as you to get my point across...that's not a discussion...Even though I use different words, or bring out a reflective metaphor, you want me to use your wording....tain't a discussion....it a competition and you want submission on my part....Christ said that among His followers, He didn't want one of them "lording it over the others"....my assessment is that this place is a place of people who are trying to lord it over those who are interested in discussion..not submission....

[Twilight]

I do not desire or require submission from you Neil.

That should only be given to Christ.

[doug yowell]

[Not interested in sparing with you...'cause you just don't get it....If I agree with you, I have to use the same verbage as you to get my point across...that's not a discussion...Even though I use different words, or bring out a reflective metaphor, you want me to use your wording....tain't a discussion....it a competition and you want submission on my part....Christ said that among His followers, He didn't want one of them "lording it over the others"....my assessment is that this place is a place of people who are trying to lord it over those who are interested in discussion..not submission....

Sounds like you're more interested in being unique than being understood,Neil. Am I correct?