miz3 Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 I help those that help themselves and have a sincere desire to learn. But I find it a waste of time when it becomes apparent the desire is to force others to prove their belief system or argue about a mote when it does not have a salvation issue attached. Those who have a real interest in Truth simply do not act in the way your posts are going...regardless of belief system! God does not open our brain cap like it was hinged and pour everything in. We seek and ask and search. Do you really want Truth and answers or just to argue with the ones you are given? Learning the truth is not a he says or she says or my way and not your way, it is about listening to God and then living the life. Words are cheap, subject to definitions, understanding, etc, but actions are the strongest attention getter and proof of what one believes. By the way...I believe everything one needs to learn, for salvation, is contained in the Bible, no more no less. I have one brief statement about all this. "I agree with you"!
ClubV12 Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 Woody, by strongly supporting the writings of Ellen White I'm being "abusive" and causing more harm than good? Would you recommend NOT giving a copy of the Great Controversy or Steps to Christ to my neighbors? I'm really am confused here, just WHAT are you trying to say? Besides the EGW books have done more harm than good...
Woody Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 Woody, by strongly supporting the writings of Ellen White I'm being "abusive" and causing more harm than good? Would you recommend NOT giving a copy of the Great Controversy or Steps to Christ to my neighbors? I'm really am confused here, just WHAT are you trying to say? Besides the EGW books have done more harm than good... More abuse. I don't respond to this kind of abuse. Yes you are causing harm by this post. When you want to talk straight - I'll talk to you. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Members phkrause Posted May 10, 2011 Members Posted May 10, 2011 Woody, by strongly supporting the writings of Ellen White I'm being "abusive" and causing more harm than good? Would you recommend NOT giving a copy of the Great Controversy or Steps to Christ to my neighbors? I'm really am confused here, just WHAT are you trying to say? Besides the EGW books have done more harm than good... Somewhere I once read or heard that EGW has brought more people to God and the reading of the Bible through her writings than any other person. I think that says a lot about her writings. phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Gustave Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 Somewhere I once read or heard that EGW has brought more people to God and the reading of the Bible through her writings than any other person. I think that says a lot about her writings Would the person who made that statement happen to be a Seventh-day Adventist? ...There is no doubt EGW has brought more people to a peccable god than any other person. ...It's certainly safe to say that.
Moderators Gerr Posted May 10, 2011 Moderators Posted May 10, 2011 Would the person who made that statement happen to be a Seventh-day Adventist? ...There is no doubt EGW has brought more people to a peccable god than any other person. ...It's certainly safe to say that. Your ax must be very dull.
ClubV12 Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 Woody, it's a simple question. "Would you recommend NOT giving a copy of the Great Controversy or Steps to Christ to my neighbors?" Yes or no?
miz3 Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 ClubV12, Maybe I am sticking my big nose where it does not belong. Pray first and ask God to guide you as to what you should do. He knows better than any of us, He knows even better than you. Keep praying till you get an answer from God. Remember God might tell you to leave your neighbors alone. Regardless do whatever God tells you do whatever He tells you to do. Remember the object is for them to know God as written in the Bible. The object is not to make them SDA. That does not mean you should prohibit them from becoming SDA but being SDA is not the end objective. The objective is to get them to Trust God and to Know God. Wherever God leads you go. Period!
Woody Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 I approve of passing out scriptures. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Woody Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 ClubV12, Maybe I am sticking my big nose where it does not belong. Pray first and ask God to guide you as to what you should do. He knows better than any of us, He knows even better than you. Keep praying till you get an answer from God. Remember God might tell you to leave your neighbors alone. Regardless do whatever God tells you do whatever He tells you to do. Remember the object is for them to know God as written in the Bible. The object is not to make them SDA. That does not mean you should prohibit them from becoming SDA but being SDA is not the end objective. The objective is to get them to Trust God and to Know God. Wherever God leads you go. Period! May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
ClubV12 Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 Wait, what?? miz3, I'm not confused on this matter, the issue is very clear to me. The answer to the question is a resounding, YES!!! To my neighbors, to my neighborhood, to the street corner, to the person holding up a sign "Will work for food", to everyone and anyone within my power to reach, to every Nation and tongue, to the world. The Great Controversy is THE book for this time! It needs to be scattered everywhere, especially to your neighbors.
Moderators John317 Posted May 10, 2011 Author Moderators Posted May 10, 2011 ...There is no doubt EGW has brought more people to a peccable god than any other person....It's certainly safe to say that. She taught very plainly that Christ was sinless, so you are wrong in your accusation and claims. Teaching that Christ could have sinned if He chose to is a lot different from teaching that Christ sinned. It makes a huge difference. I completely agree with her on that point, and so do a good number of great Bible scholars. One of them was Karl Barth. Ever heard of him? John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Gustave Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: Gustave ...There is no doubt EGW has brought more people to a peccable god than any other person....It's certainly safe to say that. She taught very plainly that Christ was sinless, so you are wrong in your accusation and claims. Teaching that Christ could have sinned if He chose to is a lot different from teaching that Christ sinned. It makes a huge difference. I completely agree with her on that point, and so do a good number of great Bible scholars. One of them was Karl Barth. Ever heard of him? The SDA doctrine of a "Peccable Christ" does not require that Christ "sinned".... ...The Doctrine requires that Christ "COULD HAVE SINNED and COULD HAVE FALLEN". ...That's what 'Peccability' or a 'Mutable Christ' means. ...It's not an accusation, it's a simple fact. Karl Barth did say that Christ was peccable, this was NOT a denominational stand.... ...It was simply his view brought on by a massive misunderstanding. ...I would seriously doubt if you would accept much of Barth's theology. ...George Storrs as well as Judge Rutherford and Joe Smith also taught a peccable Christ. ...I noticed you didn't mention them.
Gustave Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 The teaching that Christ was PECCABLE is heresy as certainly as night follows the day... ...The concept is utter blasphemy "according to the Scriptures". ...And is a paradox of Adventist teaching. ...A theological train-wreck. Eph 3: 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed IN Christ Jesus our Lord: God "ETERNALLY" purposed that Christ was ALWAYS the Christ... ...This is exactly what the text says. ...And is a dead ringer for what God Himself said via Isaiah. Isaiah 14:24 The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand: Were we purposed IN Christ prior to the world being created? ...Yes OR No answer here please. Does the Scriptures not say that what God has purposed STANDS? ...Yes or No answer here please. Did Ellen White ever use that Scripture to make a point? Ellen White To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, according to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord. Eph. 3:10, 11. We should consider that it was not merely to accomplish the redemption of man that Christ came to earth, it was not merely that the inhabitants of this little world might regard the law of God as it should be regarded, but it was to demonstrate to all the worlds that God's law is unchangeable and that the wages of sin is death. {TMK 367.2} According to Ellen God purposed in Christ that He SHOULD, if He COULD.... ...Vindicate the holy Law of God. ...So that the "worlds" would know for sure God's law is unchangeable. ...And that the wages of sin is death???? What kinds of teachings are these?
Moderators John317 Posted May 10, 2011 Author Moderators Posted May 10, 2011 ...Ellen WhiteTo the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, according to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord. Eph. 3:10, 11. We should consider that it was not merely to accomplish the redemption of man that Christ came to earth, it was not merely that the inhabitants of this little world might regard the law of God as it should be regarded, but it was to demonstrate to all the worlds that God's law is unchangeable and that the wages of sin is death. {TMK 367.2} According to Ellen God purposed in Christ that He SHOULD, if He COULD.... ...Vindicate the holy Law of God. ...So that the "worlds" would know for sure God's law is unchangeable. ...And that the wages of sin is death???? What kinds of teachings are these? They are biblical teachings. She doesn't say "if He COULD." The words, "He SHOULD," don't mean what you think they mean. Don't you believe that Christ came to vindicate God's holy law? Is God's law changeable? What does she mean when she says that Christ came to this world to show that the wages of sin is death? Where does the Bible teach that these things are wrong? John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted May 10, 2011 Author Moderators Posted May 10, 2011 ...And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed IN Christ Jesus our Lord: God "ETERNALLY" purposed that Christ was ALWAYS the Christ... ...This is exactly what the text says. ...And is a dead ringer for what God Himself said via Isaiah. Isaiah 14:24 The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand: Were we purposed IN Christ prior to the world being created? ...Yes OR No answer here please. Does the Scriptures not say that what God has purposed STANDS? ...Yes or No answer here please. None of these verses mean that Christ was not free to choose to obey His heavenly Father. Your view would mean that Christ had to choicce whether He would obey or not. The Father did not take away the ability and the freedom of Christ to choose Him. He was under no compulsion to obey God but He freely chose it because He loved righteousness and hated wickedness. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted May 10, 2011 Author Moderators Posted May 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: ClubV12 Woody, by strongly supporting the writings of Ellen White I'm being "abusive" and causing more harm than good? Would you recommend NOT giving a copy of the Great Controversy or Steps to Christ to my neighbors? I'm really am confused here, just WHAT are you trying to say? Besides the EGW books have done more harm than good... More abuse. I don't respond to this kind of abuse. Yes you are causing harm by this post. When you want to talk straight - I'll talk to you. How is that post doing more harm than good? And how is the post abusive? John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted May 10, 2011 Author Moderators Posted May 10, 2011 ...Karl Barth did say that Christ was peccable, this was NOT a denominational stand.......It was simply his view brought on by a massive misunderstanding. ...I would seriously doubt if you would accept much of Barth's theology. Karl Barth's view of Christ's human nature was similar to what Ellen White taught. Karl Barth based his view of Christ's human nature on the Gospels. I don't see the importance in the fact that Barth's view was not a denominational stand. It's true that I reject much of Barth's theology. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators Gerr Posted May 10, 2011 Moderators Posted May 10, 2011 Woody, I agree with you. I have also seen the "cherry picking" with the "she really meant this" or "you have to understand this in light of this or that". The cherry picking I am talking about is also done with the Bible by people who have an "axe to grind" (dueling metaphors or similes or whatever you call them). This is a serious problem within SDA but also outside. It because people want to form the Truth to suit themselves. I believe in Bible Study: 1. True prayer to God for wisdom (not some formula dashed off, pro forma stuff). 2. Read the exactly what the text says. Not what you want it to say. Not what you hope it says. No fuzzy nuances because of you bias. Etc. 3. Believe what it actually says. 4. God is clear enough. As you put it Woody......No mind reading! Again just like your statement about giving the facts as God gave them to you, you are again giving the IMPRESSION that somehow you are the ONLY ONE who is studying the Bible properly!!! And therefore we should bow to the your conclusions?
Moderators Gerr Posted May 10, 2011 Moderators Posted May 10, 2011 Gerry: My sincere apologies that I misunderstood your intent, but that's how it came across to me. That's exactly how it read to me also Gerry. Gerry: Thanks. Proves my point.
Moderators Gerr Posted May 10, 2011 Moderators Posted May 10, 2011 The teaching that Christ was PECCABLE is heresy as certainly as night follows the day......The concept is utter blasphemy "according to the Scriptures". ...And is a paradox of Adventist teaching. ...A theological train-wreck. ESV | Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. If there was no possibility whatsoever that Christ could have sinned, then He was not tempted as I am tempted because there is ALWAYS a possibility that I will give in. And that makes His temptations all just a charade.
miz3 Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 Again just like your statement about giving the facts as God gave them to you, you are again giving the IMPRESSION that somehow you are the ONLY ONE who is studying the Bible properly!!! And therefore we should bow to the your conclusions? Only in your mind and in the minds of those like you who want to pin something on me so you can point and say, "see he is evil". Even though no such evil exists. You do this because your arguments are vapid.
Moderators Gerr Posted May 10, 2011 Moderators Posted May 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: GerryCabalo Again just like your statement about giving the facts as God gave them to you, you are again giving the IMPRESSION that somehow you are the ONLY ONE who is studying the Bible properly!!! And therefore we should bow to the your conclusions? Only in your mind and in the minds of those like you who want to pin something on me so you can point and say, "see he is evil". Even though no such evil exists. You do this because your arguments are vapid. What does the Bible say about how a fact is to be established?
miz3 Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 GerryCabalo, You can start by reading 1Corinthians 2:6-16. Then read James 1:5.
Gustave Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: Gustave The teaching that Christ was PECCABLE is heresy as certainly as night follows the day......The concept is utter blasphemy "according to the Scriptures". ...And is a paradox of Adventist teaching. ...A theological train-wreck. ESV | Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. If there was no possibility whatsoever that Christ could have sinned, then He was not tempted as I am tempted because there is ALWAYS a possibility that I will give in. And that makes His temptations all just a charade. The Scriptures clearly state that Jesus was tempted "OF" or "BY" the Devil.... ...No one I know of denies this most obvious fact of Scripture. ...What it heretical is when people claim Jesus was tempted WITHIN Himself. ...So that Christ had to resist HIS TEMPTATION and OVERCOME His Temptation. ...That affirmation is simply blasphemous Arianism.. If I walk up to you Gerry and 'tempt you' to join me in shooting some heroin then going out to rob a liquor store... ...And after that chasing down a woman and raping her. ...It can be said I tempted you. ...Or Gerry was tempted "by" Gustave. Perhaps you would NOT be tempted within yourself to do those things BUT... ...If you WERE tempted within yourself you would either RESIST the temptation and OVERCOME it. ...OR you would follow through with it. One thing is absolutely clear - and THAT's if Jesus had to overcome temptations within Himself... ...So that it could be said He resisted His urge then OUT OF THE GATE He was NOT the Christ. James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. "EVERY man" is tempted when THAT MAN is drawn toward something HE LUSTS for already! ...What do you believe Jesus lusted for that was classified as SIN. ...So that "Christ" had to RESIST "HIS" temptation ( not the Devil's )? Mark 7:20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: ALL these evil things come from within, and defile the man Again, the concept that Christ could have sinned and fallen is an Arian blasphemy.
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