Does the Bible really teach 1+1=3?

[Pastor_Chick]

This topic of Divine Persons is nothing new to SDAs. What I would like to request is that all "proofs" be sourced entirely from the Bible alone, except in cases where a particular Scripture can be illuminated by an inspired comment from EGW.

Here is the basis for my request.

But God will have a people upon the earth to maintain the Bible, and the Bible only, as the standard of all doctrines and the basis of all reforms. The opinions of learned men, the deductions of science, the creeds or decisions of ecclesiastical councils, as numerous and discordant as are the churches which they represent, the voice of the majority--not one nor all of these should be regarded as evidence for or against any point of religious faith. Before accepting any doctrine or precept, we should demand a plain "Thus saith the Lord" in its support. (GC 595)

[Naraiel]

Second Witness:

"Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?" Prov 30:4

In this passage the Bible also teaches 1 + 1 = 2

[Jody]

Hello Pastor "Chick"

I also have a witness from the NT.

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. - Jhn 17:3 KJV

[Gerr]

My Bible teaches that sometimes 1 + 1 = 1; sometimes 1 + 1 + 1 = 1.

[Pastor_Chick]

My Bible teaches that sometimes 1 + 1 = 1; sometimes 1 + 1 + 1 = 1.

Gerry,

I would like to see the "witnesses" from Scripture. I cannot learn anything from what you said in brief.

[Pastor_Chick]

Hello Pastor "Chick"

I also have a witness from the NT.

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. - Jhn 17:3 KJV

Jody,

Thank you, but it would help to know what the "witness from the NT" is witnessing to. Is it testifying 1+1=3, 1+1=2, or as Gerry has suggested, something like 1+1=1?

[skyblue888]

1+1+1 = 1

One God in Three Persons.

sky

[BarbaraLynn]

I would like to add another scripture here:

1 John 1:3 "That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ."

This also shows that 1 + 1 = 2

[Pastor_Chick]

1+1+1 = 1

One God in Three Persons.

sky

sky,

You told me you were a Bible student. Problem?

[Pastor_Chick]

I would like to add another scripture here:

1 John 1:3 "That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ."

This also shows that 1 + 1 = 2

BarbaraLynn,

If the Holy Spirit was a "person," do you think that person would also be in the "fellowship"? What happened?

[Naraiel]

Blessings,

I believe that what Pastor Chick meant when he said "The Bible does not teach 1+1 = 3" is that not only the Bible doesn't not teach the concept of the Holy Spirit as a person, in the same sense the Father and the Son are, but that also the Bible teaches or shows very simple reasoning that even a child can understand it.

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Pastor Chick, I found these other two witnesses

"And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever."

1 Person (Father) + 1 Person (Son) = 2

The Holy Spirit does not receive worship as a person, as the Father and the Son do.

"And now I am [Jesus] no more in the world, but these [my disciples]are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." Jhon 17:11

Here Jesus, the Son, was praying to the Father to unify his followers in the same way He and His Father were one,for they shared the same spirit, one purpose.

[Pastor_Chick]

I think the following Scripture adds some light:

"All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him." (Matt. 11:27; KJV)

"All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son, except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father, except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him." (Matt. 11:27; NASB)

"Anyone" should include the Holy Spirit, that is, IF the HS was a "person."

The Father (1) plus the Son (1) = 2 Divine Persons

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

1+1+1 = 1

One God in Three Persons.

sky

sky,

You told me you were a Bible student. Problem?

"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all. Amen." 2 Cor.13:14.

That's Three.

"For there are Three that bear record in Heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these Three are one." 1 John 5:7.

I suppose you will not accept 1 John 5:7 as the truth (tampered by men) as many non-trinitarians do in order to justify their teaching.

sky

[Jody]

Hi Pastor "Chick", I believe the "witness" of John 17:3 teaches 1+1=2. To have life eternal, we must know the Father and His Son. :)

[Jody]

Blessings to All, I have another witness of 1+1=2 from the OT

And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name [is] The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD: - Zec 6:12 KJV

Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both. - Zec 6:13 KJV

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

2+1=1

Illustration: 2 hydrogen atoms + 1 oxygen atom = 1 molecule of water

It all depends on the substance you are counting..and one needs to remember that we do NOT know what God's composition is. Nor the Holy Spirit. Nor the angels.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

My Bible teaches that sometimes 1 + 1 = 1; sometimes 1 + 1 + 1 = 1.

Gerry,

I would like to see the "witnesses" from Scripture. I cannot learn anything from what you said in brief.

1. Ex. of 1+1=1

a. ESV | Ge 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

b. ESV | Jn 10:30 I and the Father are one.”

2, Ex. of 1+1+1=1

KJV 1900 | 1 Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

ESV | Ro 3:29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since God is one—

ESV | Mt 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

[Pastor_Chick]

2+1=1

Illustration: 2 hydrogen atoms + 1 oxygen atom = 1 molecule of water

It all depends on the substance you are counting..and one needs to remember that we do NOT know what God's composition is. Nor the Holy Spirit. Nor the angels.

rudy,

Thank you for the lesson. What we do not know, we cannot speak to with any authority. That is why I wish to search the Scriptures to see what God says.

Now, I could take your lesson from nature and develop it in the following way:

2 Divine Persons

+ 1 Eternal Spirit of those Persons

= 1 Diety

Does that work?

[skyblue888]

2, Ex. of 1+1+1=1

KJV 1900 | 1 Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

ESV | Ro 3:29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since God is one—

ESV | Mt 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Gerry

___________________

Does that not work?

sky

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

2+1=1

Illustration: 2 hydrogen atoms + 1 oxygen atom = 1 molecule of water

It all depends on the substance you are counting..and one needs to remember that we do NOT know what God's composition is. Nor the Holy Spirit. Nor the angels.

rudy,

Thank you for the lesson. What we do not know, we cannot speak to with any authority. That is why I wish to search the Scriptures to see what God says.

Now, I could take your lesson from nature and develop it in the following way:

2 Divine Persons

+ 1 Eternal Spirit of those Persons

= 1 Diety

Does that work?

It works, if that's the way you want to decipher the composition of the Godhead. There is nothing in Scripture to determine that composition. It is not a salvational issue.

(btw, I sure wish people could spell "deity" correctly.. every time I see "diety" it makes me think of a diaper...no offense intended at you, chick - lots of people make that spelling error...)

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

KJV 1900 | 1 Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

___________________

Does that not work?

sky

Isn't that text part of the The Comma Johanneum?

Originally Posted By: taken from Wiki

The Comma Johanneum is a comma (a short clause) contained in most translations of the First Epistle of John published from 1522 until the latter part of the nineteenth century, owing to the widespread use of the third edition of the Textus Receptus (TR) as the sole source for translation. In translations containing the clause, such as the King James Version, 1 John 5:7-8 reads as follows (with the Comma in bold print):

5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

The resulting passage is an explicit reference to the Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

It does not appear in the older Greek manuscripts, nor in the passage as quoted by many of the early Church Fathers. The words apparently crept into the Latin text of the New Testament during the Middle Ages, "[possibly] as one of those medieval glosses but were then written into the text itself by a careless copyist. Erasmus omitted them from his first edition; but when a storm of protest arose because the omission seemed to threaten the doctrine of the Trinity, he put them back in the third and later editions, whence they also came into the Textus Receptus, 'the received text'."[1] Although many traditional Bible translations, most notably the Authorized King James Version (KJV), contain the insertion, modern Bible translations such as the New International Version (NIV), the New American Standard Bible (NASB), the English Standard Version (ESV), the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) and others tend to either omit the Comma entirely, or relegate it to the footnotes. The official Latin text of the Catholic Church (a revision of the Vulgate) also excludes it.[2]

[Pastor_Chick]

[...]

(btw, I sure wish people could spell "deity" correctly.. every time I see "diety" it makes me think of a diaper...no offense intended at you, chick - lots of people make that spelling error...)

rudy,

Thanks for the spell-check. I missed it (obviously).

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Interesting what you chose to comment upon...

[Israfel]

Another witness from OT that shows that 1+1=2

"The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

When [there were] no depths, I was brought forth; when [there were] no fountains abounding with water." Prov.8:22. See also Jn 1:1

The Father or the Lord,(1) created the Son (1). 1+1=2

[Israfel]

and John 1:1 says... "In the beginning was [the Word], and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. "

Again 1+1=2