Woody Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 Quote: not ashamed to talk about it with anyone; not even the Pope. Do you have an audience with the Pope in the works? If so - do share the details. Quote: It is simply not correct to say that our church is dependent on Ellen G White for our doctrines. History alone can show this. Agreed. And this has been shown and proved and stated SO many times ... I'm not sure why it needs repeated. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
ClubV12 Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 "As coming from "super-natural" means and NOT Sola Scriptura." How the information was arrived it, by whatever means, "super natural", educated study, inspiration, at the end of the day it will either stand the test of "Sola Scriptura", or it won't. The SDA doctrines do indeed pass the test of Sola Scriptura. You could say ALL scriptural understanding is "super natural", and that would be accurate. It is the Holy Spirit that brings understanding to the word, through various methods and using various people.
Gustave Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 "As coming from "super-natural" means and NOT Sola Scriptura." How the information was arrived it, by whatever means, "super natural", educated study, inspiration, at the end of the day it will either stand the test of "Sola Scriptura", or it won't. The SDA doctrines do indeed pass the test of Sola Scriptura. You could say ALL scriptural understanding is "super natural", and that would be accurate. It is the Holy Spirit that brings understanding to the word, through various methods and using various people. I've already demonstrated that the SDA teaching that Christ could have mutated does NOT pass Sola Scriptura... ...That's a huge one there.
Moderators Gerr Posted May 15, 2011 Moderators Posted May 15, 2011 I've already demonstrated that the SDA teaching that Christ could have mutated does NOT pass Sola Scriptura... ...That's a huge one there. What you have demonstrated is strictly your own strawman invention. Christ could have mutated? Mutation. Rubric. Rectum. Believers could never lose salvation. Hmmmm.
miz3 Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 As I understand what is going on with this "other people" actually came up with the teachings......And Ellen White confirmed which interpretation were the right and wrong ones. ...And once she rendered prophetic utterance. ...The teaching or Bible text was forced to mean what she said. This is not "Bible Only" or Sola Scriptura - it is something else totally... ...Therefore if Ellen said a particular Bible text means such and such. ...It has to mean that or the validity of the prophetic utterance is called into question. Your words quoted above are so true! Honesty is vital and I believe SDA are playing word and thought games in regard to Sola Scriptura. Phrases like "point and go" are just contrived devices so that they do not have to face the stark naked Truth that they are twisting and contriving the Word of God to suit themselves. I have noticed how full of the "big brains" and "intellectual superiority" exists on this forum. Of course the fact that such a forum exists makes this fact not a surprise. Such intellectualism is a great barrier akin the the "rich" Pharisees of Christ's day! I have noticed how they bristle and accuse me of trying to be smarter than they are because they believe no one can be smarter they are without agreeing with them and without validating their many sources of knowledge. The Jews of Christ's day felt the same way toward Jesus Christ. I will continue to be sola scriptura.
miz3 Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 Quote: Quote: It is simply not correct to say that our church is dependent on Ellen G White for our doctrines. History alone can show this. Agreed. And this has been shown and proved and stated SO many times ... I'm not sure why it needs repeated. Woody, I have the greatest respect for you but I guess you and I will have to disagree on this one.
Gustave Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 What you have demonstrated is strictly your own strawman invention. Christ could have mutated? Mutation.
ClubV12 Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 Chuckle, you guys take some things to literally and can't see the forest for the tree's. "Point and go" is a term I thought you would be able to grasp, guess not. It's the same principle as inspiration, vision, dreams or insight. It's a "thought" about what a particular passage of scripture might mean. It could be triggered by something as simple as a comment from a friend, or an answer to prayer. The Holy Spirit is not limited in the methods employed. What it DOESN'T mean, that "you" sola you, just you, all by yourself, will ever come to a correct understanding of scripture, but you knew that. You know it takes the Spirit to give you that understanding. What you DON'T seem to understand is HOW the Spirit works through multiple sources. In fact, it seems quite egotistical to suggest the Spirit will speak to you and you alone. THAT is not consistent with bible truth, unless your a prophet... I'm speaking of establishing doctrinal points, by the way.
Gustave Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 Chuckle, you guys take some things to literally and can't see the forest for the tree's. "Point and go" is a term I thought you would be able to grasp, guess not. It's the same principle as inspiration, vision, dreams or insight. It's a "thought" about what a particular passage of scripture might mean. It could be triggered by something as simple as a comment from a friend, or an answer to prayer. The Holy Spirit is not limited in the methods employed.
CoAspen Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 Chuckle, you guys take some things to literally and can't see the forest for the tree's. "Point and go" is a term I thought you would be able to grasp, guess not. It's the same principle as inspiration, vision, dreams or insight. It's a "thought" about what a particular passage of scripture might mean. It could be triggered by something as simple as a comment from a friend, or an answer to prayer. The Holy Spirit is not limited in the methods employed. What it DOESN'T mean, that "you" sola you, just you, all by yourself, will ever come to a correct understanding of scripture, but you knew that. You know it takes the Spirit to give you that understanding. What you DON'T seem to understand is HOW the Spirit works through multiple sources. In fact, it seems quite egotistical to suggest the Spirit will speak to you and you alone. THAT is not consistent with bible truth, unless your a prophet... I'm speaking of establishing doctrinal points, by the way. Hmmmmm.... ( Seems that the kettle is calling the pot black hear by some people on here! If I were to take them serious I would be offended, they do try to raise peoples hackles with their flaming rhetoric! I just find it amusing..... )
Overaged Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 Whip me.... "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ
Overaged Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 From my study into the magisterium of the Seventh-day Adventist Church... ...The distinctives came from the prophetic utterances of Ellen White. I believe that your Magisterium is clouding the issues at hand. "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ
Overaged Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 I've already demonstrated that the SDA teaching that Christ could have mutated does NOT pass Sola Scriptura... ...That's a huge one there. Thats not an SDA teaching so you have demonstrated nothing. "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ
Gustave Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 Thats not an SDA teaching so you have demonstrated nothing. What do you call it then? ...I would be interested in hearing your answer to that.
Gustave Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 Overage, What do you call Ellen's affirmation that Christ could have sinned...? ...And her further affirmations that had He sinned God would have annihilated Christ? ...If that's NOT a mutation capable Christ what would be in your mind?
ClubV12 Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 Wow, you know I see that Christ was willing to risk His entire eternal life and Godly existance to rescue this sinful world! The stakes were huge, the potential for disaster beyond comprehension. Wow...
ClubV12 Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 Biblical or not, it's an interesting thought about the cost Christ was willing to pay. WOULD He have incured such a cost had it been required? I lean toward yes, I think He loved us that much.
Gustave Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 Biblical or not, it's an interesting thought about the cost Christ was willing to pay. WOULD He have incured such a cost had it been required? I lean toward yes, I think He loved us that much. Miz3 is absolutely right, not only is it not Biblical it's heretical... ...Aptly demonstrates how even today educated SDA's reject the Trinity Doctrine w/out even realizing it. ...What happened to the SDA monikor: "Our Doctrines are established on the Basis of Scripture Alone"?
Moderators Gerr Posted May 16, 2011 Moderators Posted May 16, 2011 Was Jesus a man? Did He have freedom of choice?
miz3 Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 GerryCabalo, Jesus Christ was: 1. He was both God and man at the same time. He was not just man! 2. No Christ had no choice! He was what He was because of what He was!
Moderators Gerr Posted May 16, 2011 Moderators Posted May 16, 2011 Examples Ellen White The Lord will certainly do great things for us if we will hunger and thirst after righteousness. We are the purchased property of Jesus Christ. We must not lose our devotion, our consecration. We are in conflict with the errors and delusions that have to be swept away from the minds of those who have not acted upon the light they already have. Bible truth is our only safety. I know and understand that we are to be established in the faith, in the light of the truth given us in our early experience. At that time one error after another pressed in upon us; ministers and doctors brought in new doctrines. We would search the Scriptures with much prayer, and the Holy Spirit would bring the truth to our minds. Sometimes whole nights would be devoted to searching the Scriptures, and earnestly asking God for guidance. Companies of devoted men and women assembled for this purpose. The power of God would come upon me, and I was enabled clearly to define what is truth and what is error. As the points of our faith were thus established, our feet were placed upon a solid foundation. We accepted the truth point by point, under the demonstration of the Holy Spirit. I would be taken off in vision, and explanations would be given me. I was given illustrations of heavenly things, and of the sanctuary, so that we were placed where light was shining on us in clear, distinct rays. All these truths are immortalized in my writings. The Lord never denies His word. Men may get up scheme after scheme, and the enemy will seek to seduce souls from the truth, but all who believe that the Lord has spoken through Sister White, and has given her a message, will be safe from the many delusions that will come in in these last days. {8MR 320.2} You are grasping at straws. She clearly says, "We would search the Scriptures with much prayer, and the Holy Spirit would bring the truth to our minds. Sometimes whole nights would be devoted to searching the Scriptures, and earnestly asking God for guidance. Companies of devoted men and women assembled for this purpose." Bible study, prayer, with the aid of the Holy Spirit as Jesus promised, "brought the truth" to their minds. Prophetic guidance put the stamp of approval on what was arrived at by Bible study. Now, if the procedure had been the OTHER WAY AROUND, then I'd say, you have a case. Otherwise you are just grasping at straws. Try as you might, you won't find ANY of the 28 fundamentals that cannot be supported by the Bible ALONE. PS I'm glad you clarified that believers can lose their salvation.
ClubV12 Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 Gustave, sorry my mental wonderings about what price Christ was willing to pay to rescue us from sin are so annoying. It is a subject we will be studying through out eternity, I'm just jumping the gun a little I guess. I do wonder, just how big a price He would have been willing to pay to save us? I suspect that is not an easily answered question, could take a few thousand years to really sink in. :)
Moderators Gerr Posted May 16, 2011 Moderators Posted May 16, 2011 GerryCabalo, Jesus Christ was: 1. He was both God and man at the same time. He was not just man! ESV | Php 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 5 You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had. 6 Though he was God,* he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to. 7 Instead, he gave up his divine privileges*;[/b] he took the humble position of a slave* and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form,* 8 he humbled himself in obedience to God and died a criminal’s death on a cross. NLT Quote: 2. No Christ had no choice! He was what He was because of what He was! If He had no choice, then He was not a man or a human! What do you call a service done by someone who has no choice?
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