Massive 8.9 quake hits Japan, then Tsunami

[Woody]

Quote:

Since, i am an enemy of this world

I've noticed that TS. And it does make me sad. For the God I worship ... LOVES and DIED for this world. He loves each one in the world including you. (even if you don't love yourself)

[Guest truthseeker007]

i am so tired of seeing people pick and choose bible verses. Yes, God loved the world that he died for it. But Jesus also warned us that friendship with this world means enmity against God. Jesus also told us that those who lose their lifes because of him, will find it (in the next life). Jesus also told us that the world loves his own. Since i choosse to follow Christ, i must likewise suffer and perish. When you go through such experiences, you realise that the world is filled with hate, betrayal hypocrisy etc. So i don t love this world. There are no innocent people, not me, not you, not the pope, nobody! So we don t even deserve to live, unless we believe the satanic lies that there is no sin, and we should all be equal to God.

Woody let me ask you something. In the old testament, God gave orders to wipe out whole peoples, and explicitly mentioned not to save even children, babies and woman. Do you hate God now?Do you now think God is unjust? Or do you believe God when he says his ways are wayyyyyy higher than ours?I believe sometimes an act which SEEMS unrighteous is necessary to prevent bigger evil events from happening. Now if you have so much compassion for this world, that s up to you. I hate this world, since it has hated me for no reason, all my intentions were good, just like Christ his intentions! Now do i feel sorry for individuals in the Japanese disaster?honoustly only for those who have the fruits of the holy spirit in their hearts. I would give my life for such persons. However, those people are very rare these days.

Now you can continue bashing me all you want, i don t care. I have nothing to uphold. I am just as miserable as you are, trying to live up to the biblical standards as good as i can. I am far from perfect, and i will never be perfect. But these are my view points, and i won t change them from nobody, untill somebody enlightens me, that my view points are wrong, based on solid biblical understanding. What you are doing, is just pick a verse and choose which seems most comfortable at the moment. Then ask yourself, are you still defending the truth?or are you just pretending to defend the truth and defending your own feelings/rationalisations, which would be utterly foolish, since Gods ways are waaaaay higher than ours!

[Woody]

No problem here TS. We just have different views. Which is cool. All do.

I love each person in the world. As Jesus does and did. He and I even love you.

God bless U.

[LifeHiscost]

I have the impression that a lot of Westerners are blind to the hard realities of this world. I prefer to tell the truth at all times, especially when it is uncomfortable.

I happen to be repulsed, as you are truthseeker, by the activity of major slaughter of God's creation. However I would like to indicate that when a people do not have the transforming Spirit of Christ in their daily experience, it is a small matter to them to carry on such activity, even if their only motive is to reap financial benefits.

However I'm interested in how you feel a nation who practices

infanticide should be treated in God's system of judgment, and where you think that might place the U.S.?

"And the Lord said, “I will wipe this human race I have created from the face of the earth. Yes, and I will destroy every living thing—all the people, the large animals, the small animals that scurry along the ground, and even the birds of the sky. I am sorry I ever made them.”"

Genesis 6:7 NLT

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: LifeHiscost

How one treats their enemies reveals whether the Christian influence is better than non-Christian.

God blesses!

I like that statement. Certainly a true one.

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: truthseeker007

Again the nation as a whole become satanic, and the nuclear bombs were necessary to change the minds of the Japanese and to participate in a new way of living.

The entire nation was satanic? Even the children? If someone decided that your entire country was "satanic" would you be okay with a nuclear attack?

We are born from the womb with fallen natures. Our Father in Heaven, being able to see into the future, knows which children

are going to develop into "cookie cutter" examples of their sinful predecessors. I find no fault in Him who protects His loyal children against those who will copy the one known as a murderer from the beginning.

"For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies."John 8:44 NLT

I am not in any way saying this applies to anyone on this forum, only that we need to know God is not only merciful, but He is also just to protect those who choose to be His.

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Since, i am an enemy of this world

I've noticed that TS. And it does make me sad. For the God I worship ... LOVES and DIED for this world. He loves each one in the world including you. (even if you don't love yourself)

" Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever."

1 John 2:15-17 NKJV

God blesses!

[Dr. Shane]

If someone decided that your entire country was "satanic" would you be okay with a nuclear attack?

Somebody has decided my whole country has become satanic. They flew planes into buildings to punish us and continue to plan future attacks. No, that is not OK with me but some people see it as America's chickens coming home to roust.

[all]

God doesn't kills one being heathen,saved or not, we are all sinners too. God loves all and is patient till the set time (read Revelation in bible, if you want to know the set time.), and my prayer goes to Japanese. Throughout the Bible, though, there are many examples that God punished evil person or evil acts of the nations not only on the earth, but after life too. Many believe the recent disaster is from god's punishment for Japanese shedding too much innocent Asian blood during ww2.

Historically, Japanese invaded, killed more than 20 millions of innocent Asians, forcefully colonized during WWII, from South Asia to northern Asia including China and Korea.

Though the Westerners and Americans know that Hitler killed 6 million Jews and 4 millions Europeans during WWII, and condemn America's Atomic bombing on Hiroshima as inhumane act, most of the people don't know how the Japanese invasion all over the Asia finally got stopped.

Most people don't know the fact that the atomic bombing could only stopped the Japanese invasions and brutal colonization that was already going on in Asia more than 40 years (from 1905-1945) without any international intervention. To stop this ongoing Japanese crime in Asia, America intervened and warned Japanese emperor, one week before atomic bombing, to stop all invasion, and gave up the forced colonization. Japanese refused, so America had to use the atomic bomb to stop their brutal invasions all over Asia. Finally after atomic bombing, more than 12 nations in Asia found their freedom back again.

Also Animal Channels broadcasted series of the ' "Whale War" about Japanese wales ships' unlawful fishing acts of whale around Arctic, where internationally whale protected zone. These Japanese ships were disguised as "research ship" but in fact there were commercial ships brutally killing countless whales days and nights. When international fishing regulation ships ( role as police)approached to Japanese ships to stop the violation, instead of keeping the laws, they started to shoot against these humanitarian regulatory ships which don't have any guns or weapon equipments. Japanese' out-law attitude like this frustrate me deeply as one of the global citizen. Somehow Japanese seem they can kill, invade, and attack other nations, or animals whenever or wherever they feel like.

[John317]

Hi, All. Welcome to the Adventist Forum. Hope you enjoy visiting here and get to know the members, make friends, and have a good time.

I certainly agree that God loves everyone, but as you mention, God also punishes nations and individuals. But He also blesses many people.

I agree with you about the necessity of using the Atomic bombs on the Japanese at the end of WWII. If that hadn't happened, the war would have dragged on longer and resulted in far more deaths than the number who died at Nagasaki and Hiroshima. It was a tragic ending of a terribly tragic, brutal war, which was started by the Axis. As you mention, too, they were given an opportunity to surrender, but they refused until the second Atomic bomb was used on Nagasaki. The government and the military of Japan bear bear the responsibility.

I doubt the recent earthquakes have anything to do with Japan's past. I do think, though, that nations and individuals need to be aware of what the Bible teaches conerning God's punishment of sin and of nations and peoples. These kinds of catastrophes should be something of a wake-call to make people think seriously about the meaning of life and death. We also need to use this opportunity to help the Japanese get to know Jesus and the Bible.

[Guest truthseeker007]

pffff, things go really bad right now. Today i was without electricity for one hour. It is nothing compared to the problems they are experiencing in Japan. I hope there won t be a nuclear disaster. Let s pray for God his mercy, and that these experiences will shift Japanese culture towards a more friendly environmental attitude.

I think, if Japan was a Christian nation, this disaster wouldn t have happened. It s something we can argue about endlessly. But it is obvious in the world, everywhere where christian principles are influencing society, countries are peacefull, prosperous and happy. Think about the troubles in the islamic nations, the poor people in Hindu India, the disaster in voodoo Haiti etc. etc.

[Bravus]

I think, if Japan was a Christian nation, this disaster wouldn t have happened. It s something we can argue about endlessly. But it is obvious in the world, everywhere where christian principles are influencing society, countries are peacefull, prosperous and happy. Think about the troubles in the islamic nations, the poor people in Hindu India, the disaster in voodoo Haiti etc. etc.

Heard of Hurricane Katrina? The earthquake and fire in San Francisco in 1906? And the one in 1989?

Your comment is not only offensive, it's plain wrong on fact.

However natural disasters get distributed, it's not on the basis of religious affiliation.

[Guest truthseeker007]

Okay Bravus, so you believe that God has nothing to do with natural disasters? One thing we know for sure is that he is able to prevent disasters and he is able to permit them. Then what role do you think God has concerning natural disasters? Do you think it is possible that some disasters are permitted for some higher cause? Do you believe the bible?Do you believe it when God says his ways are higher than ours and we cannot understand Gods ways?Then how can you say for sure that God has nothing to do with natural disasters? Or do you think you know all of God s ways?

[ClubV12]

I think Truthseeker has a valid point. A couple of things come time mind along those lines. We know that in old testament times certain groups of people were obliterated because their cup of iniquity was full. Sodom comes to mind, but there are also many other examples. Thats #1.

#2 is that at some point a people or group pass divine tolerance and in such a case demand divine action, short of total destruction. A "warning" if you would. The tower of Babel comes to mind, vs the flood. A warning vs total destruction.

In between we have conditional mercy, like Ninevah, a group that repented and was spared.

We cannot know where the line between truly natural events and acts of God are drawn. But the insurance companies don't have that problem, they are quite clear about the difference between a house fire, arson and an act of God that burned down the house. Or the flood or whatever. Japan's earthquake falls under the category "acts of God", and rightly so. Even Japan's emporer acknowledged it, and then apologized for his moment of weakness you might say. A moment of weakness or a moment of clarity? I say it was clarity, "the elephant in the room" is that this was an act of God. Many are saying there is no elephant and shame on others for saying there is. Well the elephant DOES exist. I do believe this was an intential act of God, but some don't see it that way, they will NEVER see it that way. No matter how bad the next disaster may be. Egypts pharoah never saw it in the plagues that fell on Egypt in the old testament. The scientists told Noah it was impossible for the earth to flood. Japan's earth quake was "merely" a fault line. The denial will always be there for those to blind to see it.

The mother(s) who lost her child in this earth quake surely must be questioning it, despite the scientific explanation. Many of those in Katrina saw the hand of God, but not the "scientist". The emporer of Japan saw the hand of God, but didn't know how to express it. It IS there, see it,,, or not. If not, prepare for an even larger disaster. What WILL it take? How BIG does it have to be before you acknowledge Him? For some, the size will not matter, they will accept the scientific explanation, no matter what. Accept it at your peril.

[John317]

I think, if Japan was a Christian nation, this disaster wouldn t have happened. It s something we can argue about endlessly. But it is obvious in the world, everywhere where christian principles are influencing society, countries are peacefull, prosperous and happy. Think about the troubles in the islamic nations, the poor people in Hindu India, the disaster in voodoo Haiti etc. etc.

Originally Posted By: Bravus

Heard of Hurricane Katrina? The earthquake and fire in San Francisco in 1906? And the one in 1989?

Your comment is not only offensive, it's

plain wrong on fact.

However natural disasters get distributed, it's not on the basis of religious affiliation.

I agree that these things can happen and have happened in lands where many of the people are Christians.

But what did Ellen White say about the San Francisco earthquake and fire? She linked it to judgments of God, even comparing it to God's judgment against Sodom.

Quote:

San Francisco and Oakland are becoming as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the Lord will visit them. Not far hence they will suffer under His judgments.--Ms 30, 1903. {LDE 114.1}

The terrible earthquake that has visited San Francisco [THE SAN FRANCISCO EARTHQUAKE AND FIRE OF APRIL 18-19, 1906, LEFT 503 DEAD AND RESULTED IN AN ESTIMATED $350 MILLION IN PROPERTY DAMAGE.] will be followed by other manifestations of the power of God. His law has been transgressed. Cities have become polluted with sin. Study the history of Nineveh. God sent a special message by Jonah to that wicked city. . . . Many such messages as his would be given in our age, if the wicked cities would repent as did Nineveh.--Ms 61a, June 3, 1906. {LDE 114.2}

Even in the cities where the judgments of God have fallen in consequence of such transgression there is no sign of repentance. The saloons are still open, and many temptations are kept before the people.--Letter 268, Aug. 20, 1906. {LDE 114.3}

We can't deny that these things are sometimes related to the lives of the people who go through them. To deny it is to deny the plain teachings of the Bible and the Spirit prophecy.

I don't think anyone is saying they know for sure that there is a connection with the earthquake in Japan and God's judgments, but we also can't rule it out. Our job at this time is simply to help them and do what we can to alleviate their suffering. But at the same time, it should be a wake-up call to us because we know what prophecy says about the end-times: that God will send judgments upon nations and peoples for their sins. To ignore this would be foolish.

God uses such catastrophes to wake people up spiritually to their situation and also to give people an opportunity to show their willingness to help those in need. I have no doubt that in the case of Japan, God wants Christians to use this time not only to help with material means but to exhibit the love of Christ and to share the gospel with the people of Japan as it's never been done before.

[phkrause]

Even if God doesn't directly do or not do something, doesn't mean he doesn't do anything. If we believe that God is in charge? Than how do we feel things like this happen? Just by chance? We can't have it both ways. We reap what we sow, and eventually it comes to bite us.

[John317]

Good questions, TS. I would like to know the answers to these questions myself. I'm sure he will answer them.

[Bravus]

Okay Bravus, so you believe that God has nothing to do with natural disasters? One thing we know for sure is that he is able to prevent disasters and he is able to permit them. Then what role do you think God has concerning natural disasters? Do you think it is possible that some disasters are permitted for some higher cause? Do you believe the bible?Do you believe it when God says his ways are higher than ours and we cannot understand Gods ways?Then how can you say for sure that God has nothing to do with natural disasters? Or do you think you know all of God s ways?

Your final couple of sentences come back on you: how can you know that God sends disasters on unbelievers if God's ways are inscrutable to us?

I could write masses more, but clearly there is a strong current of opinion here on the part of a variety of people.

That God is repugnant. That God I utterly repudiate. God is a God of love, not willing that any should perish, not some angry tribal deity who cheers for his team with tsunamis.

Enjoy your evil, insane God. I'm out.

[John317]

I agree. I live in quake country USA, and I know the time is coming when we will be shaken the same way as Japan was. But then I believe it will be a judgment of God. Not that he causes it directly but he allows these things to happen when they do, and he uses them to his purposes. As a Californian, I wouldn't say God's judgments are undeserved. I hope when it happens it has its desired effect. I already know of people who are getting their Bibles and reading them seriously because of what occurred in Japan. They know the Bible talks about more earthquakes happening toward the end of time, and who can deny they are not happening more often and with greater intensity these days?

[phkrause]

Your final couple of sentences come back on you: how can you know that God sends disasters on unbelievers if God's ways are inscrutable to us?

I could write masses more, but clearly there is a strong current of opinion here on the part of a variety of people.

That God is repugnant. That God I utterly repudiate. God is a God of love, not willing that any should perish, not some angry tribal deity who cheers for his team with tsunamis.

Enjoy your evil, insane God. I'm out.

I agree with most of your post, but I believe that when God doesn't want any to perish he is talking about the second death. And I don't believe that that's what TS is saying, he's talking about the first death or sleep.

[Bravus]

They know the Bible talks about more earthquakes happening toward the end of time, and who can deny they are not happening more often and with greater intensity these days?

I can. Alex Carpenter can, and he's done the work to find the evidence: http://spectrummagazine.org/blog/2011/03/15/tragedy-and-our-moral-end

It is simply a matter of perception that quakes are more frequent, and of our short attention spans.

What will you do with the truth?

[ClubV12]

God is indeed love. His actions, when it comes to reproof and warnings are to save us from ourselves! It is His tender mercy that allows it, lest we receive no warning at all and are finally lost forever.

He takes no delight in any of this, nor the death of the wicked, here on earth or the second eternal death. Is there a better solution to the problem of sin, better than it's utter termination at some point? How long will the created beings and mankind have to watch the end results of sin before we are convinced there is no other alternative but to wipe it out, completely and forever?

His law is unchangeable, it has always been and will always remain perfect. It is His character defined, it is who He is. Because it is perfect it cannot change, it cannot be put aside, it DEMANDS justice, mixed with mercy.

The wicked would not be happy in heaven, living an eternity with "rules and laws" they do not appreciate would be torture. For them and all the created beings. Mercy is to irradicate the problem, once and for all. To terminate forever the problem of law breaking and end the suffering of all concerned. Indeed, God is love.

[John317]

I could write masses more, but clearly there is a strong current of opinion here on the part of a variety of people.

That God is repugnant. That God I utterly repudiate. God is a God of love, not willing that any should perish, not some angry tribal deity who cheers for his team with tsunamis.

Enjoy your evil, insane God. I'm out.

What you are apparently saying here is that you accept your own opinion over the plain statements of the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy.

God is angry at sin, and yes, the Bible does indicate that God is also angry at sinners who hold onto sin and don't repent.

Wouldn't a mother be angry at a dog that is destroying her child? That is the position that God is in.

Being angry at sinners doesn't mean God doesn't love sinners. God's anger or wrath at this time-- before the end of human probation-- is mixed with mercy and is intended to lead sinners to repentance and salvation. But the time is coming relatively soon when the wrath of God will be poured out unmixed with mercy.

[Bravus]

God is bigger than books. That's a huge topic of course and not one we can usefully get into in this thread.

But yes, to some extent I do repudiate the God of (parts of) the Bible and the SOP.

Especially in the emphasis that's being so strongly and heartbreakingly demonstrated in this thread.

[Guest truthseeker007]

Bravus, I can t discuss these things with you. I mean you twist my words and it seems like you prefer to live in your own fantasy world. You say i concluded that the disaster of Japan is permitted by God for some higher cause. I did not draw conclusions, i said it could be possible. You on the other hand, draws the conclusion that God has nothing to do with this earthquake/tsunami/nuclear/vulcano disaster. You can only draw that conclusion if you know all of God his ways. Since you are just as much a miserable human being as i am, you are not in the position to draw conclusion, neither am i.

Trust God, even though he might SEEMS unloving to you, remember that we are in a warfare, good against evil. Christ wants us to focus on eternity, this life is not important.

pff i can write 1000 pages of explanation, but it s useless to throw diamands at pigs. (not saying you re a pig though, but you know what i mean). Some people just don t want to listen.