The 1896 Sabbath School Lesson -- What changed?

[Pastor_Chick]

[...]

1. In 1988 God gave you a message stating that the SDA Church was no longer called to be His People and that you were to leave the SDA Church and call out a "new" group. Is this correct?

2. According to your message from God why was this "new" group needed?

3. I see in your answer to question number two above that you make a difference between the "corporate leadership" and the general member population in regards to SDA, Roman Catholicism, etc. Why is this so?

4. When will it be too late even for the general member population of these entities?

5. God showed you in 1990 that the SDA Church had made an image to the beast yet you left SDAism a full two years before. Why this discrepancy?

6. Ok, you and Ellen White are on the same "inspiration" plane. You stated that you are the "prophet" or "special messenger" UNTIL THE END OF TIME. Does that mean you will be translated at the Second Coming along with your followers?

7. Did God tell you how much time we have left until the Second Coming?

Thanks in advance for answering my questions.

1. In 1988 God gave you a message stating that the SDA Church was no longer called to be His People and that you were to leave the SDA Church and call out a "new" group. Is this correct?

ANS: In June of 1988 I began to receive divine contact from God via dreams. I was shown "the keys to the Kingdom" in a most vivid manner, such that I found a relationship with Christ that resulted in victory over all known sin in my life. You might say I had a "Damascus road experience" which turned my life completely around.

In the same year, I was contacted by some fervent students of the Bible who were studying the subject of 144,000. One dream that God gave me dealt with the "marking" in Eze. 9, which also applies to the 144,000. I discovered sweet fellowship with these "cream-of-the-crop" Adventist believers. I was called to gather the 144,000 and facilitate them in the soul-cleansing required to be fitted for translation at the second coming of Christ. This particular group of believers were interested in my message.

In 1988, I received no divinely-mandated call to leave the SDA denomination, though I had difficulty finding the SDA congregations to be interested in "victory over sin." When I would speak of this "most precious message of righteousness by faith," most leaders and members would reject it and shun me.

2. According to your message from God why was this "new" group needed?

ANS: I have trouble with the wording "this 'new' group." I do not have space here to outline all of the principles regarding a "calling out." If you look at the original post in this thread, you will see what was taught by the General Conference in 1896. God has shown me that the teaching in that year was correct. Emphasis should not be placed on "a group" but on what Christ's Church is. The Roman Catholic Church is NOT "Christ's Church." We, professing Adventism, all agree on that. So, truly converted believers naturally gather under the "banner of Christ." When the Angel calls, we obey.

3. I see in your answer to question number two above that you make a difference between the "corporate leadership" and the general member population in regards to SDA, Roman Catholicism, etc. Why is this so?

ANS: It is generally the leaders that make critical decisions, many times avoiding any contact with the membership. For example, did YOU vote to use tithe money to pursue SDA trademark lawsuits? I rather doubt that you even knew they were using the tithe for such. You may not have even known they were suing people. So, when the leadership "steers the ship" in a wrong way, it often takes time for the laity to find out.

When Christ was crucified, the leaders were the ones pushing for his murder. The common people were influenced, but did not realize until Pentecost what they had been guilty of. Many who heard Peter preach about the death of Christ at Pentecost were not even present at the Passover, but they were "corporately accountable" for what the leaders did to Christ.

4. When will it be too late even for the general member population of these entities?

ANS: I am not sure I understand your question, but I will guess and give my answer.

There is an "appointed time" when human probation is to close and he that is holy will remain holy, and he that is wicked will remain wicked. All cases will be decided before human probation closes. The gospel of Christ has been preached around the world "for a witness" (see Matt. 24:14), and soon the end shall come. Even in the darkest corners of Africa, the Bible is available, and the story of Jesus has been told.

God raised up the SDA Church to be the "repairer of the breach" in the Law of YAHWEH for the last days. He intended to gather His elect (which are the 144,000) into one unified Body through the 3 Angels' messages. These saints were to be His "trophies" that demonstrate what He could do with sinners in the last generation when evil was at its height. The SDA Church failed to progress and had to be replaced by a people who would finish this work of producing the 144,000 -- the "eleventh-hour workers".

We are living in the last moments of time. Probation's close is in sight. All that remains is the "death decree" and a short duration of time before that decree is to be executed. Jacob's trouble will come immediately following the close of probation, and after the 7 last plagues, Christ will return in glory.

Everyone has time to repent and be saved up until the close of human probation. We do not yet know the year, but we are told the saints will know at the "voice of YAH."

5. God showed you in 1990 that the SDA Church had made an image to the beast yet you left SDAism a full two years before. Why this discrepancy?

ANS: I hope I did not mislead you by any of my wording. Sometimes when certain details are neglected, the meaning might not be sufficiently clear.

I did not know about the "image of the beast" until YAH showed me in 1990. I left the SDA Church in 1988 because of their rejection of the 1st Angels message (the everlasting gospel). It was similar to EGW's leaving the Methodist Church under the preaching of William Miller (first Angel's message). The 2nd Angel's message of "Babylon is fallen" had not yet sounded, but I was forced out of fellowship by the rejection of truth by the SDA Church.

EGW tells us that the 3 Angels' messages must be received in their proper order. (1-2-3) Truth and light are progressive. "But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day." (Prov. 4:18)

6. Ok, you and Ellen White are on the same "inspiration" plane. You stated that you are the "prophet" or "special messenger" UNTIL THE END OF TIME. Does that mean you will be translated at the Second Coming along with your followers?

ANS: "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." (Matt. 10:22)

It is NOT "my followers" that will be saved. "These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb." (Rev. 14:4) It will be ALL those who are "faithful to YAHWEH" all the way to the end (close of probation).

I expect to be translated; that is my faith. "According to your faith be it unto you." (Matt. 9:29)

7. Did God tell you how much time we have left until the Second Coming?

ANS: No, not in detail. I am 65 years old. I expect to see Christ coming in the clouds of glory. I am in perfect health, so by God's grace, I might live another 40 years, but I am looking for His face much sooner.

Thanks in advance for answering my questions.

You are welcome. If you need more clarifications, let me know.

[Pastor_Chick]

Wowwwww!

[Scion]

Ok, so this was a few pages back, but I really don't feel like the past post I made was properly answered.

I wrote:

Quote:

So I suppose the question is, "Is the name of a Church intellectual property, and if so, whose intellect?"

The reply was given, by BobRyan, as follows:

Quote:

The Laws of our Land (which Paul tells us to respect) state clearly that an organization's trademark name is protected property.

No news there.

You will forgive me for making the very obvious observation that this doesn't even begin to answer the question that I asked. I feel that the answer to that question of WHOSE name it is will clear up issues of whether or not the law is right or not, and how we define "stealing."

It is not adequate to say, "Paul tells us to respect the law." That is not a proper use of that Scripture. Paul tells us to respect laws that are not in conflict with God's will... indeed, we cannot call ourselves "Protestants" without the understanding that our duty as Christians is to "protest" those laws that are not.

What I am seeing a lot from those saying, "The lawsuits are ok," is an assumption that "the law says it" therefore it is acceptable. I am of the mind to seek God's opinion, and not man's on matters relating to religion. So what it comes down to is a re-statement of my question:

Who owns the name "Seventh-day Adventist?"

I agree with Bob in this: the law in the United States is acknowledging that the General Conference of SDAs owns the name, and therefore have every right to protect it. I am NOT disputing that this is the way "the law works."

What I am questioning is, "Is the law working in accordance with God's will." Can we assume that it is?

Quote:

And this issue of property also holds true in cases where someone comes to the court and says "yes but God told me to steal that property in a vision".

Yes, and this is precisely why the courts of the Beast are not equipped to judge religious matters. This is WHY the Great Controversy talks about the Mark of The Beast coming out of the US legal system. Are we, as Adventists, safe in assuming that the courts work perfectly except for that one "mistake" somewhere down the line? That sounds very much like foolishness to me. The only safe Law is God's.

The courts, in order to judge matters such as you suggest above, would necessarily be put in a position to decide who is really receiving visions from God, and who is not. You have to admit, the Bible heroes did a lot of things that we would see as illegal... but they were righteous in those acts, because they trusted and obeyed. That is so far out of man's realm of judgment that it's absurd to say, "The courts work this way, so that must mean it's all right for a Christian."

Quote:

And a half dozen others could all have run off with the name "Seventh-day Adventist" and all claim that God told them to steal that name from the existing church.

And then what? Would the Gospel fail because men "stole" the name God gave to His people? Is the God we worship so fragile, so dependent upon our actions? I just don't see that as a valid argument... sorry. I think that the God who destroyed the firstborn or Egypt to allow His people to escape is quite equipped to protect His own name from the actions of a few misguided identity-stealers (if that is even the right name for the groups you mention) without our puny help.

But if we DO take it upon ourselves to do God a favor by punishing those we think He holds under judgment... we had better be very careful we are not putting a hand on an Ark of which He has said, "This is mine. You must not touch it." In fact, that does sound a lot like something Paul quotes from the Lord, "Vengeance is mine." Doesn't say anything about the way the law works or (in this case, I believe) doesn't work. Nor does saying, "The law allows us to treat people thus and so" constitute a defense if our actions turn out to be false. I think Galamiel said it best, when He said of those who were "stealing" the thunder of the Jewish Church, "Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought; but if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God." (Acts 5:38, 39)

How can ANY course of action but this be safe for the souls of those who would think to bring a penalty on those who may just be following their beliefs and their conscience? Ought we not to be the greatest champions of this? As an Adventist, I get offended when I hear "jokes" about the Jehovah's Witnesses and other non-mainstream groups... I think how we treat people who differ from us on beliefs tells a lot about how close our character is to that of Jesus. And that just has to be the bottom line here (as it is everywhere else). If that sounds naive, I am happily naive on this matter.

[miz3]

Pastor chick,

I do have further questions.

1. Are the 144,000 a "literal" or a "symbolic" number? In other words, will there be exactly 144,000 people at the end, or is this a "symbolic" number that represents all those saved at the Second Coming?

2. What do you mean when you state that one has "victory over every known sin"? What constitutes "victory"?

3. What are the "keys to the kingdom"?

4. What is this "mark" you cited from Ezekiel chapter nine? How can we tell who has the "mark" and who does not have the "mark"?

5. How are you to facilitate these 144,000?

6. Do you have to be a member of the "Creation Seventh Day Adventist Church" to be a member of the 144,000?

7. Is the SDA Church now under the "banner of Christ" or has the SDA Church placed themselves outside the "banner of Christ" like the Roman Catholic Church?

8. How did the SDA Church "REJECT" the First Angel's Message?

[Sonny]

" I left the SDA Church in 1988 because of their rejection of the 1st Angels message (the everlasting gospel)."

What is the gospel?

[Dr. Rich]

Originally Posted By: Pastor_Chick

" I left the SDA Church in 1988 because of their rejection of the 1st Angels message (the everlasting gospel)."

What is the gospel?

Sonny, the Gospel that Jesus testified to is the gospel of (about) the Kingdom of Heaven and is the one Jesus said will be preached to the whole world before Jesus comes.

The gospel that people are preaching today is NOT this same gospel, but the gospel invented by Paul.

As to PastorC's problem, the first angel's message does not come after the events found in Rev. 8. These have not yet happened so it appears that you left the SDa church for a mistake.

[Sonny]

The gospel that people are preaching today is NOT this same gospel, but the gospel invented by Paul.

Paul was set aside by God Himself to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ. If it wasn't for Paul we wouldn't understand the gospel with clarity.

The gospel is the birth, life, death & resurrection of Jesus Christ as the Son of God and the Son of man. The gospel is what Jesus accomplished in His earthly life. The gospel isn't about what He does in us. That's the fruits of the gospel or sanctification.

If you add anything that you do to the gospel you are perverting the gospel.

[Pastor_Chick]

Originally Posted By: Pastor_Chick

" I left the SDA Church in 1988 because of their rejection of the 1st Angels message (the everlasting gospel)."

What is the gospel?

[Sonny]

In your own words....

[Dr. Rich]

Sonny, I will be easy on you since it is clear you don't do much bible study or read the words of Jesus to understand what He said. There are TWO different gospels. One is from the words of Jesus Christ and the other is Paul's gospel ABOUT WHAT HE THOUGHT Jesus did. Paul never knew Jesus nor learned anything from the eyewitnesses so how could he know? He didn't!

If you are believing in the wrong gospel then I will pray that you learn the truth some day before it is too late to repent.

To prove my point--show me ONE place where Paul said anything the same as what Jesus did and taught??? Please! Show me where Jesus ever said or taught that anyone could be saved by God's grace??? Same goes for righteousness by faith?

[skyblue888]

The Gospel as revealed by the Lord Himself in 1888:

"How long will you hate and despise the messengers of God's righteousness? God has given them His message. They bear the word of the Lord: There is salvation for you (pardon and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit) but only through the merits of Jesus Christ." T.M.97 *parenthesis supplied

This message has not one thread of human devising in it. It is a message from God. It bears divine credentials. It is the everlasting Gospel in clear, distinct lines.

"There is salvation for you but only through the merits of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. The grace of the Holy Spirit has been offered to you again and again." T.M.97.

The grace of the Holy Spirit which is exceedingly abundant with faith and love that are in Christ Jesus (1 Tim.2:14) is what we desperately need. This "great grace" (Acts 4:33) can be ours only as we come to God trusting wholly in the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour.

"Looking unto Jesus and trusting in His merits we appropriate the blessings of light and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." Testimonies, Vol.5, p.744.

Thus we read, "We shall come in repentance and contrition, with a despairing sense of our own finite weakness, and learn that we must daily apply to the merits of the blood of Christ that we may become vessels fit for the Master's use."

sky

[miz3]

Pastor chick,

I do have further questions.

1. Are the 144,000 a "literal" or a "symbolic" number? In other words, will there be exactly 144,000 people at the end, or is this a "symbolic" number that represents all those saved at the Second Coming?

2. What do you mean when you state that one has "victory over every known sin"? What constitutes "victory"?

3. What are the "keys to the kingdom"?

4. What is this "mark" you cited from Ezekiel chapter nine? How can we tell who has the "mark" and who does not have the "mark"?

5. How are you to facilitate these 144,000?

6. Do you have to be a member of the "Creation Seventh Day Adventist Church" to be a member of the 144,000?

7. Is the SDA Church now under the "banner of Christ" or has the SDA Church placed themselves outside the "banner of Christ" like the Roman Catholic Church?

8. How did the SDA Church "REJECT" the First Angel's Message?

[Pastor_Chick]

Pastor chick,

I do have further questions.

1. Are the 144,000 a "literal" or a "symbolic" number? In other words, will there be exactly 144,000 people at the end, or is this a "symbolic" number that represents all those saved at the Second Coming?

2. What do you mean when you state that one has "victory over every known sin"? What constitutes "victory"?

3. What are the "keys to the kingdom"?

4. What is this "mark" you cited from Ezekiel chapter nine? How can we tell who has the "mark" and who does not have the "mark"?

5. How are you to facilitate these 144,000?

6. Do you have to be a member of the "Creation Seventh Day Adventist Church" to be a member of the 144,000?

7. Is the SDA Church now under the "banner of Christ" or has the SDA Church placed themselves outside the "banner of Christ" like the Roman Catholic Church?

8. How did the SDA Church "REJECT" the First Angel's Message?

miz,

1. Are the 144,000 a "literal" or a "symbolic" number? In other words, will there be exactly 144,000 people at the end, or is this a "symbolic" number that represents all those saved at the Second Coming?

ANS: The 144,000 is a symbolic number. It does not represent "all those saved at the Second Coming." All of "the saved" since Adam will be "saved" at the second coming of Christ (except those such as Enoch, Elijah, and a few others who were translated prior to the second advent). The 144,000 are those who embraced the "sealing message" of the "three angels" of Revelation 14. We have no way of knowing the literal number of souls.

"144" refers to the time of service that remnant messengers are laboring. It is during the "last hour" of time before the 1,000 years of Revelation. The "thousand" represents the "last generation" prior to the 1,000 years. "Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;" (Deut. 7:9)

There are 144 hours in the work week.

(6 days X 24 hours per day = 144 hours)

The last hour in the week that welcomes the Sabbath is hour number 144. The last hour of redemption that ends prior to the 1,000 years is symbolized by 144. Thus, the 144,000 church finishes the work of the gospel on earth.

2. What do you mean when you state that one has "victory over every known sin"? What constitutes "victory"?

ANS: Every person must be convicted of sin before they will call upon the mercy of God. People who are "convicted," are also aware of their "guilt," and the have a "knowing" of their specific sins and defects. They are burdened by the guilt of sin, being held in bondage to sin's law of death. They seek God's forgiveness for their sin and a cleansing from it. The result is a connection with Christ -- the "victory" which is the experience of the "life of Christ" "formed within" (the new birth) whereby "the sinner" now has the "power of God unto salvation" and can resist every temptation to sin and is transformed to become "a saint."

3. What are the "keys to the kingdom"?

ANS: I do not have space here to delineate all "the keys" that God has taught us. The "keys" required for salvation are the "requisite steps of conversion."

1) repentance: A resolute turning away from sin.

2) faith: An acceptance of and exercise of the actual "faith of Jesus".

3) baptism: A covenant agreement (vow) to be faithful to a loving personal relationship with Christ and His Father, along with a pledge of loyalty to God's family in Heaven and on earth.

4. What is this "mark" you cited from Ezekiel chapter nine? How can we tell who has the "mark" and who does not have the "mark"?

ANS: Briefly and simply, Eze 9 describes the sealing of God's servants. A mark is placed upon all those who accept the message of the "three angels." Effectively, this is the final gathering of the 144,000 during the investigative judgment of the living. There is no visible mark, but the life of Christ is demonstrated in the character of those being sealed. Those who reject the message of the 144,000 have their names blotted from the book of life and their sins are retained.

5. How are you to facilitate these 144,000?

ANS: I share the message that YAHWEH gives me.

6. Do you have to be a member of the "Creation Seventh Day Adventist Church" to be a member of the 144,000?

ANS: There will be many members from the SDA Church who have died and will be resurrected in the "special resurrection" to join the living saints. For those in this generation who will be numbered among the 144,000, their covenant of baptism will be among the Creation Seventh Day Adventists.

7. Is the SDA Church now under the "banner of Christ" or has the SDA Church placed themselves outside the "banner of Christ" like the Roman Catholic Church?

ANS: The SDA Church organization has placed itself outside the "banner of Christ." It is not the Church of Christ. Members of the SDA Church still have a short time to repent. A time is soon coming when the Angel will say, "Too late, too late."

8. How did the SDA Church "REJECT" the First Angel's Message?

ANS: As I mentioned in a previous answer, the "first angel's message" is the "everlasting gospel." The General Conference (along with a majority of members) refused the message of "righteousness by faith" when the "1888 message" was revisited by Elders Weiland and Short in the early 1950s. Other messengers came to them with the same appeal, only to be rejected. When the message of righteousness came to me, I accepted it and presented it to the SDA Church. They refused it. God gave the SDA denomination a period from about 1950 through 1988 (approximately one generation) to effect "corporate repentance" and accept the "everlasting gospel." Sadly, they would not.

[skyblue888]

Over the years, I have studied very carefully and prayerfully Wieland and Short's messages. In 1950, they published their book "The 1888 Message Re-Examined," and in it they made this very interesting confession:

"Many even in the world today are trying to discover the light which God revealed to His people in 1888. No one has so far been successful. Religious thinkers are yearning for something no one clearly understands, though it would seem that a few are on the verge of discovery." pp.242,243.

29 years later, in 1979, they published their revised edition of "The 1888 Message Re-Examined," and, on page 184 they made this startling confession:

"It would seem that 1888 presents a problem unique in the long history of God's confrontation with His people. There is a truth involved therein that seems more elusive than any in the history of past ages."

So, pastor Chick, since the message was still elusive to them in 1979, how could they have presented it to the church in 1960 and how could the church have rejected it?

I noticed that in their publications, they would quote from an important section of Testimonies to Ministers where Mrs. White is discussing the 1888 message. They skipped the very sentence that is the very key to understanding and accepting the 1888 message. That sentence is: "There is salvation for you but only through the merits of Jesus Christ." T.M.97.

They would quote the beginning of the paragraph: "How long will you hate and despise the messengers of God's righteousness? God has given them His message. They bear the word of the Lord... The Holy Spirit has been offered to you againt and again."

The sentence between "They bear the word of the Lord" and "The Holy Spirit has been offered to you again and again," was skipped. "There is salvation for you but only through the merits of Jesus Christ." This is the sentence missing and yet it is the very heart and essence of the 1888 message!

This is the very message that needs to be proclaimed to the church in demonstration of the Spirit and power of God before it goes to the world and swell into the loud cry.

So it is not true that Wieland and Short proclaimed that message since it was still elusive to them in 1979.

I see no evidence that they today are teaching this message which Mrs White said was just as simple as ABC.

"Looking unto Jesus and trusting in His merits we appropriate the blessings of light and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." 5 T 744.

sky

[Pastor_Chick]

In your own words....

Sonny,

"It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." (Matt. 4:4)

My "own words" are "every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Christ is my life.

"If I alone bear witness of Myself, My testimony is not true." (John 5:31)

[Sonny]

Paul never knew Jesus nor learned anything from the eyewitnesses so how could he know? He didn't!

Paul's writings make up about 53% of the NT. Without him folks would definitely be caught up into the Galatian gospel, which is really no gospel at all.

[miz3]

Every person must be convicted of sin before they will call upon the mercy of God. People who are "convicted," are also aware of their "guilt," and the have a "knowing" of their specific sins and defects. They are burdened by the guilt of sin, being held in bondage to sin's law of death. They seek God's forgiveness for their sin and a cleansing from it. The result is a connection with Christ -- the "victory" which is the experience of the "life of Christ" "formed within" (the new birth) whereby "the sinner" now has the "power of God unto salvation" and can resist every temptation to sin and is transformed to become "a saint.

1. Pastor chick using your quote above, who decides whether or not a person has been "convicted" or not? Who decides whether a person has overcome all known sin?

2. How do we actually know they have "overcome" all "known sin"?

3. Does God tell you DIRECTLY who has and who has not "overcome" all known sin?

4. How many members are currently in the Creation Seventh Day Adventist Church worldwide?

5. Is the Creation Seventh Day Adventist Church commissioned by God to spread the Three Angels Message or to be the haven where the 144,000 are to abide?

6. Have your members of the Creation Seventh Day Adventist Church ever seen you carried off in "vision"? Or do you receive your "visions" without any witnesses?

[Sonny]

Miz3,

Anyone claiming to overcome the love of self is a liar! No one is living Christ's life! If they are they don't need Christ. Hence, they are then anti-christs.

[miz3]

Sonny has responded to my post.

What do you say to my questions, Pastor chick?

[Pastor_Chick]

Originally Posted By: Pastorchick

Every person must be convicted of sin before they will call upon the mercy of God. People who are "convicted," are also aware of their "guilt," and the have a "knowing" of their specific sins and defects. They are burdened by the guilt of sin, being held in bondage to sin's law of death. They seek God's forgiveness for their sin and a cleansing from it. The result is a connection with Christ -- the "victory" which is the experience of the "life of Christ" "formed within" (the new birth) whereby "the sinner" now has the "power of God unto salvation" and can resist every temptation to sin and is transformed to become "a saint.

1. Pastor chick using your quote above, who decides whether or not a person has been "convicted" or not? Who decides whether a person has overcome all known sin?

2. How do we actually know they have "overcome" all "known sin"?

3. Does God tell you DIRECTLY who has and who has not "overcome" all known sin?

4. How many members are currently in the Creation Seventh Day Adventist Church worldwide?

5. Is the Creation Seventh Day Adventist Church commissioned by God to spread the Three Angels Message or to be the haven where the 144,000 are to abide?

6. Have your members of the Creation Seventh Day Adventist Church ever seen you carried off in "vision"? Or do you receive your "visions" without any witnesses?

miz,

I have prayed for "wisdom from above" in order to properly respond to this interrogation. YAHWEH showed me how to answer as YAHSHUA would answer.

1. Pastor chick using your quote above, who decides whether or not a person has been "convicted" or not? Who decides whether a person has overcome all known sin?

ANS: Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Rom. 14:4)

2. How do we actually know they have "overcome" all "known sin"?

ANS: And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. (Rev. 12:11)

3. Does God tell you DIRECTLY who has and who has not "overcome" all known sin?

ANS: Why do you ask? We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. (1 John 3:14) I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. (John 5:30)

4. How many members are currently in the Creation Seventh Day Adventist Church worldwide?

ANS: Why do you ask? Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (Rev. 14:12) Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

(Matt. 7:13, 14)

5. Is the Creation Seventh Day Adventist Church commissioned by God to spread the Three Angels Message or to be the haven where the 144,000 are to abide?

ANS: I do not fully understand your question. Suffice it to say, We are "the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth." (1 Tim. 3:15)

6. Have your members of the Creation Seventh Day Adventist Church ever seen you carried off in "vision"? Or do you receive your "visions" without any witnesses?

ANS: Why does it matter? If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. (John 7:17)

YAHWEH instructed me that I shall not continue this dialogue on the forum. It is not within the subject matter of the 1896 Sabbath School Lesson topic. If you are seeking truth and wish to find it, you may continue your search via email.

csda_relief at yahoo dot com.

Or, in the alternative, if you insist that we converse in the public arena, then open a thread in the proper place and invite me to participate.

[miz3]

miz,

I have prayed for "wisdom from above" in order to properly respond to this interrogation. YAHWEH showed me how to answer as YAHSHUA would answer.

1. Pastor chick using your quote above, who decides whether or not a person has been "convicted" or not? Who decides whether a person has overcome all known sin?

ANS: Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Rom. 14:4)

2. How do we actually know they have "overcome" all "known sin"?

ANS: And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. (Rev. 12:11)

3. Does God tell you DIRECTLY who has and who has not "overcome" all known sin?

ANS: Why do you ask? We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. (1 John 3:14) I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. (John 5:30)

4. How many members are currently in the Creation Seventh Day Adventist Church worldwide?

ANS: Why do you ask? Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (Rev. 14:12) Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

(Matt. 7:13, 14)

5. Is the Creation Seventh Day Adventist Church commissioned by God to spread the Three Angels Message or to be the haven where the 144,000 are to abide?

ANS: I do not fully understand your question. Suffice it to say, We are "the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth." (1 Tim. 3:15)

6. Have your members of the Creation Seventh Day Adventist Church ever seen you carried off in "vision"? Or do you receive your "visions" without any witnesses?

ANS: Why does it matter? If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. (John 7:17)

YAHWEH instructed me that I shall not continue this dialogue on the forum. It is not within the subject matter of the 1896 Sabbath School Lesson topic. If you are seeking truth and wish to find it, you may continue your search via email.

csda_relief at yahoo dot com.

Or, in the alternative, if you insist that we converse in the public arena, then open a thread in the proper place and invite me to participate.

Pastorchick,

This is classic avoidance! These are not hard questions. I am asking you these questions so that I know the "ground" on which you stand. I want to know the Truth about you. Why are you afraid to answer these simple questions about yourself and your movement. If you really are from God you would not have any problem with such simple basic questions.

Ellen White was very open about her visions and her messages from God. Why are you soooo reluctant to answer my simple questions? Surely if you really are from God answering these questions would help me and others to see the Truth of your message and your church. Such avoidance can only tell us you are not open and honest about who you are and what your agenda is all about.

I have not asked you disclose any private information or any information that would jeopardize you in court. These are logical questions someone would ask who wants to know about you and to understand your truth! You are acting as if I am a threat to you. I am not your enemy. If you are hiding something then the Truth is your enemy.

This is exceedingly strange behavior for a man and a group that claims to be God's chosen people and who has been sent to gather the "elect" into His fold. How can I know whether you are for real or just a fake if you do not tell me all about yourself?

Just answer the questions in a straight forward and correct way. It is simple!

Which spirit are you really consulting?

[Pastor_Chick]

[...]

Which spirit are you really consulting?

YAHWEH told me how you would respond, and He is true in His wisdom.

I shall repeat myself for the last time. You did not believe me, and you have not believed me. I do not judge you, but my words will judge you in the investigation going forth in Heaven.

YAHWEH has given me instructions.

1) Seek whatever "truth" you desire via email, or

2) IF you insist on holding a public forum for this interrogation, please open a proper thread for it and invite me to participate.

This will be my last response to you on this thread.

[BarbaraLynn]

I had to go back to page 16 to find this quote. This thread has gotten way off track!

But if we DO take it upon ourselves to do God a favor by punishing those we think He holds under judgment... we had better be very careful we are not putting a hand on an Ark of which He has said, "This is mine. You must not touch it." In fact, that does sound a lot like something Paul quotes from the Lord, "Vengeance is mine." Doesn't say anything about the way the law works or (in this case, I believe) doesn't work. Nor does saying, "The law allows us to treat people thus and so" constitute a defense if our actions turn out to be false. I think Galamiel said it best, when He said of those who were "stealing" the thunder of the Jewish Church, "Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought; but if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God." (Acts 5:38, 39)

How can ANY course of action but this be safe for the souls of those who would think to bring a penalty on those who may just be following their beliefs and their conscience? Ought we not to be the greatest champions of this? As an Adventist, I get offended when I hear "jokes" about the Jehovah's Witnesses and other non-mainstream groups... I think how we treat people who differ from us on beliefs tells a lot about how close our character is to that of Jesus. And that just has to be the bottom line here (as it is everywhere else). If that sounds naive, I am happily naive on this matter.

Thank you, Scion, for your comments. I agree with you completely. We must be the greatest champions of liberty of conscience for all people, regardless of their beliefs.

[skyblue888]

"There can no more conclusive evidence that we possess the spirit of Satan than the disposition to hurt and destroy those who do not appreciate our work, or act contray to our ideas." D.A.487.

Great quote.

sky

[ClubV12]

Actually, I agree with Pastor Chick on not wishing to respond to miz3's rather rude questioning and insistence on getting an answer. Indeed, this line of questioning passed the search for truth and crossed into more of an "inquisition" at some point. I'm not even "inspired" and can see that. :)