Will Enemies be in Heaven??

[Dr. Rich]

I am trying to sell you something! Truth! Them being the words of Jesus Christ and Him only! But it is NOT for sale, as it is only offered to those who seek it.

[JawgeFromJawja]

I am trying to sell you something! Truth! Them being the words of Jesus Christ and Him only! But it is NOT for sale, as it is only offered to those who seek it.

Those who seek it? Wrong, verified Biblically. God seeks us.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Oh, yes. Few are they who find that gate on their own. But without qualifications found elsewhere in The Bible itself, this passage directly contradicts other, very positive passages. Jesus is not negative. The Gospel of Matthew had a limited meaning directed towards a particular audience, an insular group of Jewish Christians of the first century.

So look at John 12:32 (KJV) - And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Even though I am just a Jawja Bulldawg, I understand that word all. All means the totality of a group, and unless qualified, is not in any way exclusive.

This ole Baptist is gonna point that out over and over, until you, you all, y’all, all youse guys, understand it. Jesus actively draws ALL toward the Way, Jesus Himself being THE WAY.

However, there are those who take an exclusive attitude regarding salvation, those who resent the generosity of God and His Grace. Pity. Unconditional means just that, no qualifications. Were there to be qualifications, God’s love would not be unconditional.

Again and again, this crotchety ole man will tell you, read the whole Bible, cover to cover, cover to cover, cover to cover, cover to cover, cover to cover, cover to cover, cover to cover, cover to cover, repeatedly and repeatedly, until you depart this life.

Isaiah 45:22-23 (KJV)- Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in

righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee

shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Obviously, a soul who about to be hurled into “the lake of fire” would not bow the knee or swear to God.

You who think you are so special need to read, actually READ, God’s word. The generous promise of salvation needs to be shown to all Christians, be they Catholic or any flavor of Protestant. If you think you belong to a small, exclusive group favored by God, then you do not know God and the Character of God.

1 Corinthians 15:22 (KJV) - For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

No qualifications. Just an unqualified “all”.

Those who are grieved by this passage, 1 Corinthians 15:22, should be ashamed. They do not yet have or understand the love of God. What part of the word “all” do they not understand?

Jas 3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

Jas 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.

Jas 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

Jas 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

Jas 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

Full of mercy, without partiality? Do you reckon that God would save only an exclusive few if He is “full of mercy”? Not likely.

Luke 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Jesus Himself told us He does not sit by passively and watch us fail to find that narrow gate and strait way. He actively seeks us and draws us to the way. And Jesus is that way.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1 Corinthians 15:22 (KJV) - For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Wonderful words. And the Bible itself tells us that those words are not directed to an exclusive few.

In Christ, Who is The Way, and Who draws us to that Way

JawgeFromJawja

[JawgeFromJawja]

Originally Posted By: Lysimachus

I think Jesus meant just what He said in Matthew 24 that the last days would be congruous with the days of Noah. And in the days of Noah, only a handful were saved. Matthew 7:14 clearly says that "few" will find the gate to eternal life.

BUT, the "Multitude which no one could count" who IS the bride as found in Rev. 7:9, is also a symbol for the real amount of these people. The real reason why NO ONE COULD COUNT (even though Jesus does know how many right now and did at the time He gave this to John), is because Jesus didn't want US to know, so that we all have a chance to be among this number without thinking it is too small or large as Jawge mistakenly believes.

There are three groups that make it to heaven,(not counting the 24 elders). The Priests which are the first fruits who are the bondservants that get the food from the ONE person found in Matt. 24:45, and the 5 wise brides maids who listen to the 144k and repent and follow after the words of Jesus ONLY. Then the 'bride' who become righteous because of the deeds of the 144k and 5 wise. The 144k and the 5 wise are sealed by God before the time of trouble. The Bride becomes sealed prior to the start of the 38th' month (New moon). After that it is impossible for anyone else to become saved which lasts for another 5 months when the plagues are poured out upon those who take the Mark of the Beast. It is just that simple!

And NO, there will NOT be anyone in heaven who is one of your enemies! So Paul and EGW will not be found in heaven.

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Here the allusion to the days of Noah ends.

It is regrettable trait that those who claim special wisdom in interpreting scripture tend to over read Scripture - to read into Scripture doctrines and prophecies that are just not in the passage of reference. A proper reading of Matthew 24: 37 - 39 shows that Jesus was obviously speaking of the people of Noah's time carrying on business as usual, and that no one knew the time of the flood, therefore of the coming of the Son of man. Those two premises and nothing more. There is no allusion in Matthew 24: 37 - 39 even remotely suggesting that only a few are destined for salvation. If it pleases you to be displeased with God's will for salvation of uncountable souls to be saved, okay. You will answer to God for that petty grief. It won't keep you from Heaven, but are you going to squirm!

As for "uncountable souls" meaning that Jesus simply did not want us to know the number to be saved, you grossly over read that passage. To make your interpretation that Jesus simply wanted to keep us in the dark does not jibe with "many" other passages of The Bible.

God bless you in your errors,

JawgeFromJawja

[Dr. Rich]

Jawge, do you believe that people that are sinful are going to go to heaven? Or do you believe that one must first overcome sin and become righteous to be saved?

[JawgeFromJawja]

Jawge, do you believe that people that are sinful are going to go to heaven? Or do you believe that one must first overcome sin and become righteous to be saved?

Willfully sinful people will not be in heaven. But yes, sinful people, even as sinful as you are, will be in Heaven. The Bible clearly says, explicitly says, if we say we are not sinful, we are liars.

You, my dear sir, have not overcome sin. At best you are a decent person who strives to overcome sin.

A Baptist sinner, saved by God's Grace,

through Jesus Christ,

Jawge

[Dr. Rich]

So I take it you also believe that the Holy Spirit will dwell with someone who is sinning? If you could, please show me where Jesus said that a sinner will be saved? I have looked and can't find it.

Sure, many other people may have said that, but why believe them when we have the words of Jesus to check all of this out by?

And Jawage, what makes you think that I am now a sinner? Interestingly, I was just on a phone conference with many of my clients and was told by some of them that I was the only one that they have ever found that walks the walk and talks the talk--with complete honesty. Yes, it was nice to hear, but I myself even doubt that as I know myself and have some serious faults.

[JawgeFromJawja]

So I take it you also believe that the Holy Spirit will dwell with someone who is sinning? If you could, please show me where Jesus said that a sinner will be saved? I have looked and can't find it.

Sure, many other people may have said that, but why believe them when we have the words of Jesus to check all of this out by?

And Jawage, what makes you think that I am now a sinner? Interestingly, I was just on a phone conference with many of my clients and was told by some of them that I was the only one that they have ever found that walks the walk and talks the talk--with complete honesty. Yes, it was nice to hear, but I myself even doubt that as I know myself and have some serious faults.

It does not matter what I think ("what makes you think that I am now a sinner?") Except for goodwill in your practice, it matters not what your clients think about you state of sin. As a matter of fact, I hesitate to answer your question for fear of being judgmental. The answer to your question is The Bible says plainly that we all sin. No exceptions. That condemnation suffuses the entire Bible, Old and New Covenants. I shall give you references to Paul's teachings about sin being a universal malady because of your professed enmity with that Saint. No need to reference more than two from the Old Testament. Should you want more, look them up.

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Ecc 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

So yes, the Holy Spirit dwells with sinners. We all sin, and the Holy Spirit is certainly with us who are Christians, all of whom sin according to the Bible.

[Dr. Rich]

That was not the question Jawge, please read my question again. It matters not what others say, it only matters what Jesus said!

By the way, there is no argument that ALL mankind have sinned. It is what you do with that sin that counts. Jesus said to repent and sin no more--period! Simple and easy! Right? Don't you believe in what Jesus said?

There is absolutly no reason to go on sinning once you repent and sin no more!

[JawgeFromJawja]

That was not the question Jawge, please read my question again. It matters not what others say, it only matters what Jesus said!

By the way, there is no argument that ALL mankind have sinned. It is what you do with that sin that counts. Jesus said to repent and sin no more--period! Simple and easy! Right? Don't you believe in what Jesus said?

There is absolutly no reason to go on sinning once you repent and sin no more!

You may have asked a question with no verifiable answer. I do not recall a saying by Jesus that there are those who do not sin.

But it does matter to you what others say. You are the one who posted in public your clients'opinion that you " --- walks the walk and talks the talk - with complete honesty."

He did say of one of his disciples that he was one in whom there was no guile, meaning duplicity, but not meaning all kinds of sin. However, Jesus did believe and quote Scripture. Not all that Jesus did, and presumably said, was recorded, but he may or may not have spoken on subjects not written in the Gospels:

Joh 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

Jesus did refer to Jewish Scripture in his ministry. Are you going to tell us that Jesus did not believe this verse?

Again, Ecclesiastes 7: 20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Please show us where Jesus contradicted The Bible by saying some do not sin.

If you do indeed believe in the absurdity that there are those who do not sin, then no wonder you believe that few will achieve paradise. And no wonder you condemn Paul and take him for an enemy!

God bless you,

JawgeFromJawja