Twilight II Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 However, you cannot make the Scripture say what it does not say. And Scripture says, conceived by the Holy Spirit. It does not say the "Holy Spirit and Mary". Mary was just an incubator! Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. You are correct, it does state what you have said. Quote
Twilight II Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 Mary was just an incubator! Why even use Mary? This idea is mindless - it's nonsense. Come on, miz3, get real! This theology is so off it's crazy. Do you actually have a biblical argument sonny? It seems to me that you can only offer veiled insults in this post? Quote
Twilight II Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 In fact placing our sins on Jesus Christ at the Cross, only, meets all the demands of the Law. You can't place sins on someone like putting pants on. It's crazy. Incorrect: Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all Quote
Sonny Posted June 23, 2011 Author Posted June 23, 2011 that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. That means the Holy Spirit united Christ's Deity (who He is by native right) with our fallen humanity in the womb of Mar. It was His work.... Quote
Sonny Posted June 23, 2011 Author Posted June 23, 2011 It seems to me that you can only offer veiled insults in this post? I have given him a lot of proof. He ignores my Biblical evidence....Insults towards his theology is all that's left. And his theology is insulting...it insults God....it insults His law and it insults real theology. Quote
Twilight II Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Originally Posted By: Twilight II that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. That means the Holy Spirit united Christ's Deity (who He is by native right) with our fallen humanity in the womb of Mar. It was His work.... It does not say that... It says that Christ was conceived by the Holy Ghost. It does not say Christ was conceived by both of them. I cannot see how you draw your conclusion from the above text. I can see how an idea has been "inserted" in there, but not how it could be "derived" from there... Quote
Sonny Posted June 23, 2011 Author Posted June 23, 2011 Originally Posted By: Sonny You can't place sins on someone like putting pants on. It's crazy. Incorrect: Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all It's a metaphor!!!! Come on!!! Quote
Twilight II Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Originally Posted By: Twilight II It seems to me that you can only offer veiled insults in this post? I have given him a lot of proof. He ignores my Biblical evidence....Insults towards his theology is all that's left. And his theology is insulting...it insults God....it insults His law and it insults real theology. If you cannot respond with a scriptural argument each time, then you should not insult another believer. I might not agree with everything miz3 says, but I will post the scripture when I do not agree. Your mocking approach does nothing for the discussion. And it certainly does not glorify Christ. Was Christ "mocking" of others? We can all fall into this temptation, but please do not try to excuse it by claiming to defend God with this usage of mockery... Quote
Twilight II Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 If you have the truth Sonny, it will come across in the way you treat others. So far, I have seen no evidence that you do indeed have the truth, based on the way you are treating miz3. Quote
Sonny Posted June 23, 2011 Author Posted June 23, 2011 that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. In other words the work of conception was accomplished by God's Spirit. Since "you died to the law in the body of Christ" then then God's Spirit had to combine your life with Christ's. It's common sense. However if you didn't die with Christ then you must stand before the law yourself. The law will then demand obedience, but since you have failed and continue to fall short of Christ's life, the law demands your death - your 2nd death. Hence no heaven for you.... Either you are complete "in Christ" by the Holy Spirit uniting your humanity with Christ or you must obey the law as Christ did. Quote
Sonny Posted June 23, 2011 Author Posted June 23, 2011 So far, I have seen no evidence that you do indeed have the truth, based on the way you are treating miz3. God works through imperfect vessels. Look at King David's life. Quote
miz3 Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Quote: Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all The text is correct because it says that God "laid" on Jesus Christ our sins. It did not say that God "infused" our nature into Jesus Christ. Laid meaning to place! Quote
miz3 Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 It's a metaphor!!!! Come on!!! Here is my PROOF that you are the one using metaphors! I am not using metaphors because the text uses only FACT and therefore I use only FACT! There is no way to get a metaphor out of Isaiah 53:6. Quote
Guest Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 The text is correct because it says that God "laid" on Jesus Christ our sins. It did not say that God "infused" our nature into Jesus Christ. Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the nature of Abraham. Quote
Sonny Posted June 23, 2011 Author Posted June 23, 2011 The text is correct because it says that God "laid" on Jesus Christ our sins. John 1:36 When he saw Jesus passing by, he said, "Look, the Lamb of God!" If I use your logic, miz3, Jesus is a lamb - He's an animal. So the text is correct - Jesus is a lamb. Quote
Sonny Posted June 23, 2011 Author Posted June 23, 2011 Originally Posted By: Sonny It's a metaphor!!!! Here is my PROOF that you are the one using metaphors! miz3 I'm not using metaphors, the Bible is using metaphors. Quote
Sonny Posted June 23, 2011 Author Posted June 23, 2011 Definition of a metaphor: 1] a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance, as in “A mighty fortress is our god.” 2] something used, or regarded as being used, to represent something else; emblem; symbol. Quote
miz3 Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 John 1:36 When he saw Jesus passing by, he said, "Look, the Lamb of God!" If I use your logic, miz3, Jesus is a lamb - He's an animal. So the text is correct - Jesus is a lamb. You know very well that text is referring to the Cross when Jesus Christ, like the OT lamb would have the sins of the sinner placed (laid) on IT (the lamb, and the Lamb of God). In other words, Jesus Christ was God's Lamb, (not just an animal) sent to be slaughtered for your sin and my sin! There is nothing in this text that this took place at the Incarnation. My logic has nothing to do with this text. The text speaks for itself! As have all the texts that I have quoted. Quote
miz3 Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Sonny, The Bible is not using a metaphor in Isaiah 53:6. You trying to make the Bible say something it does not say. NO METAPHOR IN ISAIAH 53:6! Quote
miz3 Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 miz3, did your life die "in Christ"? YES! ON THE CROSS ONLY! Quote
miz3 Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 I have to go for now but I will be back in a couple of hours. Quote
Guest Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 The text is correct because it says that God "laid" on Jesus Christ our sins. It did not say that God "infused" our nature into Jesus Christ. Heb 2:16,17 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the nature of Abraham. Therefore in all things he had to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. Why do you keep ignoring these texts miz3? It proves that what you are saying here is wrong. Quote
Twilight II Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Originally Posted By: Twilight II So far, I have seen no evidence that you do indeed have the truth, based on the way you are treating miz3. God works through imperfect vessels. Look at King David's life. By their fruits you shall know them Sonny. If you really want to present what you have as the truth, then you must have the spirit that comes with the truth. Otherwise no-one will ever accept what you have to say, because they will not be able to see beyond the incorrect attitude. Mark :-) Quote
Twilight II Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Sonny, The Bible is not using a metaphor in Isaiah 53:6. You trying to make the Bible say something it does not say. NO METAPHOR IN ISAIAH 53:6! It is a common reaction we can all have when something plain in the bible does not fit our understanding. We "reduce" it to a "metaphor", so that our understanding can be triumphant. There are times when metaphors are used, but I believe you are correct Miz3, in that this is not a metaphor, but a spiritual fact. I see no reason to call this a metaphor whatsoever. Quote
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