Aliensanctuary Posted October 2, 2011 Posted October 2, 2011 Sometimes I think that most of our religious beliefs will ultimately have to be discarded in the rubbish pile of human history because they are so far off. What will count the most in the Kingdom is how we treated everyone around us, not which particular myths and superstitions or errors we believed in. That is how we demonstrate our love and loyalty to our creator whom we have not yet seen, by our demonstration in this life of how we would treat others, friendlies and otherwise, if we were allowed to join the Kingdom of God as permanent members. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451
M. T. Cross Posted October 2, 2011 Posted October 2, 2011 Of course all of this is just my POV. How I got where I am. People are not always ready to get the answers, and thats just part of the journey. For the record - I was not implying that I do have THE answers. As a matter of fact the more I learn, the more I find out how few answers I actually have. To me that is the exciting part - finding new questions. Quote
M. T. Cross Posted October 2, 2011 Posted October 2, 2011 Originally Posted By: EmptyCross You have struck upon my dilema. There are so many messages. So many so called "truths". But we as a species have to dig to find these "truths". They are so often shrouded in myth, in fairy tales, in amongst lies, and there are so many paths to get to the end truth, if indeed there is one. I truly think there is no "one" true way. That each of us have to find the path that leads us to where we need to get too. This is my problem with organized, dogmatic religion be it one of the Abrahamic religions, eastern philosophy or paganism. When we sit and say "This is IT. These are the absolute rules, follow them or be lost!" we limit our own growth, we limit our chances of KNOWING There is a saying in Buddhism, (I'm not Buddhist nor am I promoting Buddhism) "If you see Buddha walking down the road kill him." I think this is referring to this need to name things and say we have arrived. It basically means that if you think you know what Buddha is then you need to kill that. It makes sense that if we live in an infinite universe with infinite possibilities and we have a limited capacity to understand and limited time to learn then as soon as I say "This is it" then I'm limiting my search. It's rather arrogant because then I'm claiming to have an exhaustive knowledge of all possible outcomes without an experienced proof. We can calculate things to predict outcomes, but so often there is some hidden variable we didn't account for. And in an infinite universe these variables could be quite extensive. We function by probabilities because we can't know every outcome. And that is simply a clever functional way to live life without knowing everything. It often seems real, but at some point it still is an illusion. One can be afraid of that illusion or one can choose to live life like it will all work out. I simply choose to live like it all will work out because that is a far more pleasant way to be. Most times if something isn't going to work out I didn't waste time worrying about it and shifted my focus when the events required it. That is the human condition as I see it. Its kind of how I see it as well. I think the first thing one needs to ask about anything is -"Will this make me a better person, parent, spouce, friend,co-worker - will it enrich my life and in the process the lives of those around me". If so then one might be on to the thing that is right for them. I have seen it where Christianity has done that for people. I have also seen it fill people with turmoil and torture that made everyone around them miserable. I would wager that then it was not probably the right answer for them. The search should have continued for them. I don't think my search will ever end. But maybe thats what it is that answers that initial question for me. Maybe that thirst for knowledge and new answers is my path. It has been my experience that when you ask a lot of questions about everything - look at it all with a critical eye, you get better answers. And you can learn from everything. Personally I think if we could all put aside the whole "My religion/faith/path/ is the right way and yours is wrong" mentality and just shared and discussed in a reasonable and repectful way - then perhaps we could begin to scratch the surface of what truth really looks like. Quote
LifeHiscost Posted October 2, 2011 Posted October 2, 2011 A book to recommend - The Sacredness of Questioning Everything I doubt that is true. God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted October 2, 2011 Posted October 2, 2011 Is it a human condition or a religious condition, for people to start posting and questioning the authors book before even reading based solely on the title? No wonder their is so much 'argument' amonst persons.....don't try to understand the other side.....just presume!!! Or should that be "know" as opposed to "presume"? "....nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day."2 Tim 1:12 NKJV The fact that some are satisfied to live with doubt is not a good reason why others must accept their choice to live in fear. God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted October 2, 2011 Posted October 2, 2011 It would be good to know something about the book so readers will be able to decide whether they want to read it. With multiplied hundreds of books coming out every day, it seems the better part of wisdom to avoid most books, based on the scantiest of evidence, if only for the fact that time is too valuable to waste on questionable benefits. God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted October 2, 2011 Posted October 2, 2011 Quote: Truth is a fact Couldn't agree with you more. "Jesus said to him, I am....the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father except by (through) Me." John 14:6 AMP Parenthesis their's LHC God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted October 2, 2011 Posted October 2, 2011 I think the figure is somewhere around 300 accurate descriptions of events or information of Jesus from biblical records written maybe 500 years before Christ was born. The possibility of that happening randomly is somewhere around 80 to the 10th power with 240 zeros behind it. That mathematical certainty is somewhat skewed because I don't have time to get the accurate figures, but it puts forward the reality that the certainty of the Bible is the Truth, far more certain than whether we are going to live to see another day to heap abuse on the Word of God. Many living today will be living when He returns, much to their chagrin, as they at last recognize with horror that it is too late to yield to His loving overtures to save them from the destruction to come. God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Moderators Gerr Posted October 2, 2011 Moderators Posted October 2, 2011 Satan, the ultimate bogeyman. http://freethoughtblogs.com/alethianworldview/2011/09/28/gospel-disproof-6-satan/ And the bogeyman will get you! Quote
fccool Posted October 2, 2011 Posted October 2, 2011 I think the figure is somewhere around 300 accurate descriptions of events or information of Jesus from biblical records written maybe 500 years before Christ was born. The possibility of that happening randomly is somewhere around 80 to the 10th power with 240 zeros behind it. What is the mathematical possibility of someone picking up those prophecies and writing a book that fulfilled all of them? Quote
cardw Posted October 2, 2011 Posted October 2, 2011 Originally Posted By: John317 It would be good to know something about the book so readers will be able to decide whether they want to read it. With multiplied hundreds of books coming out every day, it seems the better part of wisdom to avoid most books, based on the scantiest of evidence, if only for the fact that time is too valuable to waste on questionable benefits. And that is why I no longer hold the Bible as anything other than a made up book because it is based on the scantiest of evidence and it has questionable benefit. The difference is that I am willing to look at your evidence if you ever present any. Your method is to ignore anything that disagrees with your views so you can stay comfortable "knowing" that you are "right." Quote Rich http://tiny.cc/CM2j8
cardw Posted October 2, 2011 Posted October 2, 2011 The fact that some are satisfied to live with doubt is not a good reason why others must accept their choice to live in fear. Quote Rich http://tiny.cc/CM2j8
cardw Posted October 2, 2011 Posted October 2, 2011 I think the first thing one needs to ask about anything is -"Will this make me a better person, parent, spouce, friend,co-worker - will it enrich my life and in the process the lives of those around me". If so then one might be on to the thing that is right for them. I have seen it where Christianity has done that for people. I have also seen it fill people with turmoil and torture that made everyone around them miserable. I would wager that then it was not probably the right answer for them. The search should have continued for them. Quote Rich http://tiny.cc/CM2j8
M. T. Cross Posted October 2, 2011 Posted October 2, 2011 Many living today will be living when He returns, much to their chagrin, as they at last recognize with horror that it is too late to yield to His loving overtures to save them from the destruction to come. God blesses! There is the terror tactic. Believe or die. No matter if it makes any sense to the logical mind, no matter that all we have is a book that often contridicts itself and goes in circles. Still - believe! or burn in hell. I often wonder. If the almighty God was so inclined to have us foolow, obey and serve him, why does he not give an unrefutable sign to each generation? Why leave us in the dark, with a eclectic bunch of writings that people spend more time arguing about than they do following? Why when he is asked a question does he not just give an answer? One that actually answers the question and makes some simple sense? Instead we are left to FEAR what will happen if we do not blindly follow,do our time of servitude and bow on bended knee to a being that does nothing, NOTHING at all to endure us to him other than allow a bunch of religions that all try to outshine and out "truth" the other go on in his name. Quote
CoAspen Posted October 2, 2011 Posted October 2, 2011 Quote: If the almighty God was so inclined to have us foolow, obey and serve him, why does he not give an unrefutable sign to each generation? Why leave us in the dark, with a eclectic bunch of writings that people spend more time arguing about than they do following? Why when he is asked a question does he not just give an answer? One that actually answers the question and makes some simple sense? He gave us a brain and the ability to make choices...what more do we need? Believe or burn in hell, defy gravity, get hurt, wait at the light or walk in traffic and die, etc. It IS simple, humans make it difficult, our problem , not Gods! Quote
M. T. Cross Posted October 2, 2011 Posted October 2, 2011 Quote: If the almighty God was so inclined to have us foolow, obey and serve him, why does he not give an unrefutable sign to each generation? Why leave us in the dark, with a eclectic bunch of writings that people spend more time arguing about than they do following? Why when he is asked a question does he not just give an answer? One that actually answers the question and makes some simple sense? He gave us a brain and the ability to make choices...what more do we need? Believe or burn in hell, defy gravity, get hurt, wait at the light or walk in traffic and die, etc. It IS simple, humans make it difficult, our problem , not Gods! Thats kinda my point. He gave us a brain and then a message that makes almost no sense. There in lies the problem. I am not saying he does NOT exist. I am saying that there is a serious amount of missing information if he does. Quote
fccool Posted October 2, 2011 Posted October 2, 2011 Quote: Believe or burn in hell, defy gravity, get hurt, wait at the light or walk in traffic and die, etc.It IS simple, humans make it difficult, our problem , not Gods! Humans have an obvious limitations on knowledge. Each of us has to start over and construct a concept of reality as it is, based on information around us. We can't go back in time and see certain things. We are left hanging on certain unverifiable claims, which the only tool we have to process through is logic. For you to say, "it's simple, and humans make it difficult", is like me putting a plate in front of the newborn and say "Eat or die, it's simple, but babies make it difficult. Your problem, not mine" Quote
CoAspen Posted October 2, 2011 Posted October 2, 2011 Perceptions...perception! God says believe in me and live, man says do this and do that, then you will be saved. Quote: is like me putting a plate in front of the newborn and say "Eat or die, it's simple, but babies make it difficult. Good try but no go! I have yet to see someone do that and babies make a choice to eat, its natural! Try again!! Quote
LifeHiscost Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Originally Posted By: Igakusei Satan, the ultimate bogeyman. http://freethoughtblogs.com/alethianworldview/2011/09/28/gospel-disproof-6-satan/ And the bogeyman will get you! God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Originally Posted By: LifeHiscost I think the figure is somewhere around 300 accurate descriptions of events or information of Jesus from biblical records written maybe 500 years before Christ was born. The possibility of that happening randomly is somewhere around 80 to the 10th power with 240 zeros behind it. What is the mathematical possibility of someone picking up those prophecies and writing a book that fulfilled all of them? Just conjecture but probably the same mathematical possibility that the "Wizard of OZ" is true, or that the assumption that the beginning of the creation is based upon something coming from nothing, as is accepted by many today. God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Quote: Look at what happens to people when they think they have all the answers. The confident Christian is certain there is much of which he does not have answers. He just knows Who does have all the answers. "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."Ephesians 6:12 NKJV God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Quote: There is the terror tactic. Believe or die. No matter if it makes any sense to the logical mind, no matter that all we have is a book that often contridicts itself and goes in circles. Still - believe! or burn in hell. A mistake is made when suggesting burning in hell. Hell is the language existing prior to the English translation and can be described as the grave. Burning in hell means to burn up at the coming of Jesus as Creator, not burning throughout eternity. The time span is shortlived and is reserved for those who would be more than happy to hang Jesus on the cross the second time, rather than bow the knee to One Who accepts His rightful place as Sovereign Creator. Since the Creator is the Originator of Life, where does one go when turning down that gift? "At this point many of his disciples turned away and deserted him. Then Jesus turned to the Twelve and asked, “Are you also going to leave?” Simon Peter replied, “Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words that give eternal life" John 6:66-68 NLT God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
M. T. Cross Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Quote: There is the terror tactic. Believe or die. No matter if it makes any sense to the logical mind, no matter that all we have is a book that often contridicts itself and goes in circles. Still - believe! or burn in hell. A mistake is made when suggesting burning in hell. Hell is the language existing prior to the English translation and can be described as the grave. Burning in hell means to burn up at the coming of Jesus as Creator, not burning throughout eternity. The time span is shortlived and is reserved for those who would be more than happy to hang Jesus on the cross the second time, rather than bow the knee to One Who accepts His rightful place as Sovereign Creator. Since the Creator is the Originator of Life, where does one go when turning down that gift? "At this point many of his disciples turned away and deserted him. Then Jesus turned to the Twelve and asked, “Are you also going to leave?” Simon Peter replied, “Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words that give eternal life" John 6:66-68 NLT God blesses! I don't believe I said anything about an eternal burning Quote
LifeHiscost Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 So then the question is still, since the Creator is the Originator of Life, where does one go when turning down that gift? "In Him was life, and the life was the light of men."John 1:3 NKJV God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
M. T. Cross Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Well if one turns down life, they die. However, I seem to be quite alive, therefore I have turned down nothing - no matter what source it came from. Quote
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