What Scripture proves you will keep the Sabbath in the New Earth?

[Pastor_Chick]

So Pastor Chuck, you do admit that you will become anyone just to fool people into believing you like Paul did too? Would not that be called deception? Isn't deception a lie? Hmmm? [...]

DR,

Which is easier?

1) To leave an incorrigible fellow to his folly, or

2) To shout into the ears of a deaf man.

[Dr. Rich]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

So Pastor Chuck, you do admit that you will become anyone just to fool people into believing you like Paul did too? Would not that be called deception? Isn't deception a lie? Hmmm? [...]

DR,

Which is easier?

1) To leave an incorrigible fellow to his folly, or

2) To shout into the ears of a deaf man.

I take it that you don't like me shouting into your deaf ears.

[Pastor_Chick]

So Pastor Chuck, you do admit that you will become anyone just to fool people into believing you like Paul did too? Would not that be called deception? Isn't deception a lie? Hmmm? [...]

[WayneV]

LHC,

My apologies to you for misunderstanding what you wrote. It seemed that your post was limiting the continual light from the Father and the Son to the throne-room only and not to the entire city. Thanks for clarifying.

Agape`

[Dr. Rich]

Did Jesus ever trick people by becoming someone else just to win them over to His gospel? Nope! Why? Because If He did, then that would have been lying.

[olger]

Did Jesus ever trick people by becoming someone else just to win them over to His gospel? Nope! Why? Because If He did, then that would have been lying.

ok

[LifeHiscost]

LHC,

My apologies to you for misunderstanding what you wrote. It seemed that your post was limiting the continual light from the Father and the Son to the throne-room only and not to the entire city. Thanks for clarifying.

Agape`

Your apology is accepted, only because you gave it, not because it was necessary. I find you to be a gentleman and a scholar. Even better, a brother in Christ.

" Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!"Psalm 133:2 NKJV

God blesses!

[hfig]

IMO I believe a good place to start looking and avoid the "Jewish Laws" topic is to start at the beginning, what was God doing before sin?

Genesis 2

1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Aren't we trying to get back to how things were before sin entered into the world, and if this is so, wouldn't you think we would be doing things the way God had intended them to be in the first place?

[addvantage]

My take on this;

The New Moon specifically reflects God's reckoning of time. God is no respector of persons or the laws of man. Thus man's calendar of the months and their divisions are not regarded by God.

We can make calculations of time based on the divisions of time that have been created by man, but God still regards His manner of keeping time accordng to the calendar that He created. God does not change.

Some people regard the New Moon as though it were a Sabbath, but the Bible does not indicate this. It merely marks the time in which one month ends and another begins, much the same as the time of sundown marks one day from another.

[BobRyan]

Isaiah 66 -

Quote:

15 For behold, the LORD will come in fire And His chariots like the whirlwind, To render His anger with fury, And His rebuke with flames of fire.

16 For the LORD will execute judgment by fire And by His sword on all flesh, And those slain by the LORD will be many.

17 ""Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens, Following one in the center, Who eat swine's flesh, detestable things and mice, will come to an end altogether,'' declares the LORD.

18 ""For I know their works and their thoughts; the time is coming to gather all nations and tongues. And they shall come and see My glory.

...

Is 66

22 ""For just as the new heavens and the new earth Which I make will endure before Me,'' declares the LORD, ""So your offspring and your name will endure.

23 ""And it shall be from new moon to new moon And from Sabbath to Sabbath, All mankind will come to bow down before Me,'' says the LORD.

And of course from Mark 2:27 The Sabbath was "made for mankind"

----- Makes it clear that the Sabbath will continue forever throughout the time of the New Earth.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Bob, are you a theologian?

sky

Not I said the goose!

[BobRyan]

I think I have seen one germane Scripture that pins down the observance of Sabbath in the new earth, viz, Isa. 66:23. Correct me if I am wrong.

Quote:

And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, saith the LORD.

But, what about that phrase "from one new moon to another?" What are we to do with that?

At the time of Rev 21 when we finally have the New Earth -- there will be TWO creation events to commemorate - the first one from Genesis 1 and the second one from Rev 21.

in Christ,

Bob

[addvantage]

Quote:

I will disagree with the assertion that the passage is relevant to Sabbath observance in the new earth. What is it in the wording of the verse that makes you consider it to be implying such Sabbath observance, especially in light of the fact that "there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light" (see Rev. 22:5)?

Agape`

It appears that you are confused between what is applied to the "New Earth" and what applies to "That Great City"

Revelation 21:

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

This is not in reference to the New Earth.

[BobRyan]

No text says that there will be "no night on the New Earth" or "No sun" for the New Earth.

All we have is that the CITY has "no NEED" of the Sun and that the CITY has "no night".

Again - details are to be noticed - not ignored in this case.

in Christ,

Bob

[addvantage]

No text says that there will be "no night on the New Earth" or "No sun" for the New Earth.

All we have is that the CITY has "no NEED" of the Sun and that the CITY has "no night".

Again - details are to be noticed - not ignored in this case.

in Christ,

Bob

Now I have read and re-read all of Rev 21 and 22 and I find no specified reference to the "no sun" and "no night" being applied to the new earth. I do find it directly applying to the New Jerusalem city.

Perhaps you should quote the Scriptures instead of relying on hearsay or memory. There is no connected reference between "no night" to "the new earth"

[Light Fox]

[...]

Some people regard the New Moon as though it were a Sabbath, but the Bible does not indicate this. It merely marks the time in which one month ends and another begins, much the same as the time of sundown marks one day from another.

Thanks for your input on this, Add. I'm actually curious about something you said here. I agree with the unquoted portions of the post you made regarding the New Moon being used to mark time, and God's methods being different from the calenders used commonly today. My understanding of the Jewish method of time-keeping was that the first day of each month was the New Moon.

Here's where I come into a problem, however. The Bible actually does indicate the New Moons were kept as a holy day; now, whether that is "as though it were a Sabbath" may be another question, but they did seem to be kept similarly, in any event, and were listed side by side in regards to things like not buying and selling, visiting prophets, and worship gatherings / opening certain gates of Jerusalem. (Eze. 46:1, Amos 8:5, 2 Kings 4:23 for a few examples)

That said, how do you deal with the double-edged sword effect of the Sabbath and New Moon being cited side by side in Isaiah?

In other words, if you are suggesting that the New Moon portion of the verse is merely saying "from month to month," does that mean that the Sabbath portion merely means "from week to week?" If not, what would be the basis of your differentiation?

[addvantage]

I do not separate the issues. I am of the belief that God has called His people in the last days to remember the Law:

Malachi 4:4. Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

Does this not speak to us in these last days?

Among these statutes are the Feasts of the Lord. These are determined by the new moons.

The traditions that have been handed down from Protestantism has reached deep into Adventism. God has made it clear that we are not to do as the heathen do, yet among nominal Adventists today and for as many years as we have been a denomination, there are open heathen practices among us. Such abominations are remedied by keeping the Law of God.

We say we believe in all the Scriptures, and that they do not contradict... but in practice, Adventists have a habit of pick and choose rather than to accept the truth as stated in the Scriptures. They invent the contradictions by corrupting the interpretation of a select few texts. Rather than learning and moving forward with the advancing knowledge of truth from learning the Scriptures, many of us stand entrenched in the inherited traditions from the incomplete reformation teachings of Protestantism.

Jeremiah 16

19 ...the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

Jeremiah 10

1. Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of

Israel:

2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

[BobRyan]

No text says that there will be "no night on the New Earth" or "No sun" for the New Earth.

All we have is that the CITY has "no NEED" of the Sun and that the CITY has "no night".

Again - details are to be noticed - not ignored in this case.

[Tobiwan]

I am trying to understand the ideas being presented here.

The text refers to events with no indication that the time intervals will be the same as what we are using today. With the creation of a new Heaven and Earth, will we also get a new moon, or keep the one we have now? Will we have the same configuration of our solar system with the exact status as today? Will it be restored to pre flood status, or pre fall (no curse) status? We know next to nothing about what God had in mind for this creation, with only brief glimpses passed on from around the campfires of generations of people and then recorded by people thousands of years after the fact.

Given the vastness of the universe God wants to turn us loose in, do you really think They will require us to return each (whatever interval specified) to present ourselves to Them like some censes? I mean if it is required there will have to be some form of counting to confirm no one skipped. Get real :-)

We are invited to "Remember the Sabbath day" Ex. 20:8

We as Seventh-day Adventist have grown up with and hung on to an idea of the importance of the Sabbath in last day events. There is a plan to put the book "The Great Controversy" in every home in America, I really wish it were going to be "The Desire of Ages" . The Law can be condensed and summed up with the concept of Love. The Sabbath is an indication of God's love for us and His idea of rest before Adam did any work. He says remember... don't forget how much I love you. Don't forget the rest I envisioned for you. Don't ignore or reject the love I have for you and want to share through you to your world. Ty Gibson in his book "A God Named Desire" calls this "an unstoppable Love". He says it much better then I can, and this picture of God is what needs to be on the lips of every Seventh-day Adventist.

I am coming to the conclusion that we do not need proof texts for the Sabbath to convince anyone. God's unstoppable love, as demonstrated in the life, activities, and death Christ, that He longs to share through us will have a greater impact on this world then any proof text argument we could present

[John317]

Me too.

However, we need to remember that the quote from Is. 66 also mentions the keeping of New Moons. How do we explain this?

(After posting this, I read the discussion and find that it is already being discussion.)

[John317]

... if you desire to use Ellen White, Matthew Henry, Adam Clarke, or any other reputable source as commentary on the meaning of a passage of Scripture, please feel free to do so. Although, for the time being, let's grant equal weight to the commentaries being used. Otherwise, the discussion boils down to "My commentator can beat up your commentator!" Is this agreeable to you?

`

Essentially a Bible commentary is only as good as its arguments and evidence. We cannot accept conclusions without seeing the reasoning and the evidence that led the commentator to his conclusion. A conclusion by itself is nothing.

[Pastor_Chick]

Me too.

However, we need to remember that the quote from Is. 66 also mentions the keeping of New Moons. How do we explain this?

(After posting this, I read the discussion and find that it is already being discussion.)

If we are to conclude that Isa. 66 is referring to the keeping of the Sabbath Day in the New Earth, it seems intuitive that the New Moon Festival falls under an equal application of interpretation.

[John317]

...The text refers to events with no indication that the time intervals will be the same as what we are using today. With the creation of a new Heaven and Earth, will we also get a new moon, or keep the one we have now? Will we have the same configuration of our solar system with the exact status as today? Will it be restored to pre flood status, or pre fall (no curse) status? We know next to nothing about what God had in mind for this creation, with only brief glimpses passed on from around the campfires of generations of people and then recorded by people thousands of years after the fact.

If we are talking about keeping the Sabbath on the new earth, I have no doubt that the weekly cycle will continue just as it has always been. There's no valid reason that I know of to think the weekly cycle will change on the new earth. The earth will continue to rotate at the same speed as it did in the beginning-- with seven days of 24 hours each.

Originally Posted By: Tobiwan

We are invited to "Remember the Sabbath day" Ex. 20:8

We as Seventh-day Adventist have grown up with and hung on to an idea of the importance of the Sabbath in last day events.

Not sure what you mean by "hung up." The Sabbath will certainly be an important (even of central) issue.

Originally Posted By: Tobiwan

put the book "The Great Controversy" in every home in America, I really wish it were going to be "The Desire of Ages" . The Law can be condensed and summed up with the concept of Love. The Sabbath is an indication of God's love for us and His idea of rest before Adam did any work. He says remember... don't forget how much I love you.

I think the reason The Great Controversy is going to every home in America is that Ellen White said that of all her books, she felt the greatest burden of seeing The Great Controversy have as large a distribution to the public as possible. Why? Because it clearly conveys God's last warning message to the world-- the Three Angels Messages.

[John317]

...If we are to conclude that Isa. 66 is referring to the keeping of the Sabbath Day in the New Earth, it seems intuitive that the New Moon Festival falls under an equal application of interpretation.

I think you're right. I am sure that God will appoint monthy celebrations of His saving work for humanity, and I can guarantee you that all the saved will LOVE getting together to praise and remember God's work of salvation. No one will complain because God will be central in all our thinking and living.

I believe the passage concerns God's plan should Israel have accepted the Messiah and gone on to fulfill God's intention to evangelize the world through the nation of Israel. So parts of the prophecy are conditional.

[skyblue888]

Agree with your last posts John.

sky :)