Moderators John317 Posted September 24, 2011 Moderators Posted September 24, 2011 Jewish tradition can't be an authority for Christians, can it? Originally Posted By: Gustave When it agrees with Christian Sacred Tradition it absolutely is. There's nothing wrong with tradition per se, and in fact it can be a good thing-- but only if it agrees with the Bible. If church, or any other, tradition disagrees with Scripture, we have to reject it. In other words, Scripture (by which I mean the Protestant Bible) must be the measuring-stick of truth. Ellen White's writings also must be judged by that measuring stick. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted September 24, 2011 Moderators Posted September 24, 2011 ...The writer of Hebrews chapter four talks about a "perpetual rest" a "perpetual Sabbath Rest". I think Gustave has something here in this regard. The "Sabbath Rest" is a constant state of being for those who are righteous in Jesus Christ. In other words the "Sabbath" is bigger than just simply a "day". Having said that I also agree that there is a "seventh day" set aside for "rest" unlike the other days that are "not for rest". It does not mean that we cannot "rest" on other days but we are clearly mandated to "rest" on the "seventh day" regardless how we treat the other days. That "seventh day" of rest is also a "holy" day because God said it was. That means the other "six days" are NOT HOLY even if we "rest" on those days as well. I agree. The writer of Hebrews says that the seventh-day Sabbath is a symbol of the spiritual rest that we enjoy throughout the week. God's holy day points us to the future when we will have REAL rest and it also reminds us of the spiritual rest that we have in the present. I understand the writer to be saying that every time we keep the weekly Sabbath, we are showing that we are resting in Christ. So the weekly Sabbath is really a sign or symbol of righteousness by faith. It is very obvious to me that the original readers of the book of Hebrews were Sabbath-keepers. They were well acquainted with the Sabbath. Notice that the Sabbath is viewed as completely positive. There's nothing in Hebrews 4 which suggests that the Sabbath is no longer kept or that the Sabbath was somehow a negative experience. It couldn't be negative and yet be a symbol of God's blessings both in the present and in the future. "Sabbath-keeping remains..." He's talking about both the literal Sabbath and the symbolic meaning of the literal Sabbath. Without the literal Sabbath, the symbol of the Sabbatism[eternal keeping of the Sabbath rest for the people of God] disappears. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted September 24, 2011 Moderators Posted September 24, 2011 Apparently there may have not always been a Law of God. Paul seems to say this in the following text. "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. " Galatians 5:22-23. Those who have and display the "Fruit of the Spirit" do not need nor do they have a Law. Paul is emphisizing that there is no law against love, and that in fact the law of God commands love (v. 14). He is saying that when we are fulfilling the law, we are not "under the law." Only the disobedient and rebellious are "under the law" (1 Tim. 1: 9-10). But if we disobey the law, then we show our need of it. The law of God has always existed. It need not be consciously kept as a set of rules in order for it to exist. It's kind of like we're not conscious of the law of gravity until we try to disobey it. In the same way, I'm not aware of the health law until I lose my health. Then I'm more likely to be aware of the necessity of obeying them. This is exactly what Paul says in 1 Tim. 1: 8-11: Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, [9] understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, [10] the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, [11] in accordance with the glorious gospel of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Raphael Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 The 24 hour Saturday Sabbath or even its 7 day cycle did not exist before creation. It is uniquely of earth planet related time-frame rotation only. There are Sabbaths in other not-yet-fallen worlds but not in our 'planetary' terms. The other (moral) laws of don't kill, lie, covet, etc, are ofcourse, moral values that apply anywhere. Quote Test me with thy might but grant me safe passage. Now, who said that?
Members phkrause Posted September 24, 2011 Members Posted September 24, 2011 GP, without the Jews we would not have Christianity. The Jews gave us what we have today. Read "Our Father Abraham, Jewish Roots of the Christian Faith" by Marvin R. Wilson. Its pretty good and has many interesting thoughts. And as far as the 10C are concerned, they are Gods character, so in a sense they definitely were before the earth was created. Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Moderators John317 Posted September 24, 2011 Moderators Posted September 24, 2011 Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted September 24, 2011 Moderators Posted September 24, 2011 ...The teaching was that they were created and sinned on the 6th day....This is Judaism 101. No disrepect intended to anyone's culture, but that is not authoritative; it's tradition. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
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