WHICH COMMANDMENTS EXISTED BEFORE EARTH'S CREATION?

[Gustave]

Originally Posted By: Gustave

There wasn't a second "7th day" ( Rest of God ) for our 1st Parents...

...There wasn't even a 1st 7th day - Adam and Eve never made it that far.

...Adam and Eve were created and sinned on the 6th day.

Even IF that were true, you've already stated that A&E were kicked out of God's rest and now you say that they never made it that far. One cannot be kicked out of something if they never were in something to begin with. Which story do you want to go with? I refuse to accept both and so should you.

I didn't say that right then - the teaching is that A&E NEVER made it to "The Rest of God"...

...The teaching was that they were created and sinned on the 6th day.

...This is Judaism 101.

[Parade Orange]

o wow

what a busy first day of life!

first name all animals

then fall asleep

then awake to see EVE

then get to know each other

then marry

then have sex

then eve wonders off

then eat the fruit

by the cool of the day

whew im tuckered just thinking about

[Parade Orange]

btw ive heard the theory of 40 days [ or the long drawn out ridiculouse 40 years scenerio ] then given into temptation

GOD uses the #40 alot cause of that they say

[John317]

... the teaching is that A&E NEVER made it to "The Rest of God"...

...The teaching was that they were created and sinned on the 6th day.

...This is Judaism 101.

That's tradition, Gustave. It holds no authority, and in fact makes no sense according to what the Bible tells us.

As I said before, your theory would mean the Fall occurred before God rested on the Sabbath, and then blessed it and made it holy, which He did because the creation was perfect. If the Fall occurred on the day before the Sabbath, there would be no reason for the Sabbath because then the creation wouldn't be perfect.

Besides, notice that at the end of creation-- that is, at the end of the sixth day-- God pronounced the creation to be "VERY good." He couldn't have done that if the creation was already imperfect because of the Fall.

[John317]

LOL

Yes, I've thought of that too, and like you, I got tired just thinking about it. The pace must have been really something!

It was like, "Hey Adam, hurry up. Aren't you done yet? You don't have all day. There's lots to do yet."

But of course it had to take more than a few hours to name all the animals. To name them, Adam had to observe them for a little while because their names were based on his knowledge of them.

Personally, I think on that first day, Adam wouldn't have let Eve out of his sight. That had to happen after he quit paying so much attention to her. They both were paying attention to other things by that time. Sounds like it was after their honey-moon. They already needed a little time away from each other apparently.

[12tribes]

The 10 commandments is not just about the letter of the law

Exodus 20:14

(14) Thou shalt not commit adultery.

How can this apply to angels? If this is a transcript of the character of God then what does it teach? It is possible to keep this law on the outward but, not be changed on the inward.

Ephesians 5:25

(25) Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

If we do this we would not break this law, if we have the love of Christ in our heart we would keep this on the inward and outward.So did Christ have this love before creation.

Hebrews 13:8

(8) Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

So we see that in principle this commandment was there it is about revealing love not just an outward show.

[nuff sed]

Perhaps NONE of the Ten Commandments existed before Moses time....In unfallen worlds they are not necessary. God's Law has always existed. But IMO the Ten Commandments are not God's Law. Anything that comes between us and God is Sin. God in His love and mercy (and his Law) took the time to point out to us the ten different areas that could separate us from Him. They are, therefore, not negative but positive. The problem is we focus in keeping the "Commandments" and miss the "Law" entirely. Nuff Sed

[skyblue888]

This is not the first time this is being debated and it won't be the first time the following statement is posted:

"The law of God existed before man was created. It was adapted to the condition of holy beings; even angels were governed by it. After the fall, the principles of righteousness were unchanged. Nothing was taken from the law; not one of its holy precepts could be improved. And as it has existed from the beginning, so will it continue to exist throughout the ceaseless ages of eternity. 'Concerning Your testimonies,' says the Psalmist, 'I have known of old that You have founded them forever.'" E.G. White, Signs of the Times, April 15, 1886.

sky :)

[skyblue888]

"Adam and Eve, at their creation, had a knowledge of the law of God. It was printed on their hearts, and they understood its claims upon them." MS 99, 1902.

"The principles of the ten commandments existed before the fall, and were of a character suited to the condition of a holy order of beings. After the fall, the principles of those precepts were not changed, but additional precepts were given to meet man in his fallen state." 3 SG 295.

Was the Sabbath one of those additional precepts?

sky

[skyblue888]

Here is the last statement in full:

"The Sabbath of the fourth commandment was instituted in Eden. After God had made the world, and created man upon the earth, He made the Sabbath for man. After Adam's sin and fall nothing was taken from the law of God. The principles of the ten commandments existed before the fall, and were of a character suited to the condition of a holy order of beings. After the fall, the principles of those precepts were not changed, but additional precepts were given to meet man in his fallen state."

So does that mean that the Sabbath did not exist before the creation of man?

sky

[John317]

God in His love and mercy (and his Law) took the time to point out to us the ten different areas that could separate us from Him. They are, therefore, not negative but positive.

Good points here.

Most of them were written in the negative because of our fallen nature. On the unfallen worlds, the intelligent creatures don't have such laws. In fact, they probably aren't aware of laws per se because the law is instilled in their very beings.

If we've shown in this life that we want God's law instilled in our beings by voluntarily beginning the process now of having it written on our minds and hearts, God will complete the process when Christ returns.

[John317]

I don't believe that the seventh-day Sabbath existed before Eden. The Sabbath occurs in a weekly cycle to correspond to the earth's rotation and is suited to our body's need for rest. So in this way, it is unique to earth and to humanity, but I believe the principle is the same on other worlds. No doubt they also have their occasions of rest and worship when they devote themselves to reflection upon the Creator.

[skyblue888]

Yes and God will write them on our minds and hearts if, conscious our our great need, we daily come to Him just as we are, sinful, helpless, dependent, trusting wholly in the merits of the blood shed for us upon Calvary's cross, appropriating His merits to ourselves. Then the ten commandments become promises to us because they become the voice of God speaking to us in promise. There is not a negative in that law.

"That law of ten precepts of the greatest love that can be presented to man is the voice of God from Heaven speaking to the soul in promise. There is not a negative in that law, although it may appear thus." E.G. White, 1 B.C.1105.

sky :)

[John317]

[skyblue888]

:)

[Gustave]

Originally Posted By: Gustave

... the teaching is that A&E NEVER made it to "The Rest of God"...

...The teaching was that they were created and sinned on the 6th day.

...This is Judaism 101.

That's tradition, Gustave. It holds no authority, and in fact makes no sense according to what the Bible tells us.

As I said before, your theory would mean the Fall occurred before God rested on the Sabbath, and then blessed it and made it holy, which He did because the creation was perfect. If the Fall occurred on the day before the Sabbath, there would be no reason for the Sabbath because then the creation wouldn't be perfect.

Besides, notice that at the end of creation-- that is, at the end of the sixth day-- God pronounced the creation to be "VERY good." He couldn't have done that if the creation was already imperfect because of the Fall.

The Bible tells us God created the perfect habitat for our 1st Parents...

...They "sinned" and were ejected from this "Rest of God".

...God 'cursed the ground' and it started to puke out thorns, weeds, etc.

You seem to have a problem with God's Rest being a perpetual state....

...Something the Bible teaches that's reflected in Jewish Sacred Tradition.

...You are stuck with the false belief that A&E observed a Saturday sabbath.

...Then busted sod for 6 days and again observed a saturday sabbath - a cycle which would be blasphemous.

[skyblue888]

Gustave, I have heard strange things in my life but what you just said takes the cake.

sky

[John317]

...You are stuck with the false belief that A&E observed a Saturday sabbath.

...Then busted sod for 6 days and again observed a saturday sabbath - a cycle which would be blasphemous.

Why would it have been blasphemous for Adam and Eve to observed the weekly Sabbath if it isn't blasphemous for Catholics to observe a false sabbath and if it wasn't blasphemous for people to observe the true Sabbath in Exodus 16 in rememberance of God's creative work?

Is it blasphemous for us today to observe the Lord's day, His holy Sabbath day?

[doug yowell]

Gustave, I have heard strange things in my life

...and getting stranger all the time.

[John317]

As I said before, your theory would mean the Fall occurred before God rested on the Sabbath, and then blessed it and made it holy, which He did because the creation was perfect. If the Fall occurred on the day before the Sabbath, there would be no reason for the Sabbath because then the creation wouldn't be perfect.

Besides, notice that at the end of creation-- that is, at the end of the sixth day-- God pronounced the creation to be "VERY good." He couldn't have done that if the creation was already imperfect because of the Fall.

Originally Posted By: Gustave

The Bible tells us God created the perfect habitat for our 1st Parents...

...They "sinned" and were ejected from this "Rest of God".

...God 'cursed the ground' and it started to puke out thorns, weeds, etc.

...You are stuck with the false belief that A&E observed a Saturday sabbath.

...Then busted sod for 6 days and again observed a saturday sabbath - a cycle which would be blasphemous.

Jesus said that He made the Sabbath as a benefit to Adam and Eve. They are obviously included in "mankind." So are you, even if you don't realize it. He made the Sabbath as a gift for Adam and for you and me.

Consider this: If the Sabbath was important BEFORE the Fall, when man was perfect and didn't have hard work to do--- just think how important the Sabbath would be AFTER the Fall, when people have a lot of hard work to do and when they especially need a weekly reminder that God is our Creator and Savior.

Please explain, if possible, how can anyone say that observing the Lord's Sabbath is blasphemous?

[John317]

You seem to have a problem with God's Rest being a perpetual state....

...Something the Bible teaches that's reflected in Jewish Sacred Tradition.

.

Please say more about this.

Jewish tradition can't be an authority for Christians, can it?

[skyblue888]

The physical rest from our weekly labors on the Sabbath is a perpetual reminder that we are God's creatures in Christ and of the continual spiritual rest that we have in Him by trusting wholly in the merits of His shed blood.

How is that?

sky

[Gustave]

Please say more about this.

Jewish tradition can't be an authority for Christians, can it?

When it agrees with Christian Sacred Tradition it absolutely is.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: Skyblue

Please say more about this.

Jewish tradition can't be an authority for Christians, can it?

When it agrees with Christian Sacred Tradition it absolutely is.

The writer of Hebrews chapter four talks about a "perpetual rest" a "perpetual Sabbath Rest".

I think Gustave has something here in this regard. The "Sabbath Rest" is a constant state of being for those who are righteous in Jesus Christ. In other words the "Sabbath" is bigger than just simply a "day".

Having said that I also agree that there is a "seventh day" set aside for "rest" unlike the other days that are "not for rest". It does not mean that we cannot "rest" on other days but we are clearly mandated to "rest" on the "seventh day" regardless how we treat the other days.

That "seventh day" of rest is also a "holy" day because God said it was. That means the other "six days" are NOT HOLY even if we "rest" on those days as well.

The best we can get from Holy Scripture is this concept. The Bible is short on "details" of how specifically that "seventh day Sabbath of Rest" is to be lived out. Since we are inherently "sinfully dumb creatures" it is hard for us to fully understand what God intends and wants.

We do know that the "seventh day Sabbath" has clearly been set aside as "Holy" unlike the other "six days of the week".

This specific "seventh day Sabbath of Rest" in no way shape or form dilutes Gustave's excellent point that God intended Adam and Eve along with their posterity to be in a "perpetual Rest" with God throughout eternity. That is the "rest" the author of Hebrews is talking about.

Both the specific "day of rest" and the "concept of rest" are binding and apart of God's Holy Law.

[miz3]

Apparently there may have not always been a Law of God. Paul seems to say this in the following text.

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. "

Galatians 5:22-23.

Those who have and display the "Fruit of the Spirit" do not need nor do they have a Law.