The Spirit of Prophecy and the Modern Gift of Prophets

[Lysimachus]

Since there are a number of individuals in this forum who believe that the gift of prophecy ceased with Christ, or the Book of Revelation, and that no more prophets would be given after the time of John, I will share an article I wrote a few months back that will help to shed light on this issue.

The Spirit of Prophecy and the Modern Gift of Prophets

by Lysimachus

In this article, I will contend with the notion that the gift of prophecy or giving of prophets has ceased with the Son of God or the prophet John.

A common text often used in favor of the argument for the cessation of prophets is found in the first chapter of Hebrews:

"In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe." (Hebrews 1:1,2)

However, when the critics who are opposed to the modern gift of prophecy or prophets allude to this text, they are forgetting that this was written in the time of Paul before the giving of the Revelation to John about the year 95 A.D. So God obviously spoke through a prophet after this was written. It was the Son of God that spoke directly to John. So we have to be very careful in how we interpret this passage.

This text does not say: "In the past God spoke [only] to our forefathers through the prophets at many times in various ways, but in these last days he [only] speaks to us by his Son [and will therefore send no more prophets]...". This is an unwarrantable application being induced into the text. Paul (who I believe is most likely the author of Hebrews) is stating a historical fact, that the Son of God had not yet come, so the messages received came through the prophets. But are we going to extract from this statement that God's Son does not reveal Himself through the prophets in spirit? All we have to do is look at the book of Revelation, which is the "Revelation of Jesus Christ" (by His Son), and written down by who? By John, a prophet!

Prior to God's Son, God could only speak through the prophets, and not the Son--as the Son of God had not come to speak to us as of yet. All they could do is faintly look forward to their promised Redeemer. But now God speaks to us through His Son, and God can still reveal those messages that are spoken by His Son through prophets who have the inspired prophetic gift. Paul could now make this statement because the Son of God had come to the earth!

We have plenty of scriptural evidence to support this:

Ephesians 4:8-16 --

• 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

  4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

  4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

  4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

  4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

  4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

  4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

  4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

  4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Let us raise the questions:

1. Does God say He gives gifts to men? Yes he does.

2. Does God say He gave prophets for the Church as one of those gifts? Yes he does.

3. Why does God give Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, and Teachers? For the perfecting of the saints and for the edifying of the Church, the body of Christ!

4. Till how long will these gifts be needed? Till we ALL come into the unity of the faith.

5. Have ALL the saints come into the unity of the faith? No, and when they do, Jesus will come to claim them as His own, as they will be ready to meet the Bridegroom.

6. What are these gifts given for? That we from that point forth do not be tossed to and fro and carried with every wind of doctrine, and by men trying to deceive us.

If there was ever a time more needed for the gift of prophecy, it is in these last days---it is needed to hold the Church together. Amidst hundreds of thousands of preachers teaching contrary doctrines to one another, and all interpreting the Bible differently, it takes the GIFT OF PROPHECY to hold the Church together on doctrine, and to not be carried away by all kinds of different teachings. It helps keep the Church fitly framed together, so that they might work as one strong cohesive unit.

But we have more:

• "To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues" (1 Cor 12:10)

  "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues." (1 Cor 12:28 )

But we have more:

• 1 Cor 1:4-8 -

  1:4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;

  1:5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;

  1:6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:

  1:7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

  1:8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Question 1: What is God's promise? That we come behind in NO GIFT (including the gift of prophecy given through prophets)

Question 2: For how long will these gifts be given to the Church? Unto the END!

Question 3: For what are these gifts given for (which includes the gift of prophecy)? That we may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

But we still have more:

Revelation 12:17 says concerning God's end-time Church:

• "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." (Revelation 12:17)

Question: What is the testimony of Jesus Christ?

Answer:

• "And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." (Revelation 19:10)

We are also told in Joel 2:28,29 and Acts 2:14-21 that the spirit of prophecy would be manifested amongst God's people in the last days.

It has been argued by some that "throughout the New Testament we find a pattern of the 'testimony of Jesus' referring to the believer's personal witness about Jesus Christ" and therefore it doesn't belong to any one person, but to all who hold true to the gospel message and have received his Spirit".

However, such individuals are failing to remember that the phrase "the testimony of Jesus" is only mentioned 5 times in the New Testament. The first time is in 1 Corinthians 1:6 as "the testimony of Christ" where it is speaking in context of coming behind in "no gift" (vs 7). Chapter 12, verses 10 and 28 speak of such a gift of prophecy and the giving of prophets. The next 4 times are mentioned in Revelation, and the first 2 of those 4 are in context of John "baring record" of what he saw in his visions (Rev 1:2,9). The last 2 put this it in context of a gift to the church (12:17; 19:10).

So when people argue that "throughout the New Testament we find a pattern that the testimony of Jesus is referring to just the personal believers personal witness about Jesus", such individuals are trying to make their audience think that this phrase is scattered all throughout the New Testament. Not so. It is mentioned 4 times in John's Revelation, and 1 time in 1 Cor 1:6 in the context of the giving of gifts, which includes prophets.

An interesting allusion to "prophets" is made by the Lord concerning John's brethren:

• "Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God." (Revelation 22:9)

This seems to indicate that prophets will be very much part of the equation in the future, because the ones who keep the sayings of this book are those who have read it, which is future from John's day.

Jesus says in Matthew 7:15: "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." Jesus also brings this up in Matthew 24:11, 24; Mark 13:22; and Peter also brings this up in 2 Peter 2:1, and John brings it up in 1 John 4:1.

If Jesus and the Disciples said to beware of "false prophets", obviously there would be TRUE PROPHETS. Otherwise, if all future prophets would be false, then the warning would be to "beware of prophets" in general.

Did you catch that? Let it sink in.

Thus we have the admonition from Paul:

• 1 Thess 5:19-21 - "Quench not the Spirit. Despise not prophesyings. Prove [test] all things; hold fast that which is good."

Paul commands us to test the spirits. When someone claims to have the gift of prophecy, we are to follow some well defined formulas given in the Bible, and test them.

Since there are so many false prophets going out in the world today, we tend to shy away from even imagining that there might be a true prophet amongst us. But we are commanded by Paul to test all things. Not by our own formulas and methods, but by the formulas and rules defined IN the Bible for us. And these rules are very plainly laid out. [but that's another study for another time!]

I hope this study helps us to see that the "gift of prophecy", and "prophets" are still truly a gift that is given for the last days.

In closing, it is the Scriptures alone that give authority to the true gift of Prophecy. Therefore, all things must be tested on the Scriptures alone. The gift of prophecy is free to provide additional light and insight upon the scriptures so long as it does not contradict or negate what is already written. The true gift of prophecy can only AMPLIFY or illuminate what has already been written. And details can be given only so long as it does not add to the Word of God, or erase.

My prayer is that the reader will take seriously the arguments presented here. It is dangerous to make a flat out statement and say that God will no longer send the gift of prophets to the Church. One thing is for sure, a true prophet will be most difficult to spot, and that is why Satan creates so many false ones...to cloud out the true so we cannot discern them very well.

But God's true, and wise people WILL discern the true from the false.

Amen.

~Lysimachus

[Dr. Rich]

Using words of anyone who never knew Jesus Christ can never settle an argument. One must only use the words of Jesus Christ given to us by His eyewitnesses to prove this issue one way or the other.

Personally, I find it sad that so many people have relied upon hearsay testimony for their salvation.

[Lysimachus]

Using words of anyone who never knew Jesus Christ can never settle an argument. One must only use the words of Jesus Christ given to us by His eyewitnesses to prove this issue one way or the other.

Personally, I find it sad that so many people have relied upon hearsay testimony for their salvation.

I wholeheartedly concur. This is why the gift of prophecy is for the edification of believers, and the Church, not unbelievers (1 Cor 14:22)

All things must be tested upon the Scriptures alone. However, as we have seen, it is the authority of Scripture that authenticates the gift of prophecy and the giving of prophets. And so long as the words of such a prophet are according to the law and to the testimony, and meet all the tests of a prophet, as believers we are safe, as well as obliged, based on Biblical grounds, to take seriously the messages they have been burdened to give us.

[John317]

Dr. Rich means you shouldn't use any of Paul's books, Luke's books, the Gospel of Mark, Hebrews, James, 1 and 2 Peter, or Jude. That's all. Beyond that, the New Testament is all good.

[Lysimachus]

Dr. Rich means you shouldn't use any of Paul's books, Luke's books, the Gospel of Mark, Hebrews, James, 1 and 2 Peter, or Jude. That's all. Beyond that, the New Testament is all good.

Oh I see, my bad then! Wow, very interesting.

[Dr. Rich]

Originally Posted By: John317

Dr. Rich means you shouldn't use any of Paul's books, Luke's books, the Gospel of Mark, Hebrews, James, 1 and 2 Peter, or Jude. That's all. Beyond that, the New Testament is all good.

Oh I see, my bad then! Wow, very interesting.

What John317 stated is not the whole truth. Please note that the prophecy Jesus gave us with the Wheat and the Tares in Matt. 13 is something not to joke about. Jesus was dead serious about this and we should be too.

Before Jesus said this, He told those who HEAR His words are to ACT upon those words. This is compaired to building your house on the rock foundation. (See Matt. 7:24-27) This too is deadly serious.

Can you, or for that matter, ANYONE out there, tell me what the wheat and tares is all about and who are the wheat right now and who are the tares right now? Huh? Remember, Jesus said that ONLY the servants for the one who sowed the Wheat will be the ones to discover the difference, and then ONLY at the time just before harvest.

If you can't tell the difference and be able to explain it, then perhaps you are not one of the servants of the one who sowed the Wheat.

You see, Jesus NEVER said that the world needed another true prophet other than His own disciples/apostles who were with Him during His ministry here on this earth. However, Jesus did warn us of false apostles and false prophets that will say they are of Christ, (sent by Jesus Christ) but are actually very good con men/women who will deceive many. Have you been deceived? How do you know if you have been deceived or not? Huh?

God allowed Satan into the Garden on Eden and He also allowed Satan to sow his words in the bible/New Testiment for the same reason--to give each of us a choice to obey His words, or the words of someone who SAY they are of Christ, but are not! This too is a serioius issue and not one to joke about. Saying that the whole bible IS the word of God or the inspired word of God and any part of it isn't, may be blamphemy against the Holy Spirit, a sin that will not be foregiven. This is darn-tootin' deadly to the soul.

[ClubV12]

It really is helpful to know where folks are coming from around here, like Dr. Rich and others as well.

It saves me a lot of reading... :)

[Ambassador]

It really is helpful to know where folks are coming from around here, like Dr. Rich and others as well.

It saves me a lot of reading...

THIS I can wholly agree with.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

Using words of anyone who never knew Jesus Christ can never settle an argument. One must only use the words of Jesus Christ given to us by His eyewitnesses to prove this issue one way or the other.

Personally, I find it sad that so many people have relied upon hearsay testimony for their salvation.

I wholeheartedly concur. This is why the gift of prophecy is for the edification of believers, and the Church, not unbelievers (1 Cor 14:22)

All things must be tested upon the Scriptures alone. However, as we have seen, it is the authority of Scripture that authenticates the gift of prophecy and the giving of prophets. And so long as the words of such a prophet are according to the law and to the testimony, and meet all the tests of a prophet, as believers we are safe, as well as obliged, based on Biblical grounds, to take seriously the messages they have been burdened to give us.

Since you believe this, how do you account for Naaman and Elijah and Jonah and Ninevah?

Both these Prophets were clearly for the edification of "heathens" that is those not in the Church!

Once again Lysimachus you make broad sweeping SDA propaganda statements that are not part of what the Bible actually says.

This is at minimum sloppy work!

[John317]

...Since you believe this, how do you account for Naaman and Elijah and Jonah and Ninevah?

Both these Prophets were clearly for the edification of "heathens" that is those not in the Church!

There was also Balaam, of course.

It's good you point these prophets out because they remind us and assure us that God loves Gentiles like us.

Lysimachus is right, though; he just neglected to use the qualifiers, "generally," "primarily." Ellen White was raised up to give messages of God for the Remnant church, but she did write a couple of books for the world at large. Similarly, God has used most of the biblical prophets to speak to Israel and the church, but not without some notable exceptions.

You can be sure Lysimachus is fully aware of those prophets.

[John317]

Ain't that the truth, tho'!

[Lysimachus]

What John317 said....

Thanks John317.

I was meaning "generally", because Paul seems to place the emphasis of these "gifts" for the edification of the Church, and not unbelievers. The only gift that he emphasized for unbelievers was the gift of tongues--that being, so one could communicate in the language they understood when presenting the gospel.

[theCircle]

It is absolutely important that the saint of God be sanctified by the TRUTH, the word of God. In this day and age, there is no reasonable excuse for ignorance; the Bible is everywhere, even in the hand. But is it in the mind?

The time taken to read extraneous material would be better spent in eating the original bread of life. But because many do not have the fountain within them, they fall for those who hawk in the market place, all kinds of bottled water with shiny, pleasing and reassuring labels.

Our generation has indeed furnished the fulfillment of the word of Jesus Christ, "Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many." (Mat. 24:4-5)

[Lysimachus]

It is absolutely important that the saint of God be sanctified by the TRUTH, the word of God. In this day and age, there is no reasonable excuse for ignorance; the Bible is everywhere, even in the hand. But is it in the mind?

The time taken to read extraneous material would be better spent in eating the original bread of life. But because many do not have the fountain within them, they fall for those who hawk in the market place, all kinds of bottled water with shiny, pleasing and reassuring labels.

Our generation has indeed furnished the fulfillment of the word of Jesus Christ, "Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many." (Mat. 24:4-5)

100% agreed theCircle, and well said. However, I will add a little qualifier to what you said:

Concerning the prophecies themselves (which is about 30% of the Bible), I believe it is very dangerous to study these prophecies without having a competent knowledge of history. One of the number one reasons why prophecy teachers around the globe come to erroneous theories and fanciful conclusions concerning the future is because they have not studied the old dusty books of history that testify of those events which brought fulfillment to those living Words.

How can one know whether prophecy is being fulfilled or was fulfilled if they do not know their history? And by history, I mean history in how God' hand has played a role in it. John Nelson Darby, who completely dismissed the Historicist perceptions, admitted that he did not have a care in the world for history, nor did he need to study it in order to understand the prophecies.

Hence we see why he came to so many erroneous conclusions of Prophetic Scripture: Because he refused to study history to see if maybe the prophecies were finding fulfillment. When one disqualifies studying other historical works and expositions by great men who have labored hard and sweated hard to crack the prophetic codes of historical value, they are bound to make major, and I mean major theological as well as eschatological shipwreck.

[cheddar]

OMG - just listening to you makes me ill! You're like a pharisee on steroids with your historical understanding and 'holier than thou' attitude. No one is diputing the fact that history is important, the problem is that the historical understanding doesn't provide answers to Daniel and Revelation and by saying that it doesn't make me a Catholic or a Jesuit. People like you just try to scare people into submission.

Why don't you explain these historical problems:

- the 3 versions of the abomination of desolation

- the I don't know how many versions of Matt. 24

- the 7 trumpets of Revelation being in the past - and if you say they're not in the past you're going against what Ellen White said and we wouldn't want that.

Jesus Christ brought the most profound spiritual truths down to a level that even the common sinner could understand. He never spoke like you - trying to parade your knowledge and speak over everyone's head. I would say that you speak more like a Catholic or a Jesuit than anyone on this board.

[Lysimachus]

OMG - just listening to you makes me ill! You're like a pharisee on steroids with your historical understanding and 'holier than thou' attitude. No one is diputing the fact that history is important, the problem is that the historical understanding doesn't provide answers to Daniel and Revelation and by saying that it doesn't make me a Catholic or a Jesuit. People like you just try to scare people into submission.

Why don't you explain these historical problems:

- the 3 versions of the abomination of desolation

- the I don't know how many versions of Matt. 24

- the 7 trumpets of Revelation being in the past - and if you say they're not in the past you're going against what Ellen White said and we wouldn't want that.

Jesus Christ brought the most profound spiritual truths down to a level that even the common sinner could understand. He never spoke like you - trying to parade your knowledge and speak over everyone's head. I would say that you speak more like a Catholic or a Jesuit than anyone on this board.

Okay, I'm feeling a bit hurt by this comment. I'm just trying to help, and I'm sorry if I have come across "holier than thou". That is not my intent at all. I'm just trying to shake up people to start studying history more instead of putting it all into the future like the futurists do.

I just have a burning desire to do what is right, and I'm just trying to equip Adventists with the necessary tools to vindicate their faith, so that we can rightly give an answer for the hope that is within us when people ask. I am in no way trying to "parade my knowledge". You have no idea my story and how I came to where I am at now. I was someone who used to be obsessed with computer games, and had no care in the world for Bible or studying. The Lord shook me to my senses when I broke my leg and almost lost it back in 2004, and since then I have dedicated my life to studying the Bible like never before, and researching, and not only strengthening my faith, but also sharing the knowledge I have acquired with others so that others too can be prepared to meet up with the great onslaught that is coming against our beliefs. I even gave up my computer games, and spend a lot of time helping people with their spiritual struggles in life.

I am not in any way trying to scare people into submission. You are judging my motives, and know nothing about me. If you were to meet me in person, I'm confident you'd realize that is not the case. If I come across that way to you, I am sorry. I just have a burning desire and passion to tell the world about the truth, that is all. I am not perfect in how I present it, but I am learning.

[Dr. Rich]

"HISTORY": his story. Usually, the one who wrote HIS side of the story is the one who wanted people to believe like his does. Problem is, (as an educated hostory nut), I have found that there are two, if not more, sides to the real 'story'.

Investigating history correctly takes on a completely different attitude than simply taking one story and saying, that is the way it is. Jesus' words are actually very simple to understand IF one is tuned to the truth He presents. Same goes for the understanding of prophecy. Attempting to force a piece of the puzzel into a spot just because someone said it went there, is like a child attempting to put a jig saw puzzel together. An adult (one more learned) would step back and know by looking at the whole picture, that the piece would not fit. (Get the picture?) (and pun)

Thinking about all of this (my own thinking here), I am wondering IF it was hard for EGW to change her view and opinion when others corrected her, because she had written her opinion down and did not want it to be said that she was ever wrong? I say this because I see it in other author's work, such as Joseph Smith's and Tim LaHay.

[John317]

Excellent points, Circle. That's one of the main reasons it's essential that people study and know their Bibles for themselves. But even that isn't really enough, if we don't also have the Holy Spirit guiding us. There are many people who seem to know the Bible, yet are teaching error. Both the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy make it clear that the only way to distinguish between truth and error is by the teaching of the Holy Spirit.

[Lysimachus]

Let's put it this way:

Had none of the historical records confirmed anything that was written in the Bible, you can bet there would be little to no believers in this Inspired Book.

So we owe a lot more to historians who recorded down events than we think we do.

We would have never, for example, discovered 457 B.C. had it not been for a scribe writing down on a Papyrus the years the kings reigned.

[John317]

... John Nelson Darby, who completely dismissed the Historicist perceptions, admitted that he did not have a care in the world for history, nor did he need to study it in order to understand the prophecies.

Hence we see why he came to so many erroneous conclusions of Prophetic Scripture: Because he refused to study history to see if maybe the prophecies were finding fulfillment.

How foolish of John Darby. He was one of the men who influenced the people who believe in the Rapture theory.

I have his Bible translation, which is a pretty good one, but he was definitely in error when it comes to understanding prophecy, and for the very reasons you describe: he didn't know the history of how God has been leading.

[John317]

... No one is diputing the fact that history is important, the problem is that the historical understanding doesn't provide answers to Daniel and Revelation and by saying that it doesn't make me a Catholic or a Jesuit.

You're wrong about history not providing answers to D & R.

Are you claiming that one can understand Daniel 2 without a knowledge of history? Or that one can understand Daniel 9 and the 70 week prophecy without a knowlege of history?

If so, please explain those chapters without referring to history.

Originally Posted By: cheddar

People like you just try to scare people into submission.

It is best on the Forum not to judge people's intentions or motives.

[John317]

Had none of the historical records confirmed anything that was written in the Bible, you can bet there would be little to no believers in this Inspired Book.

You're certainly right there. It would then be rightly considered as fiction along with the Greek and Roman myths. I would still read it for its beauty of language and its interesting stories, but I wouldn't believe it any more than I do the myths of ancient history.

[John317]

.. He never spoke like you - trying to parade your knowledge and speak over everyone's head.

This is really uncalled for. You have no idea if Lysimachus is trying to "parade his knowledge and speak over everyone's head."

Again, that's a judgment on his motives, & nobody has any idea what his or your motives are.

Are members supposed to hide their knoweldge?

I don't understand why anyone would suggest that the less a person knows, or the less they express their knowledge, the better.

[John317]

... You're like a pharisee on steroids with your historical understanding and 'holier than thou' attitude.

I'm not getting that from Lysimachus' posts. You might be reading something into his posts that isn't there. It often happens.

It's best on the Forum to take people's words at face value and assume that they are sincere and honest. Otherwise the Forum becomes a place where people are constantly trying to judge everyone's motives, and of course none of us can do that. Remember that people could judge your motives, too, and no one likes to have his motives judged.

[John317]

... I was someone who used to be obsessed with computer games, and had no care in the world for Bible or studying. The Lord shook me to my senses when I broke my leg and almost lost it back in 2004, and since then I have dedicated my life to studying the Bible like never before, and researching, and not only strengthening my faith, but also sharing the knowledge I have acquired with others so that others too can be prepared to meet up with the great onslaught that is coming against our beliefs. I even gave up my computer games, and spend a lot of time helping people with their spiritual struggles in life.

That's a wonderful testimony, Lysimachus. I for one am really thankful to God for how he brought you to where you are today. You are one of those brands plucked from the fire that the Bible talks about.

I pray that God will be with you so you will continue your good work. I know that many others on the Forum feel the same way. Never give up!