The 1260 Year Interpretation of Protestantism

[John317]

This may be a dumb question, and sorry to interrupt the current discussion.

What year does the 2300 day prophecy begin?

Dan 8:

13. I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one say to the speaker, "How long is this vision to be, of perpetual sacrifice, of horrifying iniquity, of sanctuary and army trampled underfoot?"

14. The first replied, "Until two thousand three hundred evenings and mornings have gone by: then the sanctuary will have its rights restored."

It seems to me that the 2300 days begins when the perpetual sacrifice is stopped by the little/big horn that sprung up from one of the 4 little horns of the he-goat. The Sanctuary is overrun and trampled upon and the perpetual sacrifices are halted until the sanctuary is restored 6.38 years later. That's my understanding of it, a future time period lasting just over 6 years.

Far from being a dumb question.

The Bible doesn't give any beginning date of the 2300 evening-mornings. Unless it began at the same time as the 70 weeks prophecy of Daniel 9: 24-27, we have no beginning date for the 2300 days.

There is excellent evidence that this is exactly when it began. That would be 457 BC. See Ezra 7.

[ClubV12]

There is an endless variety of interpretations for any given segment of the 2,300 year prophecy. Throw a dart at the internet and you'll find yet another man, group or church with their own unique take on it. Which one is correct? Thats kind of like asking which christian church is correct, there are hundreds, if not thousands.

One must search for the truth as for hidden treasure. It will take dedication, you will find many dead ends, dig many holes, but if you are faithful you will find the treasure. I know I did, and I dug a lot of empty holes and looked at a lot of different beliefs. For me, the treasure was found in the Seventh-day Adventist church doctrine. I drew my own 2,300 day/year charts, double checked the numbers, asked a lot of questions in a humble and sincere way, prayed for light on the matter. God will lead you into truth, if you let Him. Don't get hung up on the people, they may well mislead you. I found a LOT of "office politics" in the Baptist church, people problems are everywhere. Don't let it side track your search.

[John317]

....Just because it uses the "words fulfilled" does not mean that it is a direct reference to Daniel nine.

Originally Posted By: John3:17

You say those verses do not refer back to Daniel 9. Then what are they in reference to?

What "time" was fulfilled?

Deal with the Greek word for time, kairos. What is the significance of this word in the context of Mark 1: 15?

"The time has come" in not a literal rendering.

The original language is "peplhrotai ho kairos," and is literally translated, "the time is fulfilled."

"The time has come" is a paraphrase, and it doesn't convey the complete meaning of Jesus' words.

"Peplhrotai" is from the lexicon form, plhroo, Strongs #4137. It means "to fill," "make full," "fill up."

In Matt. 1: 22 and John 7: 8, kairos has to do with the fulfillment of prophecy.

It is different from chronological time, such as clock time.

And the word that "time" is translated from [kairos] points to a "destined time," as in Matt. 8: 29; 26: 18; Mark 1: 15; Luke 21: 24.

Therefore, there is every reason to believe that Mark 1: 15 is a reference to the fulfillment of prophetic time.

If you do not believe this, show from your analysis and reasoning in the Scriptures why it doesn't refer to destined time and what you believe Jesus meant by "the time is fulfilled."

Originally Posted By: miz3

1. You will have to find some other OT reference to make your point because Daniel chapter nine does not make it. It also does not make it by trying to link Mark chapter one to Daniel chapter nine by using a "simple word association". That is just toooooo weak.

Please review the above, especially the part that's in red, and answer the questions.

[12tribes]

Originally Posted By: Aliensanctuary

This may be a dumb question, and sorry to interrupt the current discussion.

What year does the 2300 day prophecy begin?

Dan 8:

13. I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one say to the speaker, "How long is this vision to be, of perpetual sacrifice, of horrifying iniquity, of sanctuary and army trampled underfoot?"

14. The first replied, "Until two thousand three hundred evenings and mornings have gone by: then the sanctuary will have its rights restored."

It seems to me that the 2300 days begins when the perpetual sacrifice is stopped by the little/big horn that sprung up from one of the 4 little horns of the he-goat. The Sanctuary is overrun and trampled upon and the perpetual sacrifices are halted until the sanctuary is restored 6.38 years later. That's my understanding of it, a future time period lasting just over 6 years.

Far from being a dumb question.

The Bible doesn't give any beginning date of the 2300 evening-mornings. Unless it began at the same time as the 70 weeks prophecy of Daniel 9: 24-27, we have no beginning date for the 2300 days.

There is excellent evidence that this is exactly when it began. That would be 457 BC. See Ezra 7.

Just to add to that some words in Daniel 8:13 are in italics meaning they have been added by the translators so it could read like this:-

Daniel 8:13

(13) Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain which spake, How long the vision the daily and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

So he is asking about the whole vision which is why it starts with Medo-Persia

[BobRyan]

How long the vision. Makes "the vision" the subject of the question.

The vision starts in 457 B.C according to Dan 9 and sure enough that is the time when the Ram is already in power and is dominant. But it is before the male goat (Greece) takes charge and overcomes the Ram (Persia)

[miz3]

It is your burden of proof. You are the one asserting something and now you have to give convincing evidence that what you assert is true.

So far I have not seen any convincing evidence that your assertions are true or accurate.

[ClubV12]

Nothing new there miz3, you will never see it because you've already taken an immovable position. Case closed, game over, dialog finished, eyes shut.

[John317]

I already have given convincing evidence. But I am not claiming that it will convince everyone. Even Christ Himself could not convince very many people of the truth. You are not even willing to answer questions or to talk about it.

[John317]

Afraid so. I seldom stop trying to dialogue with people, but I don't see the alternative this time.

[miz3]

I already have given convincing evidence. But I am not claiming that it will convince everyone. Even Christ Himself could not convince very many people of the truth. You are not even willing to answer questions or to talk about it.

Mark chapter one is NOT CONVINCING EVIDENCE. You might as well have said because the sky is full of clouds shows that Daniel chapter nine is referred to in the NT.

You just plucked a text out of the "blue" that had the words "fulfilled" and said here it is.

That is just terrible Bible study. I am extremely disappointed. I expected more integrity in Bible study than that.

If this is what SDA hang their hat on your right there is no more need for discussion. We can only dialogue if the SDA position is credible.

[John317]

You say those verses do not refer back to Daniel 9. Then what are they in reference to?

What "time" was fulfilled?

Deal with the Greek word for time, kairos. What is the significance of this word in the context of Mark 1: 15?

"The time has come" in not a literal rendering.

The original language is "peplhrotai ho kairos," and is literally translated, "the time is fulfilled."

"The time has come" is a paraphrase, and it doesn't convey the complete meaning of Jesus' words.

"Peplhrotai" is from the lexicon form, plhroo, Strongs #4137. It means "to fill," "make full," "fill up."

In Matt. 1: 22 and John 7: 8, kairos has to do with the fulfillment of prophecy.

It is different from chronological time, such as clock time.

And the word that "time" is translated from [kairos] points to a "destined time," as in Matt. 8: 29; 26: 18; Mark 1: 15; Luke 21: 24.

Therefore, there is every reason to believe that Mark 1: 15 is a reference to the fulfillment of prophetic time.

If you do not believe this, show from your analysis and reasoning in the Scriptures why it doesn't refer to destined time and what you believe Jesus meant by "the time is fulfilled."

[miz3]

You say those verses do not refer back to Daniel 9. Then what are they in reference to?

What "time" was fulfilled?

Deal with the Greek word for time, kairos. What is the significance of this word in the context of Mark 1: 15?

"The time has come" in not a literal rendering.

The original language is "peplhrotai ho kairos," and is literally translated, "the time is fulfilled."

"The time has come" is a paraphrase, and it doesn't convey the complete meaning of Jesus' words.

"Peplhrotai" is from the lexicon form, plhroo, Strongs #4137. It means "to fill," "make full," "fill up."

In Matt. 1: 22 and John 7: 8, kairos has to do with the fulfillment of prophecy.

It is different from chronological time, such as clock time.

And the word that "time" is translated from [kairos] points to a "destined time," as in Matt. 8: 29; 26: 18; Mark 1: 15; Luke 21: 24.

Therefore, there is every reason to believe that Mark 1: 15 is a reference to the fulfillment of prophetic time.

If you do not believe this, show from your analysis and reasoning in the Scriptures why it doesn't refer to destined time and what you believe Jesus meant by "the time is fulfilled."

NOT DANIEL CHAPTER NINE!

[phkrause]

miz, there are no other alternatives. unless you can supply another. Who else is considered the Anointed One throughout the Bible? Your taking a stance and giving no other answers as to who its talking about. From what I can tell, since you don't except the day/year principal, you are left with no alternatives but to reject what is clearly who this prophecy is talking about. Just a thought miz, think about it.

[miz3]

You say those verses do not refer back to Daniel 9. Then what are they in reference to?

What "time" was fulfilled?

Deal with the Greek word for time, kairos. What is the significance of this word in the context of Mark 1: 15?

"The time has come" in not a literal rendering.

The original language is "peplhrotai ho kairos," and is literally translated, "the time is fulfilled."

"The time has come" is a paraphrase, and it doesn't convey the complete meaning of Jesus' words.

"Peplhrotai" is from the lexicon form, plhroo, Strongs #4137. It means "to fill," "make full," "fill up."

In Matt. 1: 22 and John 7: 8, kairos has to do with the fulfillment of prophecy.

It is different from chronological time, such as clock time.

And the word that "time" is translated from [kairos] points to a "destined time," as in Matt. 8: 29; 26: 18; Mark 1: 15; Luke 21: 24.

Therefore, there is every reason to believe that Mark 1: 15 is a reference to the fulfillment of prophetic time.

If you do not believe this, show from your analysis and reasoning in the Scriptures why it doesn't refer to destined time and what you believe Jesus meant by "the time is fulfilled."

Even though this has nothing to do with Daniel chapter nine. I will tell you what Mark chapter one refers to.

Mark chapter one refers back to Genesis chapter three verse fifteen. Why? Because in this God in Jesus Christ "fulfilled" the promise He made to Adam and Eve.

[miz3]

You say those verses do not refer back to Daniel 9. Then what are they in reference to?

What "time" was fulfilled?

Deal with the Greek word for time, kairos. What is the significance of this word in the context of Mark 1: 15?

"The time has come" in not a literal rendering.

The original language is "peplhrotai ho kairos," and is literally translated, "the time is fulfilled."

"The time has come" is a paraphrase, and it doesn't convey the complete meaning of Jesus' words.

"Peplhrotai" is from the lexicon form, plhroo, Strongs #4137. It means "to fill," "make full," "fill up."

In Matt. 1: 22 and John 7: 8, kairos has to do with the fulfillment of prophecy.

It is different from chronological time, such as clock time.

And the word that "time" is translated from [kairos] points to a "destined time," as in Matt. 8: 29; 26: 18; Mark 1: 15; Luke 21: 24.

Therefore, there is every reason to believe that Mark 1: 15 is a reference to the fulfillment of prophetic time.

If you do not believe this, show from your analysis and reasoning in the Scriptures why it doesn't refer to destined time and what you believe Jesus meant by "the time is fulfilled."

It is disappointing to see you grasping at such straws. And flimsy straws at that.

John317, I expected better from you.

Why do you resort to such "tricks" when you should be aware it is obvious that the two texts are not linked in anyway?

Why is that you have to constantly resort to debating tricks in order to bolster your belief? I think it makes your SDA belief look weak and untenable.

If your doctrine is so solid then it does not have to rest on debating tricks, linguistic and grammatical tricks, historical mumbo jumbo, remote word associations, etc. Then why do you resort to such things in order to show that your failed doctrine is correct?

Why can you not just take the plain clear word of God for what it actually says?

Anyone who has to stretch the way you have done cannot have the correct doctrine.

[Lysimachus]

To cleanse a sanctuary at the end of a 2300 days/year period, the sanctuary must be in full function for 2300 days/years. The question is, what year was the sanctuary in full operation for the people of Israel?

[Lysimachus]

Miz3, you need to just quit arguing, and perhaps even consider leaving this board. Nothing that has been said is flimsy as straws. Everything they have presented to you fits like a glove. Your problem is, you just don't want to see it. Regardless, that is the bottom. You. Don't. Want. To. See. It. The truth is crystal clear to the open and receptive heart to truth. Your heart is closed. The Spirit of God cannot penetrate.

[miz3]

Miz3, you need to just quit arguing, and perhaps even consider leaving this board. Nothing that has been said is flimsy as straws. Everything they have presented to you fits like a glove. Your problem is, you just don't want to see it. Regardless, that is the bottom. You. Don't. Want. To. See. It. The truth is

crystal clear to the open and receptive heart to truth. Your heart is closed. The Spirit of God cannot penetrate.

The same can and is being said about you.

The fact is that you are indeed on flimsy ground but you don't want to acknowledge it.

No year/day brings down you whole house.

Flimsy word associations show how desperate you are to grab at anything to hold together you crumbling theory.

[John317]

... I will tell you what Mark chapter one refers to.

Mark chapter one refers back to Genesis chapter three verse fifteen. Why? Because in this God in Jesus Christ "fulfilled" the promise He made to Adam and Eve.

Gen. 3: 15 is certainly a prophecy that was fulfilled when Christ came the first time, although it won't be completely fulfilled until Satan has been destroyed.

But Mark 1: 15 cannot be referring to Gen. 3: 15, for notice that Mark 1: 15 refers to "time" [Gr kairos] that was "fulfilled."

What "time" was fulfilled?

Deal with the Greek word for time, kairos. What is the significance of this word in the context of Mark 1: 15?

In Matt. 1: 22 and John 7: 8, kairos has to do with the fulfillment of prophecy.

It is different from chronological time, such as clock time.

And the word that "time" is translated from-- kairos-- points to a "destined time," as in Matt. 8: 29; 26: 18; Mark 1: 15; Luke 21: 24.

Therefore, there is every reason to believe that Mark 1: 15 is a reference to the fulfillment of prophetic time.

[John317]

Why do you resort to such "tricks" when you should be aware it is obvious that the two texts are not linked in anyway?

Why is that you have to constantly resort to debating tricks in order to bolster your belief? I think it makes your SDA belief look weak and untenable.

Please also consider Galatians 4: 4:

But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son...

to plhroma tou kronou

Notice that these are the same words that are used in Mark 1: 15.

Gal. 4: 4 points to a specific point in time that God planned for Jesus to come.

Jesus not only came right on time, but He also was anointed right on time and died at the very hour that the Bible predicted He would die. Jesus knew this long beforehand because Bible prophecy predicted it hundreds of years before it happened.

Why in the world would you consider it incredible that God would tell His people ahead of time when the Messiah (who is referred to in Genesis 3: 15) was to come?

There is a very good reason that God did this. Not only did God reveal WHEN the Messiah would come, but He told where He would be born, what tribe and family He would come out of, and many of the detailed events of His life.

Why did God do this?

[John317]

...In Matt. 1: 22 and John 7: 8, kairos has to do with the fulfillment of prophecy.

It is different from chronological time, such as clock time.

And the word that "time" is translated from [kairos] points to a "destined time," as in Matt. 8: 29; 26: 18; Mark 1: 15; Luke 21: 24.

Galatians 4: 4 supports Mark 1: 15:

Gal. 4:4--- But when the fulness of the time[Gr tou kronou] was come, God sent forth his Son...

Therefore, there is every reason to believe that Mark 1: 15 is a reference to the fulfillment of prophetic time.

If you do not believe this, show from your analysis and reasoning in the Scriptures why it doesn't refer to destined time and what you believe Jesus meant by "the time is fulfilled."

Originally Posted By: miz3

NOT DANIEL CHAPTER NINE!

Then please kindly offer us your well-reasoned alternative.

[miz3]

That is just your opinion! That is not established fact!

[miz3]

Is this the SDA position that Mark chapter one and Galatians chapter four are referring to Daniel chapter nine?

[miz3]

John317, is the official SDA position that by "word association only" that Galatians 4:4 and Mark 1:15 are referring directly to Daniel chapter nine?

[Lysimachus]

That is just your opinion! That is not established fact!

You sound like a broken record. Or maybe you are in need of a lifeboat.