Massive 8.9 quake hits Japan, then Tsunami

[ClubV12]

Sonny, it remains my opinion that this whole epic event is indeed "by the hand of God". I won't put a fine point on how exactly it was accomplished, by Him, or why, any further than that.

HCH, I "lifted" the quake, fire, flood quote from an earlier post by John317. That was post #430539, a few pages back from the page I'm on, which is page 23 for me. That post also offers some interesting insights from the Great Controversy on other disaster causes. It's a well researched post with some good EGW quotes, thank you, John317 for that bit of work.

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: Woody

God is not punishing the Japanese. We go though this after each and every 'act of God'.

I think we should remember that this subject was not brought up here by people saying God was punishing the Japanese. The person that brought it up was saying God wasn't punishing the Japanese.

I think only a very small minority of Adventists would see this as God punishing anyone. However a large majority would see this as a sign of the end times. Two different issues there.

Excellent point Shane, I agree 100%

[ClubV12]

I guess he wasn't "punishing" San Fran in 1906 either?

Perhaps it depends on your own personal definition of punishment, sometimes people call it "rehabilitation therapy". :)

[Woody]

It appears that you would make Satan impotent.

[ClubV12]

Satan IS impotent! He has no power except that granted him by God. He can do only that which is allowed.

Satan never touched Sodom, by the way, that was distinctly the work of Gods appointed angels. He took an active, not a passive roll, on that city. In fact Jesus PERSONALLY visited the city to determine for Himself whether the reports of iniquity would be confirmed. Of course He already knew, but He did so in a manner that man could understand, for our benefit.

And Sodom was and remains a testimony to all mankind for as long as the earth shall exist.

It matters not how the destruction is delivered, or by whom directly. All is done under the authority of God.

[Woody]

The Earth has been given to Satan.

This is HIS domain.

God's hands are tied to certain rules. Rules of course that HE has created to accomplish what is best to come out the victor in the Great Controversy between Christ and Satan.

[ClubV12]

Rules like he couldn't touch Job without God's permission. Those kind of rules, very simple.

[Woody]

Rules like he couldn't touch Job without God's permission. Those kind of rules, very simple.

Oh. So R U saying that Satan is not allowed to tempt people?

That's a new one on me. But hey ... go for it. Carry on ...

[Sonny]

He took an active, not a passive roll, on that city.

As to Sodom and Gomorrah, let's look at bit closer.

Read Hosea 11:8

How can I give you up Ephraim? How can I hand you over, Israel? How can I make you like Admah? How can I set you like Zeboiim? My heart churns within Me. My sympathy is stirred.

Deuteronomy 29:23 and Genesis 14:2,8 give the names of all four cities destroyed when God seemingly poured fire upon the Cities of the Plain: Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboiim. According to Hosea, then, these last two cities, and by implication, Sodom and Gomorrah with them, were handed over and given up to destruction.

The implication is that God doesn't destroy, rather He gave them up - He removes Himself - He abandons those who reject Him. Why? Agape can't force or coerce. Hence, being righteous, He must move on.

What happens when God removes Himself?

I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall come upon them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us because our God is not among us? [Deuteronomy 31:17]

[LifeHiscost]

It appears that you would make Satan impotent.

While satan wreaks a lot of chaos in this his domain, when God chooses to intervene for the sake of those who need it, satan is impotent.

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: LifeHiscost

"For no man ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and carefully protects and cherishes it, as Christ does the church" Ephesians 5:29 AMP

Matt 24:5 For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ, ' and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains. 9 "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

John 15:18 "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember the words I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also.

And when we understand both of these revelations to be true, then we will understand God for Who He is, our protector, our Savior, our redeemer, needing what He does not prevent.

God blesses!

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Woody

It appears that you would make Satan impotent.

While satan wreaks a lot of chaos in this his domain, when God chooses to intervene for the sake of those who need it, satan is impotent.

God blesses!

Neither Satan nor God is impotent. But God has more rules that restrict Him than Satan. just my humble opinion. :)

[LifeHiscost]

It matters not how the destruction is delivered, or by whom directly. All is done under the authority of God.

[Woody]

Yes. God has indeed given Satan domain of this earth so God is ultimately responsible for all that goes on in this Great Controversy.

I would not try to limit God as to what His powers are. They may be restricted. But they are His.

[LifeHiscost]

Yes. God has indeed given Satan domain of this earth so God is ultimately responsible for all that goes on in this Great Controversy.

I would not try to limit God as to what His powers are. They may be restricted. But they are His.

[John317]

I used to chant Buddhist prayers, and I'm sure this is what most Japanese who pray about this problem will be doing. Many Buddhist really believe in the power of prayer, even believing that they gain good fortune through their prayers. At the Buddhist meetings I attended in San Francisco, it was common for people to stand up and give their testimonies about how their prayers had helped them. I was astonished at how materialistic the testimonies usually were. They concerned mostly the material benefits they gained through their prayers. There's no sense of a personal God.

[aldona]

Quote:

At the Buddhist meetings I attended in San Francisco, it was common for people to stand up and give their testimonies about how their prayers had helped them. I was astonished at how materialistic the testimonies usually were. They concerned mostly the material benefits they gained through their prayers.

No different to what I see/hear coming from many of the televangelists on Christian satellite TV...

AJ

[Dr. Shane]

No different to what I see/hear coming from many of the televangelists on Christian satellite TV...

AJ

That is called the prosperity gospel. I have seen more than one Adventist pastor on TV preaching against it. It is one of the Adventist criticisms of the modern evangelical movement. However I know of some Adventist members that get caught up in it. I have an Adventist friend on my Facebook that is constantly posting stuff that let's everyone know about all the big, boy toys he has and fancy places he and his wife go. That isn't what being a Christian is about. Being a Christian is about helping other people.

[Sonny]

No different to what I see/hear coming from many of the televangelists on Christian satellite TV...

AJ

Amen!

I found this...it's interesting:

click here

[ClubV12]

Woody you make an excellent point about God being restricted with more rules than the evil doer is. That is clearly laid out in the Great Controversy.

The evil one could use all kinds of deceit, lies, sophistry, doubt, etc. whereas God could/would not. It was imperative that the course of sin be allowed to play out so that all could see the end results. So that it was clear all had free choice in the matter.

As to temptation we have the assurance none will be tested beyond our means to resist. It's also interesting to note that in the garden evil was restricted to a single location, a single tree.

Another important rule is that as we push God away or deny His power in our lives, we allow the evil doer more access in our lives.

As to Sodom, Partriarchs and Prophets make it clear that the angels that visited both Abraham and Lot in his house were the destroying angels. Destruction was allowed to continue AFTER Jesus personally reviewed the reason's and authorized it. But again, how EXACTLY the destruction was carried out is a moot point.

Prosperity gospel, I didn't know thats what it is called, very fitting description.

[Sonny]

As to Sodom, Partriarchs and Prophets make it clear that the angels that visited both Abraham and Lot in his house were the destroying angels.

We need to go with what the Bible presents ultimately....Ellen White didn't die knowing all truth. Truth is progressive.

[ClubV12]

Lately I've been wondering what parts of Ellen Whites writings would be considered for inclusion in the cannon, the bible, should time continue. That is how highly I rank her writings!

That thought, inclusion of Ellen White within the cannon, was promted when I read about Martin Luther having doubts about including the book of Revelation in the cannon! In his early ministry he was not sure it should be included. Indeed, there was much discussion over time, by many groups of people, as to what should be included and what should not. Of course God was leading in all this, but allowing the participation of man.

Some of Ellen Whites writings need to be considered for the context of her time, like buying bicycles for instance (very expensive in her day). But it is a perilous path to pick and choose what counsel is applicable today and what counsel can be safely discarded. Searching, comparing, understanding the context, the time frame and the peoples of her time are just as important for her writings as they are for the bible writings. In either case, the counsel is needed and applicable to our time.

Eating the flesh of strangled animals was a point of great contention in Pauls times, not so much today. But the message is still valid, don't eat the meat of strangled animals! Does that apply to YOU, TODAY? That depends on what culture you find yourself in, it might! The bicycle counsel of Ellen White is still applicable today, by the way. You could spend $10,000 or more, for a bicycle. Unless you have a very good reason, her counsel is "don't do it".

[Sonny]

Lately I've been wondering what parts of Ellen Whites writings would be considered for inclusion in the cannon, the bible, should time continue. That is how highly I rank her writings!

Then you should read all her writings:

Do not think that, because we have a glimmer of the light of God, that we have it all.--Ms. 3, 1889, pp. 1-3. (Morning Talk at Ottawa, Kansas, May 14, 1889.)

The question has been asked me, "Do you think that the Lord has any more light for us as a people?" I answer that He has light that is new to us, and yet it is precious old light that is to shine forth from the Word of truth [the Bible]. We have only the glimmerings of the rays of the light that is yet to come to us. [1SM 401]

We have many lessons to learn, and many, many to unlearn. God and heaven alone are infallible. Those who think that they will never have to give up a cherished view, never have occasion to change an opinion, will be disappointed. [CW 37]

“A spirit of pharisaism has been coming in upon the people who claim to believe the truth for these last days. They are self-satisfied. They have said, ‘We have the truth. There is no more light for the people of God.’ But we are not safe when we take a position that we will not accept anything else than that upon which we have settled as truth. We should take the Bible, and investigate it closely for ourselves. We should dig in the mine of God's word for truth. ‘Light is sown for the righteous, and gladness for the upright in heart.’ Some have asked me if I thought there was any more light for the people of God. Our minds have become so narrow that we do not seem to understand that the Lord has a mighty work to do for us. Increasing light is to shine upon us; for ‘the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.’ --Review and Herald, June 18, 1889. CW 34, 35

[Sonny]

Increasing light is to shine upon us; for ‘the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.’ --Review and Herald, June 18, 1889.

Did you get that? The church, even EGW during her time, progressed in understanding - Scriptural understanding, that is.

Take, for example, her understanding of God's love in 1860:

“The Lord loves those little children who try to do right, and he has promised that they shall be in his kingdom. But wicked children God does not love. He will not take them to the beautiful City, for he only admits the good, obedient, and patient children there…. When you feel tempted to speak impatient and fretful, remember the Lord sees you, and will not love you if you do wrong. “ [AY 63, 1860]

Years later, specifically in 1892 (some 32 years later) she progressed in her understanding:

“Do not teach your children that God does not love them when they do wrong (that's a complete reversal)….Do not terrify your children by telling them of the wrath of God, but rather seek to impress them with his unspeakable love and goodness….” [bible Echo and Signs of the Times, 02-01-1892]

Now, personally I think you need to catch up with how Ellen viewed things in 1892. We are not to use scare tactics to win unbelievers over to God (as you currently do). No, we are to "impress them with his unspeakable love and goodness" of God.

[ClubV12]

As I currently do? I had to chuckle at that.

You see in the message what you want to see, the truth remains. I see the love in the message, "get out of the cities". It is a solemn message, not easy to hear for those currently enjoying their city life and fearful to move away. Where will I work, what will I do, gas is so expensive how will I be able to reach th city when I need to?

First step is to ask, what does this counsel have for me? WHAT is the city? A smaller town might be a good first step, within reasonable distance from the big city to accomadate your practical needs. And yet, far enough that have a place of refuge. Perhaps the suburbs is a good first step for some, get out of the inner city!

"We should take the Bible, and investigate it closely for ourselves."

As we should take Ellen Whites counsel, which is for our day. Don't wait for "new light", apply that light that has been given. Ask the Holy Spirit, which is the only way, to guide you in your understanding.

The message remains clear and plain. Get out of the cities. It will not be easy, in time it will be impossible (that is the counsel). It will become, slowly and over time, increasingly difficult to make that move. God will open a way to those who choose to follow His counsel, though the path may be difficult and the cost at great sacrafice. Your life, and your familys life is at stake.

Lot hesitated, and as a result, his wife had misgivings to the point where she turned to look back. It was LOT'S hesitation that resulted in her death. Set your hand to the plow and don't look back, let the dead bury their dead.