What Scripture proves you will keep the Sabbath in the New Earth?

[John317]

Thanks, sky. Hope you're having yourself a really blessed, happy Sabbath there in the great country of Canada. :-)

[skyblue888]

Been cloudy here the last two days but other than that everything is okay. Wishing a happy Sabbath to you in that great state of California. :)

[John317]

Thank you.

It's very warm here in sunny Southern Cal. A nice breeze blowing through the dining room window. I think it is really the beginning of summer here finally. We had more than usual rain and "cold" weather for May and early June. "Cold" here is anything under 60f.

[phkrause]

I think you're right. I am sure that God will appoint monthy celebrations of His saving work for humanity, and I can guarantee you that all the saved will LOVE getting together to praise and remember God's work of salvation. No one will complain because God will be central in all our thinking and living.

I believe the passage concerns God's plan should Israel have accepted the Messiah and gone on to fulfill God's intention to evangelize the world through the nation of Israel. So parts of the prophecy are conditional.

I'm also agreed with this statement John.

[Pastor_Chick]

John,

What do we do with these from the SOP?

The Lord pronounced His blessing upon all who keep holy the Sabbath day. His commandments are given to a thousand generations, and when that period is ended the redeemed host shall be in the city of God and observed the Sabbath there, and especially come up to worship God from Sabbath to Sabbath and from one new moon to another. (Isa. 66:23.) (Ms. 173, 1897)

Its sanctity reaches into eternity; for God declares that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, His subjects shall come up to worship before Him in the earth made new. (ST 04-07-98)

God teaches that we should assemble in His house to cultivate the attributes of perfect love. This will fit the dwellers of earth for the mansions that Christ has gone to prepare for all who love Him. There they will assemble in the sanctuary from Sabbath to Sabbath, from one new moon to another, to unite in loftiest strains of song, in praise and thanksgiving to Him who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb forever and ever. (FLB 37)

It seems Ellen would have used ellipses to rule out the New Moon Festival had she been pointing only to Sabbath observance in the new earth.

[John317]

I think it's likely that "new moon" has reference to monthly celebrations or times for worship that will be instituted after the one thousand years. Since God gave His people Israel special times for worship and rememberance of God's acts in history, I wouldn't be at all surprised if God institutes such special times for the saved on the new earth. This is speculation, but is it possible that we will have special times to remember various events in the history of Redemption? In any case, I have no doubt we will worship God on the seventh-day Sabbath as well as during special times set aside during some of the months.

[addvantage]

I think it's likely that "new moon" has reference to monthly celebrations or times for worship that will be instituted after the one thousand years. Since God gave His people Israel special times for worship and rememberance of God's acts in history, I wouldn't be at all surprised if God institutes such special times for the saved on the new earth. This is speculation, but is it possible that we will have special times to remember various events in the history of Redemption? In any case, I have no doubt we will worship God on the seventh-day Sabbath as well as during special times set aside during some of the months.

Take note from the following verses that the Messiah desires to eat again of the Passover in the new kingdom. This would be in heaven at the beginning of the millennium and not waiting until the new earth. All of this is set by the fourteenth day of the first month, of the sighting of the new moon. God is keeping His calendar both here on this earth and in heaven.

Matthew 26

17. Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?

18 And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.

19 And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they

made ready the passover.

20 Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve.

26. And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them,

saying, Drink ye all of it;

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

Mark 14

22 And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.

23 And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.

24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

Luke 22

13 And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they

made ready the passover.

14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve

apostles with him.

15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.

17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:

18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

John 13

1. Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

2 And supper being ended...

4 He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.

5 After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded.This last passage in John also raises another issue: WHY does our church tradition always break for the footwashing BEFORE the unleavened bread and wine? Here Christ's example is that He had the supper BEFORE the footwashing, not after. It would seem a more sanitary option to have it reversed from the current practice.

[BobRyan]

I am coming to the conclusion that people are getting far too comfortable with a "make stuff up" POV rather than a "sola scriptura" POV for doctrine -- accepting things like Isaiah 66 and "from Sabbath to Sabbath statement" in the new Earth as being valid for some and not paying any attention at all to it - in the case of others.

Better to trust divine revelation - than human imagination.

BTW - God claims the earth events can be seen "in real time" by the intelligent beings in this Universe. So no need to freek out over the limited knowledge of time and space thing.

in Christ,

Bob

[WayneV]

Essentially a Bible commentary is only as good as its arguments and evidence. We cannot accept conclusions without seeing the reasoning and the evidence that led the commentator to his conclusion. A conclusion by itself is nothing.

John317,

I agree with what you have said here. However, until we examine the arguments and evidence behind the reasoning, if we are seeking truth, we should not automatically give one commentary superior sway. I have found one commentary to be excellent on a particular passage while seeming to connect disjointed thoughts on another. That is the reason that I requested equal weight for the time being. Thanks for your comments.

Agape`

[WayneV]

Quote:

I will disagree with the assertion that the passage is relevant to Sabbath observance in the new earth. What is it in the wording of the verse that makes you consider it to be implying such Sabbath observance, especially in light of the fact that "there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light" (see Rev. 22:5)?

Agape`

It appears that you are confused between what is applied to the "New Earth" and what applies to "That Great City"

Revelation 21:

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

This is not in reference to the New Earth.

advantage,

It is not that I was confused, there was simply no reason to suggest, by drawing the distinction, that those inside the city might not be keeping the Sabbath while everyone else in the new earth would be keeping it. Remember, the Revelation verses supplied were only there as support for my observation that Isaiah 66:23 seems to be speaking of a 24/7 type of worship as opposed to a one day per week worship on the Sabbath. Note the words “from” and “to” in the Isaiah passage. The passage does not use the word “on”, as do many other verses referring to worship "on" the Sabbath/Seventh-day. This was the crux of my comments. The verses from Revelation were simply additional support for the lack of an “evening to evening” pattern for a new earth Sabbath; further suggesting a 24/7 worship relationship.

I would be interested in your comments on my Isaiah 66:23 observation. Thanks for your comments.

Agape`

[addvantage]

When in heaven, worship will no doubt occur. The millennium is a thousand year Sabbath rest. But I disagree with the 24/7 idea that would obliterate the sanctified status which God gave to the Sabbath ABOVE all other days. I see no types or hints or other verses that lead to that 24/7 conclusion. The Bible is not a book that provides isolated texts that are not supported by several others.

What happens within the Holy City in regard to being no night nor the light of the sun, does not preclude the presence of the keeping of time as God has commanded and set forth. There are no barriers about the Holy City that erases time from within it. Nor does it matter whether the City is in the place called heaven during the millennium nor after it descends onto the earth made new. The keeping of time is God's. He is not disjointed from the time He created whether He is in the Holy City or not.

What other support do you have other than Isaiah that would suggest a different time scheme than what was given to us in Genesis?

What God has blessed is blessed forever; (the Sabbath) and God does not change nor repent.

[addvantage]

I will disagree with the assertion that the passage is relevant to Sabbath observance in the new earth. What is it in the wording of the verse that makes you consider it to be implying such Sabbath observance, especially in light of the fact that "there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light" (see Rev. 22:5)?

Agape`

(cont.)

(To) addvantage,

It is not that I was confused, there was simply no reason to suggest, by drawing the distinction, that those inside the city might not be keeping the Sabbath while everyone else in the new earth would be keeping it. Remember, the Revelation verses supplied were only there as support for my observation that Isaiah 66:23 seems to be speaking of a 24/7 type of worship as opposed to a one day per week worship on the Sabbath. Note the words “from” and “to” in the Isaiah passage. The passage does not use the word “on”, as do many other verses referring to worship "on" the Sabbath/Seventh-day. This was the crux of my comments. The verses from Revelation were simply additional support for the lack of an “evening to evening” pattern for a new earth Sabbath; further suggesting a 24/7 worship relationship.

I would be interested in your comments on my Isaiah 66:23 observation. Thanks for your comments.

Agape`

I do not "note the words" (`from and to') to mean a contiguous 24/7 state of worship.

I see many times that a particular phrase is taken in its translated (from Hebrew or Greek to English) form, and by applying a specific emphasis upon the contrived linguistic syntax, that a new and different meaning is applied to it. The most appauling example of this is when speaking of Revelation 14:7 which states that the "hour of His judgment is come" to mean that God is somehow being judged, and then all sorts of supporting argument is brought in saying that in this passage, the "CHARACTER" of God is being judged by the whole universe. This sort of literary corruption is an abomination to God, (and to me.) The Scriptures state in several other places that `God is judged by NO man,' and `ALL judgment is committed to the Son.' Thus the conclusion of those who would like to obliterate the judgment that God holds over man, by turning the judgment upon Him, are obviously corrupting the interpretation of the Scriptures, and not supported by any other verses.

Another example is 2Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

People take this to bash anyone else's interpretation of Scripture that they disagree with, calling it their "private interpretation" in order to discredit them. They omit the next verse which places it in its proper context: 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

The passage states that the prophecies given by the prophet writers are not their own interpretations of their visions, but that they wrote what they were shown. It has nothing to do with the reader's interpretations of the prophecy. I have seen this verse abused in this manner more than any other.

"And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD."

It would be a redundant bit of nonsense to state that all through the week 24/7) and then also all through the month (24/7 or 24/30) that everyone will worship God. What then is the meaning of the words "shall all flesh come"? Would they not already always be there?

To distort the meaning of the times of worship contradicts the "coming" (or in the sense of mankind "going") to worship.

The principle of Occam's Razor applies; "The simplest explanation is most probably the correct one," I see no sense in distorting one or two words of a sentence in order to make a point that is at the expense of other words within the same sentence. Especially when that distorted point of view is not supported by any other Scripture.

Thus I do not call this 24/7 idea as "your private interpretation..." I call it as it is: corruption. Let's see how you work: "shall all flesh come..." into the equation.

[John317]

I have found one commentary to be excellent on a particular passage while seeming to connect disjointed thoughts on another. `

I certainly have to agree with you on that.

[WayneV]

Originally Posted By: WayneV

I will disagree with the assertion that the passage is relevant to Sabbath observance in the new earth. What is it in the wording of the verse that makes you consider it to be implying such Sabbath observance, especially in light of the fact that "there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light" (see Rev. 22:5)?

Agape`

(cont.)

(To) addvantage,

It is not that I was confused, there was simply no reason to suggest, by drawing the distinction, that those inside the city might not be keeping the Sabbath while everyone else in the new earth would be keeping it. Remember, the Revelation verses supplied were only there as support for my observation that Isaiah 66:23 seems to be speaking of a 24/7 type of worship as opposed to a one day per week worship on the Sabbath. Note the words “from” and “to” in the Isaiah passage. The passage does not use the word “on”, as do many other verses referring to worship "on" the Sabbath/Seventh-day. This was the crux of my comments. The verses from Revelation were simply additional support for the lack of an “evening to evening” pattern for a new earth Sabbath; further suggesting a 24/7 worship relationship.

I would be interested in your comments on my Isaiah 66:23 observation. Thanks for your comments.

Agape`

I do not "note the words" (`from and to') to mean a contiguous 24/7 state of worship.

I see many times that a particular phrase is taken in its translated (from Hebrew or Greek to English) form, and by applying a specific emphasis upon the contrived linguistic syntax, that a new and different meaning is applied to it. The most appauling example of this is when speaking of Revelation 14:7 which states that the "hour of His judgment is come" to mean that God is somehow being judged, and then all sorts of supporting argument is brought in saying that in this passage, the "CHARACTER" of God is being judged by the whole universe. This sort of literary corruption is an abomination to God, (and to me.) The Scriptures state in several other places that `God is judged by NO man,' and `ALL judgment is committed to the Son.' Thus the conclusion of those who would like to obliterate the judgment that God holds over man, by turning the judgment upon Him, are obviously corrupting the interpretation of the Scriptures, and not supported by any other verses.

Another example is 2Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

People take this to bash anyone else's interpretation of Scripture that they disagree with, calling it their "private interpretation" in order to discredit them. They omit the next verse which places it in its proper context: 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

The passage states that the prophecies given by the prophet writers are not their own interpretations of their visions, but that they wrote what they were shown. It has nothing to do with the reader's interpretations of the prophecy. I have seen this verse abused in this manner more than any other.

"And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD."

It would be a redundant bit of nonsense to state that all through the week 24/7) and then also all through the month (24/7 or 24/30) that everyone will worship God. What then is the meaning of the words "shall all flesh come"? Would they not already always be there?

To distort the meaning of the times of worship contradicts the "coming" (or in the sense of mankind "going") to worship.

The principle of Occam's Razor applies; "The simplest explanation is most probably the correct one," I see no sense in distorting one or two words of a sentence in order to make a point that is at the expense of other words within the same sentence. Especially when that distorted point of view is not supported by any other Scripture.

Thus I do not call this 24/7 idea as "your private interpretation..." I call it as it is: corruption. Let's see how you work: "shall all flesh come..." into the equation.

Wow! I apologize that I could not understand what you were saying here. However, your last paragraph indicates that our discussion is most likely over, since we are no longer trying to discover the truth in the passage. Thanks for attempting an explanation. Again, I am sorry that I could not grasp the point you were trying to make.

Agape`

[addvantage]

No, I don't think that the discussion of this thread is over.

The original post was leading to a certain conclusion that I haven't seen answered yet. If the Sabbaths and the new moons will be kept after the second coming, do they apply yet even today? Everyone I have seen that has researched every Biblical reference has drawn the conclusion that the new moons, Sabbaths and Feasts are still valid today, and that they are statutes that are still shadows of things yet to come.

"Arguments drawn from the Old Testament types also pointed to the autumn as the time when the event represented by the "cleansing of the sanctuary" must take place. This was made very clear as attention was given to the manner in which the types relating to the first advent of Christ had been fulfilled. {GC 399.1}

You see, God is not finished in His working with the types...

"These types were fulfilled, not only as to the event, but as to the time. On the fourteenth day of the first Jewish month, the very day and month on which for fifteen long centuries the Passover lamb had been slain, Christ, having eaten the Passover with His disciples, instituted that feast which was to commemorate His own death as "the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." That same night He was taken by wicked hands to be crucified and slain. And as the antitype of the wave sheaf our Lord was raised from the dead on the third day, "the first fruits of them that slept," a sample of all the resurrected just, whose "vile body" shall be changed, and "fashioned like unto His glorious body." Verse 20; Philippians 3:21. {GC 399.3}

"In like manner the types which relate to the second advent must be fulfilled at the time pointed out in the symbolic service."

Nowhere does Scripture tell us that the antitypes as the work that God does in the heavenly sanctuary comes to its fulfillment, that the types are no longer applicable to our duty here in earth. They are object lessons that teach us to put away sin (leaven) to study the Law of God (Shavuot/Pentecost) for repentance (days of awe/trumpets) for our atonement, and celebration of God dwelling with us (Tabernacles)

“Well would it be for the people of God at the present time to have a Feast of Tabernacles--a joyous commemoration of the blessings of God to them. As the children of Israel celebrated the deliverance that God had wrought for their fathers, and His miraculous preservation of them during their journeyings from Egypt, so should we gratefully call to mind the various ways He has devised for bringing us out from the world, and from the darkness of error, into the precious light of His grace and truth.” (Patriarchs and Prophets, pp. 540-541)

“The Feast of Tabernacles was not only commemorative but typical (pointing forward). It not only pointed back to the wilderness sojourn, but, as the feast of harvest, it celebrated the ingathering of the fruits of the earth, and pointed forward to the great day of final ingathering, when the Lord of the harvest shall send forth His reapers to gather the tares together in bundles for the fire, and to gather the wheat into His garner. At that time the wicked will all be destroyed.” (Patriarchs and Prophets, p. 541)

“Anciently the Lord instructed His people to assemble three times a year for His worship. To these holy convocations the children of Israel came...if the children of Israel needed the benefit of these holy convocations in their time, how much more do we need them in these last days of peril and conflict! And if the people of the world then needed the light which God had committed to His church, how much more do they need it now!” (Testimonies, Vol. 6, pp. 39-40)

Under the Mosaic system the cleansing of the sanctuary, or the great Day of Atonement, occurred on the tenth day of the seventh Jewish month (Leviticus 16:29-34), when the high priest, having made an atonement for all Israel, and thus removed their sins from the sanctuary, came forth and blessed the people. So it was believed that Christ, our great High Priest, would appear to purify the earth by the destruction of sin and sinners, and to bless His waiting people with immortality. The tenth day of the seventh month, the great Day of Atonement, the time of the cleansing of the sanctuary, which in the year 1844 fell upon the twenty-second of October, was regarded as the time of the Lord's coming. This was in harmony with the proofs already presented that the 2300 days would terminate in the autumn, and the conclusion seemed irresistible. {GC 399.4}

[Pastor_Chick]

No, I don't think that the discussion of this thread is over.

The original post was leading to a certain conclusion that I haven't seen answered yet. If the Sabbaths and the new moons will be kept after the second coming, do they apply yet even today? Everyone I have seen that has researched every Biblical reference has drawn the conclusion that the new moons, Sabbaths and Feasts are still valid today, and that they are statutes that are still shadows of things yet to come.

[...]

The mainline SDA Church seems to hold to the "Puritan position" which misinterprets Col. 2:16, 17:

Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. (NASB)

Generally, it is concluded that "a Sabbath day" here spoken of is NOT the weekly Sabbath.

The following link is an interesting introduction to the research of one esteemed SDA professor, the late Samuele Bacchiocchi, Ph. D.

http://csda-adventistchurch.to/biblical_feasts.html

Professor Bacchiocchi wrote an article in LIBERTY, Sept./Oct., 1991 with his commentary on the Sabbath in Col. 2:16, and I think this link is the same article:

http://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/1985/November/paul-and-the-sabbath

He makes a reasonable case showing that the Sabbath in Col. 2:16 is referring to the weekly Sabbath. This conclusion also sheds new light on the proper relationship of the Christian to the new moon festival and the annual festivals.

[addvantage]

Yes, the Scripture is a double edged sword, and it comes with an instruction manual for how it is used and where and when.

The trouble I see is with those who, Like Pastor McGill has said, had misused Colossian 2. Such Scriptures form an arsenal in the hands of the user for the purpose and intent it was never made for. When this gets shot down, then they run and grab Galatians 4, which is even less suited for the battle, as it is not speaking of God's Holy Days, but of the practice of the heathen's holidays. God did not create beggarly elements.

When these ill suited weapons are found to be unusable, I've seen them run to non-Scriptural sources and claims like: "They all ended at the cross" but are unable to explain Paul's keeping of them nor that Pentecost came 50 days after the cross. etc. etc. and so goes the deceptive arguments while trying to avoid the plethora of Scriptures that stand in defense of and in support of keeping God's Holy Days. I've even seen a few bold attempts at excusing Paul's Feastkeeping as being merely his trying to proselytize more Jews. This however does not explain his attendance in the presence of his Gentile converts.

And so back to the sword, which proves to indeed be a painful thing to those who would misuse it. Many do not even know they've been cut and are bleeding.

[Pastor_Chick]

[...]

And so back to the sword, which proves to indeed be a painful thing to those who would misuse it. Many do not even know they've been cut and are bleeding.

[addvantage]

Wow! I apologize that I could not understand what you were saying here. However, your last paragraph indicates that our discussion is most likely over, since we are no longer trying to discover the truth in the passage. Thanks for attempting an explanation. Again, I am sorry that I could not grasp the point you were trying to make.

Agape`

I do not believe that the search for the truth in any verse consists of linguistic distortion of a few words and changing their syntax to mean something completely off the context of the whole. Had you suggested additional verses of Scripture to support your suggested hypothesis, or had brought in original Hebrew or Greek wording and syntax, I might have considered this differently. If you attempt to apply this type of analysis to every Scripture you read, I would suggest that you should try reading without using any form of analysis.

[Pastor_Chick]

So, do we agree Isa. 66 offers the evidence for Sabbath observance in the new earth? I think many of us have come to that conclusion.

We, as Sabbath-keepers, argue that the seventh-day Sabbath is to be observed now, for it was never abrogated. In line with that, Sabbath was the weekly holy day for the OT believers, and it will be the weekly holy day in heaven and the new earth, consequently, it must be valid for all Christian believers today.

What about the New Moon Festival? To remain consistent in our application of Isa. 66, we would do well to place the same weight on the observance of the new moons, especially since there is no indication that the new moons were abolished.

I recall an Adventist professor by the name of Lesley Harding who wrote about the New Moon Festival. Bro. Harding considered the new moon to be a "miniature day of atonement" in ancient Israel. He further stated it was a special day for women throughout Israel. A thorough Bible study on the new moon observances of the OT can be quite revealing.

Creation Seventh Day Adventists, keeping the New Moon Festival monthly, have found it an invaluable aspect of our sanctification process.

[addvantage]

The most significant thing I understand from the new moons are that they specify when a new month begins, and particularly those months in which Feast days and yearly Sabbaths ocur.

What other significance is there that should be included in observing them?

[Pastor_Chick]

The most significant thing I understand from the new moons are that they specify when a new month begins, and particularly those months in which Feast days and yearly Sabbaths ocur.

What other significance is there that should be included in observing them?

I am not sure if setting forth our full understanding of this topic on the CA forum is the proper venue. You may be aware (or maybe not) that we are sort of the "black sheep" on CA, since we are not under the GC umbrella of sister churches. Some posters stalk me and cause confusion which disrupts the flow of the thread.

It seems you are a free-thinker and student of the writings. What I could suggest is that you search for the "beginnings of months," "new moons," and any other related key words, and look for some spiritual applications. There are even things written by Ellen White that shed some light on new moons.

The basic idea is that the pure church is symbolized by a woman, and the woman has a "spiritual period." Those "mini-days of atonement" are for the cleansing of the camp.

[addvantage]

Yes, the symbolized woman... with "the moon under her feet"

Every nuance, hint or subtle clue on the issue of the Sabbath is in the Scriptures and they are seized upon to support the Sabbath. The same is true for the Feasts; that they are referenced in many places in the Scriptures.

Yes, I have collected an enormous file on this subject, and I am always open to gather more. I have yet to exhaust the resources on this.

And I also have my own black sheep status for my discovery of the chiastic interpretation of Rev Chs 13 and 17. In my research I discover that the "official" interpretation is derived from "Catholic teachings" with variance only in a few items; they modify it to make the papacy the beast, which is the only correct point of SDA interpretation. Email me and I will send you a copy of my book.

[Dr. Rich]

Yes, the symbolized woman... with "the moon under her feet"

Every nuance, hint or subtle clue on the issue of the Sabbath is in the Scriptures and they are seized upon to support the Sabbath. The same is true for the Feasts; that they are referenced in many places in the Scriptures.

Yes, I have collected an enormous file on this subject, and I am always open to gather more. I have yet to exhaust the resources on this.

And I also have my own black sheep status for my discovery of the chiastic interpretation of Rev Chs 13 and 17. In my research I discover that the "official" interpretation is derived from "Catholic teachings" with variance only in a few items; they modify it to make the papacy the beast, which is the only correct point of SDA interpretation. Email me and I will send you a copy of my book.

The woman of Rev. 12 is the Holy Spirit. The 'moon' represents the Kingdom of Heaven on earth that reflects the light (glory) of God when God's glory isn't to be found.

This woman could not be the church because the church was not around when Jesus was born and can't give birth to itself anyway. Neither was the church ever in heaven. And besides, Jesus is coming back for his bride, not to marry His Mother! Why people ever thought the woman was the church is beyound me! It is a stupid and silly thing to believe that!

It also was not Mary because Mary was never in heaven and also is not around to give birth to those found in Rev. 12:17. The ONLY woman this can be is the Holy Spirit who gave birth to Jesus and will give birth to those who become sactified as found in Rev. 12:17.

[Gustave]

The most significant thing I understand from the new moons are that they specify when a new month begins....

And the days of that month incept their actual count....

...Effecting WHEN the 7th day hits within that month.