miz3 Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Man the gospel must be incredibly complicated, or so it would seem from this thread! No the Gospel is not complicated, Sonny is making it complicated by all his contortions and additions. My seven points were very simple and very direct! Quote
Twilight II Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 Twilight is exactly correct it is a Gift. The whole Plan of Salvation is a Gift! Humans canot "EARN" anything in this Plan! Everything in the Plan is a "GIFT"! If 'it' is a free gift then you must be able to support this by using the words of Jesus. I don't believe you can because it is NOT a free gift as the words of Jesus found in Revelation prove. Rev. 22:12 "Behold, I am coming quckly and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done." A reward is NOT a free gift! Very simple Dr Rich. We are rewarded based on our acceptance of the gift... And our subsequent treasuring of that gift. Quote
Dr. Rich Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 I take it Dr. Rich since you think only the Gospels and other "eyewitness" writings are "inspired" that you don't believe the Old Testament is "inspired" either? Jesus verified the OT (Law and the Prophets as the word "Scripture" was known by) by reading it and teaching from it. Come on miz3, lets use some common sense on all of this! I suppose you never bothered to read the words of Jesus to even understand what Jesus said. True? From reading what you have here on this thread and other threads, it is clear to me that you may have overlooked the simple and clear words of Jesus that brings unity to those who understand them and obey them. Quote
miz3 Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Answer: Mary That is NOT what the Bible says. The Bible says that Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit! You keep adding to the Scripture! Quote
Twilight II Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 Humans canot "EARN" anything in this Plan! Everything in the Plan is a "GIFT"! But God must do it within the framework of His law - agape love. God cant' lie....So the law had to be fulfilled by Christ! And He did by taking our corporate, fallen life into Himself. Hence He rewrote our history. It does not say in the scripture that He took our nature "into" Himself. Not that I am aware of. He clothed Himself with our nature is my understanding. Quote
Sonny Posted June 20, 2011 Author Posted June 20, 2011 "Behold, I am coming quckly and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done." A reward is NOT a free gift! Quote
Sonny Posted June 20, 2011 Author Posted June 20, 2011 My seven points were very simple and very direct! And false....The gospel isn't complicated if you allow God to teach it to you. Maybe that's why I'm not getting anywhere? Quote
Sonny Posted June 20, 2011 Author Posted June 20, 2011 Originally Posted By: Sonny Answer: Mary That is NOT what the Bible says. The Bible says that Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit! You keep adding to the Scripture! Mary gave birth to Christ as the Son of Man. Try reading your Bible....The Holy Spirit blended Christ's Deity with the humanity in Mary's womb. That humanity belongs to all of us.... Quote
Sonny Posted June 20, 2011 Author Posted June 20, 2011 He clothed Himself with our nature is my understanding. That's metaphoric! How can someone wear your nature? It's not literal. Quote
miz3 Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Dr. Rich, "Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water." John 4:10. Now just who and what is the "GIFT OF GOD"? Oh, oh, oh, I do believe the GIFT OF GOD is Jesus Christ! Jesus Christ Himself identifies Himself as the GIFT OF GOD! I believe you now have your Authority! Jesus Christ identified Himself as God's Gift! WOW! Quote
miz3 Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 The Holy Spirit blended Christ's Deity with the humanity in Mary's womb. That humanity belongs to all of us.... That is not what the Bible says! You keep adding to what the Bible actually says. You make it complicated! Quote
miz3 Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Quote: Originally Posted By: miz3My seven points were very simple and very direct! And false....The gospel isn't complicated if you allow God to teach it to you. Maybe that's why I'm not getting anywhere? You are wrong Sonny. My seven points are indeed Biblical! Why do you keep adding things to the Word of God that are not in the Word of God? You are constantly doing this! This is why you are constantly WRONG! Quote
Sonny Posted June 20, 2011 Author Posted June 20, 2011 Your gospel is unbiblical. It is a lie. Sorry, but I'm telling you the truth. Not meaning to hurt your feelings. Quote
Dr. Rich Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Originally Posted By: Sonny Answer: Mary That is NOT what the Bible says. The Bible says that Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit! You keep adding to the Scripture! "And the angel answered and said to her (Mary), 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you, and for that reason, the Holy Offspring shall be called "Son of God"". Lk. 1:35 Both the Father (Most High) and the Mother (Holy Spirit) placed Michael as a zygot into the womb of Mary so that Michael the Prince of the Kingdom of Heaven, would be born just as a human would be in order to be called both the son of man and the Son of God. Confirming this is Rev. 5 showing that Jesus was considered both God and Human since he came to this earth as a human. Further confirmation of this is Rev. 12 where we see in verse 5 the "Woman as the Holy Spirit giving birth to Jesus and giving the same birth to those who go to battle against Satan right at the end of this earth's history as found in verse 17. Please notice that this Woman can't be Mary or the church as neither were in heaven (verse 1). Quote
Dr. Rich Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 "Jesus answered her, If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water." John 4:10. Now just who and what is the "GIFT OF GOD"? Oh, oh, oh, I do believe the GIFT OF GOD is Jesus Christ! Jesus Christ Himself identifies Himself as the GIFT OF GOD! I believe you now have your Authority! Jesus Christ identified Himself as God's Gift! WOW! Hey, no problem with this as John 3:16 says, God gave His Son to those in this world from the lost sheep of Israel so that the Son could testify to the truth by His words, them being the same as the words of God. Those words are the living water that Jesus was talking about. Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of Israel (see Matthew 15:24). This living water is the testimony of Jesus. If you drink it, then you obey those words. If you do not keep the commandments and obey, then you have refused to drink of the living water. Quote
Musicman1228 Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Dr. Rich, "Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water." John 4:10. Now just who and what is the "GIFT OF GOD"? Oh, oh, oh, I do believe the GIFT OF GOD is Jesus Christ! Jesus Christ Himself identifies Himself as the GIFT OF GOD! I believe you now have your Authority! Jesus Christ identified Himself as God's Gift! WOW! I now actually see the problem, so let me try to explain: Miz3, To you everything revolves around the 'person' of Jesus Christ. The 'person' to you is 'the Gift of God'. My concern is that this interpretation does not take into consideration that Jesus IS GOD. God is not some object that is given, in what ever form you choose to use as the gift. It is also clear to me (and obviously not to you, else we would not be having this discussion) that Jesus was NOT speaking of Himself with this woman, He was speaking in metaphor about what it was that the woman was directly concerned with, and that was the words Jesus was speaking to her that told her all about herself. This woman gave water to Jesus, something in their culture she should not have done. So Jesus pointed to the water and made the connection to 'LIVING WATER'. This Living Water was HIS WORDS, and His Words are Truth. It is this Living Water that brings eternal life. Remember Jesus did not say the He would set anyone free. Jesus said that 'The Truth will (eventually) set you free'. It is HIS words that are understood through HIS Spirit (Holy Spirit) that bring HIS Kingdom into sanctification. It is only through the process of sanctification that HIS people are able to DO the truth so they can come into the LIGHT. When they come into this LIGHT it is only then that they are set free. Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth. John 17:17. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been carried out in God.” John 3:21. “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, (32) and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” John 8:31-32. Does this help? Quote
Dr. Rich Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Read this...it's good stuff. No it's not! These are the words of Jack Sequeira who has no clue as to the real truth. His foundation of belief is built on sand, the sand of words from people who never knew Jesus. Quote
miz3 Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Your gospel is unbiblical. It is a lie. Sorry, but I'm telling you the truth. Not meaning to hurt your feelings. 1. Sonny, it is not "my" gospel. It is the Gospel of God and the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and the Gospel of the Bible. 2. I did not lie. The Gospel I preach is Biblical and you are purposefully ignoring and misstating what is quoted from Scripture. 3. I am not trying to hurt your feelings either, but the Truth is you are not using Scripture correctly because you keep adding things to Scripture that are not there. You also twist the Scripture and the Words of Scripture to mean what they are not saying. 4. Your gospel is the Jack S. gospel not the Biblical Gospel. 5. Your close but close does not work here. Quote
miz3 Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 It is also clear to me (and obviously not to you, else we would not be having this discussion) that Jesus was NOT speaking of Himself with this woman, He was speaking in metaphor about what it was that the woman was directly concerned with, and that was the words Jesus was speaking to her that told her all about herself Sorry, musicman but you are wrong. Jesus was indeed speaking of Himself. He was the Living Water. NO METAPHOR! Just fact! Quote
Dr. Rich Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Originally Posted By: musicman1228 It is also clear to me (and obviously not to you, else we would not be having this discussion) that Jesus was NOT speaking of Himself with this woman, He was speaking in metaphor about what it was that the woman was directly concerned with, and that was the words Jesus was speaking to her that told her all about herself Sorry, musicman but you are wrong. Jesus was indeed speaking of Himself. He was the Living Water. NO METAPHOR! Just fact! LOL! And perhaps you also believe that the wine is the real blood of Jesus and the bread is the real flesh of Jesus? Isn't that why many of those who were Jesus' disciples left Him? Come on man, of course it was a metaphor! When you obey the words of Jesus then you are drinking the living water! Quote
Moderators John317 Posted June 20, 2011 Moderators Posted June 20, 2011 Jesus was indeed speaking of Himself. He was the Living Water. NO METAPHOR! Just fact! "I AM the water of life.." That's a metaphor. The same with Jesus being called "the Lamb of God." Jesus is not a literal lamb or literal water. Therefore, it is of necessity metaphor. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Sonny Posted June 20, 2011 Author Posted June 20, 2011 "I AM the water of life.." That's a metaphor. The same with Jesus being called "the Lamb of God." Jesus is not a literal lamb or literal water. Therefore, it is of necessity metaphor. At last, someone with some common, Biblical sense.... Quote
Sonny Posted June 20, 2011 Author Posted June 20, 2011 These are the words of Jack Sequeira who has no clue as to the real truth. Actually, Jack is heavy on the Apostle Paul. Aren't you the one who rejects Paul? Quote
miz3 Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Oh, my! Jesus was indeed referring to Himself as the Living Water. Neither Jesus Christ nor I said that Christ was H2O! Jesus Christ is not a metaphor! Jesus Christ is Fact! He is indeed the Living Water. Living Water is not H2O! It is Jesus Christ. Come on people read what it says not what you want it to say! And yes Jesus is the Lamb of God, the real Lamb. Not a metaphor! Jesus did not say he was a lamb that goes "bleet, bleet". Jesus Christ was the actual Lamb of God. Jesus Christ is a NOT A metaphor. Jesus Christ is FACT! Everybody is into hidden meanings and metaphors and they miss what God is actually telling them. You make everything into some mystical symbol and some complicated puzzle. That kind of theology leads down the wrong road. God is about straight talk not some complex riddle. Quote
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