Questions?

[Lysimachus]

"It's amazing to me how you didn't put up all these "red flags" against this "Ellen White". You were open, and decided to read her writings for yourself"

Bad advice .... wrong way .... backwards

Take the Lord's first ..... study yourself approved .... learn His truth .... not what others tell you

This is possible to do you know .... and you have His Word in you hand .... no excuses

Don't let anyone tell you otherwise .... your salvation is at the testing

According to God's Word, it commands us to "test" the prophets. See 1 Thess 5:19-21.

So to read only God's Word, and not do what it says in testing the prophets, would be to disobey the Bible.

[teresaq]

I can think of several (if not many) people who had inspired dreams, did miraculous healings, even had "revelations" some might call "visions" in Ellen Whites time! She reports several such dreams related to her by those that had them. Hiram Edson had some kind of heavenly inspired revelation in a corn field. It's reported he also healed people! Loughborough had an interesting dream about a train, no doubt it was inspired. There were others. "Men of God", like some we find in the bible identified that way, might be a fitting term for such folks. I'm not sure I would use the word prophet in any given case, reserving it for a more profound gift, as in Ellen Whites case.

Thank you for reminding us of this. The Lord certainly was with them, also.

They were the Philadelphia church, 1 of the only 2 Jesus had no complaints about...I think about that all the time.

ps I feel no need to defend Ellen White, or my appreciation of her, to be more exact. I believe in her ministry, period. Nothing to debate at all. If others don't believe, well that is between them and their Maker. I don't wish to get in the way. :)

[Truth Files]

But one cannot test those who claim to be prophets without scriptural knowledge

.....and one must observe to see if a "prophet's" telling turns out to be true .... if not the prophet is a fake

The only prophets who do not need testing are the biblical prophets

..... and I must tell you that all others who make the claim are false prophets

Give me an example of a "prophet", other than the biblical prophets, that you have personally observed who demonstrated their claim by foretelling with absolute 100% accuracy .... and I need some evidence

Let's do a little testing

[teresaq]

"It's amazing to me how you didn't put up all these "red flags" against this "Ellen White". You were open, and decided to read her writings for yourself"

Bad advice .... wrong way .... backwards

Take the Lord's first ..... study yourself approved .... learn His truth .... not what others tell you

This is possible to do you know .... and you have His Word in you hand .... no excuses

Don't let anyone tell you otherwise .... your salvation is at the testing

.... and He will hold all accountable for their own seeking .... there will be no blame to place elsewhere

This is very good advice TF...but with the scriptures only, does not mean one would in any wise come to the conclusions you have. Hence the diversity in denominations.

[ClubV12]

Seeing a prophet personally is no gaurentee you would believe any different than hearing or reading about one. Many people didn't acccept the prophets of old when they were among the people, not all accepted Jesus. Even raising Lazarus from the dead didn't convince some. I don't know what to suggest to skeptics, perhaps the same advice I was given, read some of her works. I have read Joseph Smiths works, I came away more skeptical after than before. I read Ellen Whites works and was convicted of truth, though I never met the woman. Some were convinced upon meeting/talking to Ellen White personally, kind of like the Doubting Thomas syndrome. Blessed are those who believe by faith.

[Lysimachus]

Quote:

.... and He will hold all accountable for their own seeking .... there will be no blame to place elsewhere

This is very good advice TF...but with the scriptures only, does not mean one would in any wise come to the conclusions you have. Hence the diversity in denominations.

Good point Teresa. There are literally thousands of denominations who don't have Ellen White or any prophet whatsoever, and they ALL come to different conclusions on the Bible "alone".

Methodists, Lutherans, Anglicans, Calvinists, Presbyterians...etc. etc. ... none of them have a "prophet", and yet none of them come to any "dispensational" understanding of Scripture. They are all "Covenant Theology", and recognize that Israel is realized in the Church. Only the Baptists, Southern Baptists, Assembly of God, Pentecostal, and Non-Denominationals subscribe to "dispensational futurism"--branches off the "Darbyite/Irvingite" movement, and Powerscourt conferences that took place in England.

Yet all these "covenant theology" denominations all disagree with one another on numerous tenants of faith, especially the nature of salvation/predestination, etc.

So Truth Files would do Adventism injustice to conclude that we come to false conclusions of Bible prophecy because we have Ellen White--and that she "messes up" our ability to see His Dispensational Futurist ways of thinking. He needs to ask himself: "then what's messing up the ability of all the Methodists, Lutherans, Anglicans, Calvinists, Presbyterians, etc. etc. from coming to a Dispensational understanding of the Scriptures? they don't have a prophet...hmm...."

Perhaps they don't interpret the Scriptures the same way?

Now we see why Paul said that the gift of prophecy was to help bring "unity of the faith".

[Lysimachus]

Even Ellen White believed in the "dispensation of the Holy Spirit"

"What must be the thoughts of the angels of God as they look upon the church of Christ, and see how slow is the action of those who profess to be the followers of Christ, to impart the light of truth to the world which lies in moral darkness? Heavenly intelligences know that the cross is the great center of attraction. They know that it is through the cross that fallen man is to receive the atonement, and to be brought into unity with God. The councils of heaven are looking upon you who claim to have accepted Christ as your personal Saviour, to see you make known the salvation of God to those who sit in darkness. They are looking to see you making known the significance of the dispensation of the Holy Spirit; how that through the working of this divine agency the minds of men, corrupted and defiled by sin, may become disenchanted with the lies and presentations of Satan, and turn to Christ as their only hope, their personal Saviour." {YRP 47.3}

"The dispensation in which we are now living is to be, to those that ask, the dispensation of the Holy Spirit. Ask for His blessing. It is time we were more intense in our devotion. To us is committed the arduous, but happy, glorious work of revealing Christ to those who are in darkness. We are called to proclaim the special truths for this time. For all this the outpouring of the Spirit is essential. We should pray for [the Spirit]. The Lord expects us to ask Him. We have not been wholehearted in this work." {YRP 304.4}

"What can I say to my brethren in the name of the Lord? What proportion of our efforts has been made in accordance with the light the Lord has been pleased to give? We cannot depend upon form or external machinery. What we need is the quickening influence of the Holy Spirit of God. "Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, said the Lord of hosts" (Zechariah 4:6). Pray without ceasing, and watch by working in accordance with your prayers. As you pray, believe, trust in God. It is the time of the latter rain, when the Lord will give largely of His Spirit. Be fervent in prayer, and watch in the Spirit."--Review and Herald, March 2, 1897. {YRP 304.5}

How could a woman of the devil talk like that? Notice how she uplifts Jesus! Notice how she encourages us to pray earnestly for the Holy Spirit, and be fervent in prayer!

[hch]

Questions from a former SDA member:

Why was there no SDA religion before 1844?

[hch]

Answer the questions John317

.... and I am not and never have been associated with the SDA

But I have convinced many to move away from the organization which I consider to be a large professing christian cult second only in size to the Papal cult of the RCC

[hch]

Playing catch-up. Got to page 4 on this thread. Decided not to catch up. By beholding we become changed.... I'd rather see Jesus.

May the Lord bless His servants real good,

loudcry.2007@gmail.com

[John317]

Those are some excellent, thoughtful answers, hch.

I'm hoping to see Truth File's thoughtful responses to them, as well as to the answers I gave to the same questions.

[John317]

Playing catch-up. Got to page 4 on this thread. Decided not to catch up.

Completely understandable.

[John317]

But one cannot test those who claim to be prophets without scriptural knowledge

....Give me an example of a "prophet", other than the biblical prophets, that you have personally observed who demonstrated their claim by foretelling with absolute 100% accuracy .... and I need some evidence

Let's do a little testing

The only way anyone can truly test Ellen White is to read what she wrote. You can't test a prophet by reading what others have written against him/her.

Isn't it the same with the Bible? Who tests the Bible by reading books against the Bible?

Here's one very important test: Does the prayerful study of Ellen White's writings bring a person closer to Christ and to become ever more devoted to Him and to the study of God's word, or do her wititngs cause a person to have less faith in the Bible and in Christ?

It's like testing an apple: no one would think of testing an apple by reading about it: you have to taste and eat the apple.

[hch]

Originally Posted By: hch

Playing catch-up. Got to page 4 on this thread. Decided not to catch up.

Completely understandable.

You are doing a VERY good job moderating, but as every wind of doctrine is blowing now that we have arrived at the time of trouble spoken of by Daniel the prophet, there is not so much time to do everything that needs to be done.

I will check back from time to time.

[John317]

Thank you so much for that encouraging word, hch. You can be sure it's mighty appreciated.

I agree with you about the way the wind is blowing!! I've recently thought the same thing many times.

[Kevin H]

Questions from a former SDA member:

Why was there no SDA religion before 1844?

There was not emphesses on the Sabbath, thus not the Sabbath day, but we had Adventists among the church fathers, the church got away from Adventism after Augustine, but in the 1100's Joachim of Fiore got us back to Adventism. The Franciscan Priests really hopped on Joachim's ideas. Luther and Calvin were Augustinian, but were influenced by Joachim, but did not grasp the Adventism that the Franciscans had. Then in the 1700s some Protestants did jump on to the Adventist bandwagon (Sir. Isaac Newton was part of this movement).

In the late 1700's Finny began preaching. Miller took basically the same message as Finny with one exception, Finny believed that revival would bring a thousand years of peace before Jesus was to come. Miller took the view of the Adventists that the thousand years starts AT the second coming.

Seventh-day Adventistism did not just show up out of the blue in the mid 1800s. It was just a contunation of a long trend with in Christianity. Just because the Augustinian trend was more popular does not mean that the Adventist trend was not valid.

[ClubV12]

There was a thread some time ago that showed published documents from the 1400's by a group that was not only keeping the Sabbath but was proclaiming the "beast power" as Catholics!

God has ALWAYS had a group somewhere keeping the Sabbath, always.

[Truth Files]

Read the Word of God for yourself and do not follow others who think they know .... all will be held accountable for their own choices .... not to be passed off

The Lord will look at you when you stand before Him .... no one else

So many voices telling you which way to go .... so many choices from those who think they know

There is a way that seems right to a man that will only bring him death .... but you must go the way that leads to life until you take your dying breath

Does the SDA have all of the answers .... leaning upon EGW?

Is there any covered danger hidden within the halls of the SDA church today?

Make certain that you are not following men who would deceive you .... the last 2000 years has produced many pied pipers of falsehood among the professing church across the board

Deception is a mix of truth and error and in most cases a little truth and a whole truck load of error

Are you certain about your salvation with no doubt?

.... if not there may be a deadly flaw or two in the leading that you have chosen to follow

[Kevin H]

We are all humans. We all see through a glass dimly. We are all a mixture of truth and error. Any human orginazation has hidden dangers. We are just as prone as the Hebrews and the early Church.

The point is do we want to have a spirit of sitting at the feet of Jesus and learn more and more about Jesus and willing to grow as we study, or are we going to cling to our errors or more difficult, take a part of the truth and use it against the rest of the truth?

By the way, why do critics keep wanting to know about our certainty of salvation as if to be an Adventist means to constantly be shaking in our feet that God is looking for the slightest excuse to send us to hell? That is a bunch of hogwash that you are craming down our throats and I don't eat hog so I'm not going to accept your hogwash. First of all it is based on a false consept of hell. Heaven and Hell is the same geography: being in the visable pressence of God in all God's beauty and glory, some of us will find it heaven to be with Jesus in person, others will find it hell to be with him and thus want to sepperate from the only source of life. I am certan about my Saviour with no doubt.

[teresaq]

We are all humans. We all see through a glass dimly. We are all a mixture of truth and error. Any human orginazation has hidden dangers. We are just as prone as the Hebrews and the early Church.

The point is do we want to have a spirit of sitting at the feet of Jesus and learn more and more about Jesus and willing to grow as we study, or are we going to cling to our errors or more difficult, take a part of the truth and use it against the rest of the truth?

This is so very true...

[ClubV12]

SDA's don't have a single doctrine dependant on belief in Ellen White.

Take the Sabbath for instance, how plain and simple it is. The 4th commandment, all through the bible. Some say the commandments were done away with, they weren't, but that still leaves the question.

Whats up with Sunday keeping? Any serious bible student will come to the only logical conclusion, it cannot be justified by the bible alone. SDA's are far from the only group, including Catholics, that recognize Saturday is the biblically correct day of worship. Catholics proudly say that changed the day to Sunday, as a sign of their God like power to do so. They point to all the Sunday keepers who FOLLOW THEM as proof of their power to do so! Why not Thursday, as long as were going to ignore God's clear and plain commandments written in stone? Pick a day, any day, if you think it doesn't matter to God.

Here's the deal, God says what He means, and means what He says. His commandments are written in stone for a reason. We are saved by faith, but faith without works is dead. Ignore the law at your peril.