Questions?

[Truth Files]

Questions from a former SDA member:

Why was there no SDA religion before 1844?

Why was there no teaching of the "investigative judgment" before 1844?

Why isn't this doctrine found in the Word of God?

Why do SDAs only recognize Ellen G. White as a prophetess?

According to the Bible, "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son"

According to the Lord's Word, there are no prophets today, nor have there been since the book of Revelation was completed in A.D. 96 and thereby completing the Bible [Revelation 22:18-19]

The Word of God is our final and only authority! Jesus never told us to look for another messenger or prophet. If what SDAs teach is true concerning Ellen G. White, then surely the Word of God would have foretold of the coming of such a great prophetess, who would reveal new doctrines.

To the contrary, the Bible says nothing of the such. It is utterly disturbing that the entire SDA religion was formed out of a major embarrassment, when William Miller set a date for Christ to return, and then Christ did not return. And why did all of those Millerites descent, suddenly starting a whole different religion? The entire matter is disturbing to say the least.

If what SDAs teach is true, then what about all of the believers who died between the cross of Christ, and the beginning of the investigative judgment of 1844? If Christ needed to complete His work of redemption, then why did He wait until 1844?

And here's something to really consider, the year 1844 wasn't set by Ellen G. White, it was set by Miller. If Ellen G. White was such an inspired prophetess, why didn't God give her the revelation of the year 1844?

Why would God give it to Miller? The SDA religion was formed by a group of sinfully proud people who could not accept the fact that they had been hoodwinked by a misguided Miller. One is never to set a date for the Lord's return.

The Bible plainly teaches that no one can know the time. The foolish people in 1844, who followed a man, instead of God's Word, were horribly vexed when Miller's prophecy failed to come true. Think about it .... these people had sold their homes, quit there jobs, and given away all earthly possessions.

How does the SDA member account for and answer these questions today?

[John317]

You are evidently a former member of the SDA church. So you've been exposed to the truth and probably believed it at one time. But you rejected it and fell away and have been sent here to try and get other people to fall away. Many are sent for the same purpose. I'm glad you come here. This is where you belong.

Most of your questions show that you don't understand SDA beliefs. They contain half truths, misgtaken assumptions, and misinformation. If you take the time to study some good books on what SDAs believe, virtually all of your questions will be answered. It seems to me that the reason you fell away was that you didn't understand the teachings of the Bible.

I don't mind answering your questions, but a person can spend the rest of eternity answering questions by people who would be able to find their own answers if they would only do some serious studying.

[Truth Files]

Answer the questions John317

.... and I am not and never have been associated with the SDA

But I have convinced many to move away from the organization which I consider to be a large professing christian cult second only in size to the Papal cult of the RCC

[John317]

You claim at the top of your post that they are questions of a former member. You leave people with the impression that the questions are yours. Are they someone else's questions? If so, who is the person who is asking them?

I will not be a party to efforts on this forum of people who come here with the purpose of persuading others to leave the SDA church.If I did that, I would be working at cross-purposes against everything I believe in and am doing. It would be worse than a waste of my time.

[Truth Files]

I Just told you the questions are from another

It does not make any difference where the questions came from

.... since you responded and are an SDA you should willing and able to answer

[John317]

As I just said:

I will not be a party to efforts on this forum of people who come here with the purpose of persuading others to leave the SDA church.If I did that, I would be working at cross-purposes against everything I believe in and am doing. It would be worse than a waste of my time.

You're the same person who yesterday made accusations against Ellen White and then could not (or at least did not) show any valid support for what you claimed to be true.

That is what I mean by a waste of my time.

The Forum does not exist to be a place where people like yourself come to slap the SDA church and its people around without being called to account for their false accusations and allegations. How long do you think you'd last if you went to a Mormon or a JW or a RCC forum with the same intentions and program? Not long, right?

You must think we're either naive or pretty stupid. I'm neither.

[ClubV12]

With all the web sites available to deal with this kind of stuff, why does it have to be here also?

SPAM!!! Just more SPAM. Go play in your own web sand box TruthFiles, your just hoggin' the place up around here with your constant barrage of SPAM.

[Musicman1228]

The answer to all of these very good and appropriate questions is one word - prophecy.

1. The SDA church did not appear until AFTER 1844 because the 2300 evenings and mornings PROPHECY did not end until 1843 CE.

2. Concerning the supposed IJ - see above.

3. Ref. Matt. 24:4, 5, and 11. A PROPHECY of Jesus.

4. Ref. Rev. 2: 19-24. A PROPHECY in Revelation, again by Jesus.

5. EXACTLY. The words of Jesus Christ and His teachings as given to His eyewitness disciples and in His own prophecies and those of Daniel and Revelation are sufficient for understanding the truth-we need NO ONE else (and I mean NO ONE).

6. AMEN and AMEN. Again this is in prophecy.

7. The actual WORDS OF GOD as exemplified by Jesus Christ in the NT and God Almighty in the OT are all we need, as explained in #5. If you mean that the Bible is the Word of God then I would have to, respectfully, disagree. That is because in the NT there are writers who are not representing Jesus Christ, but are representing their idea as to who Jesus Christ is. Again this is found in PROPHECY - ref. Rev. 2:2-7, and in the prophecy of Jesus in Matt. 13:24-30.

Jesus did not prophecy that there would be any TRUE prophets at the end of time, He only said there would be FALSE prophets, therefore any prophet that tries to establish themselves at the end of time is automatically a false prophet. One of the reasons I know that the SDA church is the Kingdom of Heaven as spoken of in Matt. 24:1-13 is for the very reason that Jesus said that in the Kingdom of Heaven at the time of the end would be a false prophetess that leads HIS bondservants astray. They would not be HIS bondservants if they were not in the Kingdom of Heaven. This seems pretty simple to me.

The fact is that Wm Miller set a date for Oct. 1843 first, then when Jesus did not come then he assumed he was wrong by a year and reset the date. This 'disappointment' is in the prophecy of the 10 Bridesmaids in Matt. 25. The date was actually correct and COULD HAVE HAPPENED, but the Bridegroom had to DELAY the wedding because the Bridesmaids, thinking that they were the bride, failed to get the Bride ready for the wedding. So Jesus had to postpone the wedding. This is in prophecy. So the 'Great Disappointment' actually occurred just as foretold. Again, this proves that the Advent movement that later became the SDA church is the Kingdom of Heaven today.

God DID give Wm Miller the correct date, he just got the event wrong.

And remember the EGW was not a founder of the SDA church. She came in later and usurped the authority with which God had reserved for Himself in the prophecies of Daniel, Revelation, and the words of Jesus.

And God NEVER said that it would be impossible or wrong to know the time of His return. It is clear in Rev. 1:1-3 that the Bondservants of Jesus Christ at the end of time that have not given themselves over to the lies of 'Jezebel', i.e. EGW WOULD know the time (Rev. 3:3). Jesus only said that if you were asleep you would not know the time. I believe that before the end God will reveal the day and the hour of His return, but ONLY to His own Bondservants and not to anyone else.

[ClubV12]

So which one of the MANY web sites did you copy/paste the questions from Truthfiles.

Do the Google, you will find ALL these questions and more all over the web.

Copy/Paste, nothin' but SPAM. I'm disgusted with such low tactics trying to pass this off as sincere questions, what a low sneaky thing to suggest.

[Musicman1228]

By the way, John, I have never and will never try to persuade anyone from leaving the SDA church because as I have shown above the SDA church in fact IS the Kingdom of Heaven on earth today. And since EVERYONE that will be saved must eventually be IN the Kingdom of Heaven why would I want anyone to leave.

You will have to overcome some preconceived ideas about what the Kingdom of Heaven is and how it functions, but there is sufficient prophetic information to show that ADVENTISTS are the K of H.

[John317]

MM, the questions are for an SDA. You and your ideas don't represent the SDA church. You disbelieve in most of the SDA beliefs. That would like my claiming to be RCC and yet rejecting most of RCC doctrines. At least have the honesty to tell Truth Files that your ideas are not representative of the SDA church.

[Truth Files]

"And remember the EGW was not a founder of the SDA church. She came in later and usurped the authority with which God had reserved for Himself in the prophecies of Daniel, Revelation, and the words of Jesus"

>What do you think about her behavior in this case?

>I am serious about investigating just what went on in the early days of the SDA movement and there is no better way to find out from those who think they know

>It is apparent that some would rather not discuss this .... but some will, and should be able do so without lashing out against reasonable questions

[John317]

I agree and appreciate that you don't have the intention of persuading SDA to leave the church, but if SDAs accept your views-- such as about the Bible and Ellen White-- I wouldn't be suprised to see them leaving the SDA church.

[John317]

And remember the EGW was not a founder of the SDA church. She came in later and usurped the authority with which God had reserved for Himself in the prophecies of Daniel, Revelation, and the words of Jesus.

There's no evidence that Ellen White usurped the authority with which God had reserved for Himself.

If you believe there is, post it here. Post the clearest case you can make.

[Truth Files]

"but if SDAs accept your views-- such as about the Bible and Ellen White-- I wouldn't be suprised to see them leaving the SDA church"

Oh I doubt it John317 .... I know many SDAs and know that they would never leave the organization .... and maybe they should stay where they are .... each must choose for themselves don't you think

There are true believers that can be found in a number of professing christian denominations .... and there are also fence sitters [pretenders]

It is not the building or the organization .... it all depends upon one's relationship with Jesus Christ that matters .... some have this ..... and some do not .... I see this all of the time

[John317]

>It is apparent that some would rather not discuss this .... but some will, and should be able do so without lashing out against reasonable questions

It has nothing to do with not wanting to discuss something. It has everything to do with not being willing to put up with a lot of lies and false accusations. Remember the ones that you told yesterday, and which you failed to find any support for.

You said that Ellen White claimed she alone discovered the Investigative Judgment and that she predicted (on the basis of visions) that no more people on earth would be saved.

None of those things are true, and if you are really as truthful as your name claims, you will be concerned to tell the truth about Ellen White and the SDA church.

By the way, since you made those claims but cannot support them, why don't you come open and honest and admit it was a mistake and that you should have made sure of your facts before making the accusations?

[Truth Files]

"It has nothing to do with not wanting to discuss something"

>Then why not answer the questions?

>You as schooled representative of the SDA should be willing to do this for anyone ... nothing to hide and much to share

>No lies from me .... just beliefs that are different than yours

>And you must admit that you and others of the SDA do the same on this forum when is comes to false accusations .... I see it done here all of the time

[John317]

>Then why not answer the questions?

I will not be a party to efforts on this forum of people who come here with the purpose of persuading others to leave the SDA church.If I did that, I would be working at cross-purposes against everything I believe in and am doing. It would be worse than a waste of my time.

[John317]

>No lies from me .... just beliefs that are different than yours

You claimed that (1) Ellen White said she alone discovered the Investigative Judgment and (2) that she predicted (on the basis of visions) that no more people on earth would be saved.

None of those things are true, and if you are really as truthful as your name claims, you will be concerned to tell the truth about Ellen White and the SDA church.

By the way, since you made those claims but cannot support them, why don't you come open and honest and admit it was a mistake and that you should have made sure of your facts before making the accusations?

Are you claiming still that those two claims above are true?

[Truth Files]

Sounds like you are hiding something .... you should be able to take a stand and give witness by answering the questions

[John317]

>And you must admit that you and others of the SDA do the same on this forum when is comes to false accusations .... I see it done here all of the time

This is a broad generalization. What do you have in mind, specifically, if anything? Are you referring to a particular post or person?

Give some examples with quotes and post#.

[John317]

Sounds like you are hiding something .... you should be able to take a stand and give witness by answering the questions

As moderator:

It may sound like it but if you check out a good portion of my 26,783 posts, you'll see that I don't have anything to hide. But on the other hand, I am not here to persuade you to agree with me. I am telling you as the moderator that if you post messages that merely throw lies around, they will be deleted, and if you continue to post them, you will be banned.

Again: questions and opinions are fine, but not outright accusations and lies. By the latter, I mean statements that have no basis in fact and that cannot be supported by valid evidence. For instance, your statement yesterday that Ellen White claimed she alone discovered the Investigative Judgment. You should be able to distinguish between the truth and what is false, and that clearly is false. All a statement like it does is show that you either have no regard for the truth or else you are accepting someone's lies. But in either case, they shouldn't be made on the Forum.

[ClubV12]

Truth Files says,

"I am serious about investigating just what went on in the early days of the SDA movement and there is no better way to find out from those who think they know."

A lie is a misleading statement, a suggestion of sincerity without sincerity is a lie. A lie can be a wave of the hand, a nod of the head, a cleverly worded statement essentially true, but designed to mislead.

The above quote, by Truth Files is a lie, in my opinion. He is "serious" about bringing his attacks against the prophet and the church onto this web site, he is NOT serious about the questions. This is no sincere search for truth, opinions or answers. It's sole purpose is to stir up trouble.

Truth Files you alread KNOW the answers you will accept to these questions. I have NO doubt you have seen them over and over on many different web sites. The answers to these and a 100 other such questions have been answered both by SDA supported web sites with an SDA slant and those who oppose the SDA church. There is not ONE single sincere question posed here that is new. Not ONE you don't already have an answer for.

If John or someone else cares to spend time dealing with these, fine. I will NOT be dragged into this charade.

[Words edited by moderator] Truth Files, straight up, cut the baloney and drop the "sincere" act. Take responsibility, tell like it is. But quit lieing dude, your pathetic.

[Truth Files]

"This is a broad generalization. What do you have in mind, specifically, if anything? Are you referring to a particular post or person?"

Here is one John317 .... and if you are willing to look you can find the same from this poster several times on recent threads of mine

"Your a liar, Truth Files, straight up, cut the baloney and drop the "sincere" act. Take responsibility, tell like it is. But quit lieing dude, your pathetic"

I can post more from the same for you if you like

And you may want to review a number of similar responses by the person called Lysimachus as an example

What do you think?

[ClubV12]

"I am serious about investigating just what went on in the early days of the SDA movement and there is no better way to find out from those who think they know."

"I can post more from the same for you if you like."

THATS the point! You copy/edit/paste a 100 questions like these from numerous web sites readily available with a simple Google search.

So don't leave people with the impression, the LIE, your doing this with some altruistic goal of seeking truth. What is your agenda Truth Files? Why are you really posting this?