At the crucifixion, did Christ's divine nature die as well?

[Robert]

...In other words God Himself made us "sinful" because of what Adam did.

[Robert]

The devil did not "kill Jesus Christ" humans and their sin driven by the sinful nature killed Jesus Christ.

The devil worked through sinful, fallen humans to do his evil deeds. The Bible says that those who refuse Christ are under the power of the evil one:

You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. [John 8:44]

When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness [satan and his angels]. [Luke 22:53]

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

...In other words God Himself made us "sinful" because of what Adam did.

Your theology is down right scary....It's absurd! You make a God of love into a monster.

The Bible states that "for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he also brought into bondage". Mankind was imbued with Lucifer's self-love at the fall. Because we were in Adam when he fell, all he can pass to us is a humanity indwelt with sin. It is Lucifer who overcame Adam and imbued him with iniquity. To make this charge against God is blasphemy.

Quote:

2. Satan is not and never has been the "god" of this world.

Paul: 2 Cor 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Christ as recorded in John 14:30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me.

Luke 4:5 And the devil took him [Jesus] up and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time, 6 and said to him, "To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will.

"Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine ,"

Exodus 19:5.

Was God lying when He said this?

Satan may be god of sinful practices but he is not the god of this earth or the things that are in it.

Even satan is subject to God's Authority. God owns satan.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

The devil did not "kill Jesus Christ" humans and their sin driven by the sinful nature killed Jesus Christ.

The devil worked through sinful, fallen humans to do his evil deeds. The Bible says that those who refuse Christ are under the power of the evil one:

You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. [John 8:44]

When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness [satan and his angels]. [Luke 22:53]

I never said that the Jewish leaders and satan did not have the same agenda. That is all John chapter eight is saying that the Jewish leaders and satan have the same agenda. It is not saying that the Jewish leaders are doing the bidding of satan. However, the Jewish leaders were doing what their "sinful nature" commanded them to do. Satan did not make the Jewish leaders do his bidding because he didn't need to nor could he force them to his bidding. The Jewish leaders did what came naturally to them.

"Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God’s set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men,[d] put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him."

Acts 2:22-24.

If you and I and the rest of humanity throughout history had not sinned then Jesus Christ would not have had to die for our sins. It is because of our sins and our sins only that Jesus Christ died on the Cross. You and I and the Jewish leaders etc. put Jesus Christ on the Cross.

Satan had no power or permission to put Jesus Christ on the Cross. Your text from Luke chapter 22 does not refer to satan and his angels. It refers to the darkness that fully enshrouds humanity and its sins. It was our sins that killed the Son of God, the Messiah, Jesus Christ, the God of all.

You cannot blame satan and his angels to get yourself and your sin off the hook. You and I and every other human are guilty to the max for killing Jesus Christ. We alone are guilty.

[Robert]

Satan may be god of sinful practices but he is not the god of this earth....

Both Paul and Christ disagree with you.

[Robert]

You cannot blame satan and his angels....

Satan placed that nature in them through Adam....He worked through that nature to murder Christ.

[Robert]

23 This man was handed over to you by God’s set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men,[d] put him to death by nailing him to the cross. Acts 2:22-24.

ESV 22 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know-- 23 this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.

Yes, but because of Satan. He is the father of sin.

[Robert]

"Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine" Exodus 19:5.

Was God lying when He said this?

No, God made the earth. It's His, but it's ruined by the fall. He doesn't want it back. In fact "the elements will burn and be dissolved". So God isn't interested in getting it back.

Having said that this doesn't mean that Satan isn't the God of this world. His principle is in everything. Do a word study on "the world".

John 15:19 GNT If you belonged to the world, then the world would love you as its own. But I chose you from this world, and you do not belong to it; that is why the world hates you.

1 John 2:5 Do not love the world or the things that belong to the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in him. 16 For everything that belongs to the world-the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride in one's lifestyle-is not from the Father, but is from the world.

Using man as his tool, Satan has developed a kingdom (the Bible refers to it as “the kingdom of this world”) that is based entirely on the principle of self and which is in complete opposition and contradiction to the “kingdom of heaven.” Everything, therefore, that goes to make up this worldly system (kosmos) — nationalism, tribalism, politics, education, commerce, recreation, sports, social clubs, technology, etc. — is founded upon the principle of love of self, even though at times this principle may not be obvious. According to 1 John2:16, “all that is in the world” (i.e., without exception) is based or founded upon lust (i.e., love of self).

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

Satan may be god of sinful practices but he is not the god of this earth....

Both Paul and Christ disagree with you.

Wrong, I have showed you the texts which say the opposite of what you are asserting.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

You cannot blame satan and his angels....

Satan placed that nature in them through Adam....He worked through that nature to murder Christ.

Not Biblical just your opinion. The Bible in the Book of Romans says that God put the "sinful nature" in us.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

23 This man was handed over to you by God’s set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men,[d] put him to death by nailing him to the cross. Acts 2:22-24.

ESV 22 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know-- 23 this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.

Yes, but because of Satan. He is the father of sin.

Even your translation does not say that it was because of satan but because of God's plan it came out to be. Satan had nothing to do with the Plan of Salvation. God did it all.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

"Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine" Exodus 19:5.

Was God lying when He said this?

No, God made the earth. It's His, but it's ruined by the fall. He doesn't want it back. In fact "the elements will burn and be dissolved". So God isn't interested in getting it back.

Having said that this doesn't mean that Satan isn't the God of this world. His principle is in everything. Do a word study on "the world".

John 15:19 GNT If you belonged to the world, then the world would love you as its own. But I chose you from this world, and you do not belong to it; that is why the world hates you.

1 John 2:5 Do not love the world or the things that belong to the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in him. 16 For everything that belongs to the world-the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride in one's lifestyle-is not from the Father, but is from the world.

Using man as his tool, Satan has developed a kingdom (the Bible refers to it as “the kingdom of this world”) that is based entirely on the principle of self and which is in complete opposition and contradiction to the “kingdom of heaven.” Everything, therefore, that goes to make up this worldly system (kosmos) — nationalism, tribalism, politics, education, commerce, recreation, sports, social clubs, technology, etc. — is founded upon the principle of love of self, even though at times this principle may not be obvious. According to 1 John2:16, “all that is in the world” (i.e., without exception) is based or founded upon lust (i.e., love of self).

[Robert]

...as you yourselves know-- 23 this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.

Even your translation does not say that it was because of satan but because of God's plan it came out to be.

God gave Jesus over...delivered Him up...handed Him over.

John 7:30 “Then they sought to take Him [Jesus]: but no man laid hands on Him, [John tells us why] because His hour was not yet come.”

In Luke 22:53, when Jesus was in Gethsemane, the priests brought the soldiers and they took Jesus captive as if He was a criminal. Listen to what Jesus tells them: “When I was daily with you in the temple, you stretched forth no hands against me: [we know why—his hour had not yet come] but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.”

This “power of darkness” is Satan. God abandoned Christ. This is the 2nd death.

Deut 31:17... I will forsake them and hide my face from them, and they will be devoured. And many evils and troubles will come upon them, so that they will say in that day, 'Have not these evils come upon us because our God is not among us?'

God "delivered up" Christ. He abandoned Him. That's why on the cross Jesus cried out, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?"

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

...as you yourselves know-- 23 this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.

Even your translation does not say that it was because of satan but because of God's plan it came out to be.

God gave Jesus over...delivered Him up...handed Him over.

John 7:30 “Then they sought to take Him [Jesus]: but no man laid hands on Him, [John tells us why] because His hour was not yet come.”

In Luke 22:53, when Jesus was in Gethsemane, the priests brought the soldiers and they took Jesus captive as if He was a criminal. Listen to what Jesus tells them: “When I was daily with you in the temple, you stretched forth no hands against me: [we know why—his hour had not yet come] but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.”

This “power of darkness” is Satan. God abandoned Christ. This is the 2nd death.

Deut 31:17... I will forsake them and hide my face from them, and they will be devoured. And many evils and troubles will come upon them, so that they will say in that day, 'Have not these evils come upon us because our God is not among us?'

God "delivered up" Christ. He abandoned Him. That's why on the cross Jesus cried out, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?"

No God did not deliver Jesus Christ up to satan. As we quoted in Acts chapter two Peter's words which state that God delivered Jesus Christ up to the Jewish Leaders and the wicked men (that is the Romans).

It never ever says that this "power of darkness" was satan. The "power of darkness" is just what Peter said it was, the Jews and the wicked Romans.

[Robert]

John 3:16 says that God "so loved the world". God would not Love something He did not want.

"The world" is not the planet. IT's the people.

John 3:6 For God so loved the world (let's let the Bible define "the world" that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Clearly "the world" here is the human race. Christ died for the human race, not the flowers...not the trees...not the animals...not the grass...not the fish...not the wheat fields...etc, He died for the human race.

Please try to use your mind when you make such nonsensical statements.

[Robert]

It never ever says that this "power of darkness" was satan. The "power of darkness" is just what Peter said it was, the Jews and the wicked Romans.

John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning , and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Keep in mind in the eyes of God's law murder is a cherished desire:

Matt 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.' 22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment....

Hate & anger begins in the mind. It's a secret desire. Lucifer hated Christ. He wanted His place. He was willing to murder Him and he did through the Roman and Jewish leaders.

[Robert]

The "power of darkness" is ...the Jews and the wicked Romans.

Acts 26:16 But rise and stand upon your feet, for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to appoint you as a servant and witness to the things in which you have seen me and to those in which I will appear to you, 17 delivering you from your people and from the Gentiles--to whom I am sending you 18 to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'

Note "darkness" refers to "the power of Satan". Hence the power of darkness.

Think it out.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

John 3:16 says that God "so loved the world". God would not Love something He did not want.

"The world" is not the planet. IT's the people.

John 3:6 For God so loved the world (let's let the Bible define "the world" that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Clearly "the world" here is the human race. Christ died for the human race, not the flowers...not the trees...not the animals...not the grass...not the fish...not the wheat fields...etc, He died for the human race.

Please try to use your mind when you make such nonsensical statements.

When God said in Exodus 19:5 that the whole earth was His what exactly did God mean?

It means the planet and everything in it.

Nothing is excluded. So when God says He loves the whole world it means that God Loves everything in it.

No one is saying that God sent Jesus Christ to die for anything but humans. However that does not mean that God gave up ownership of the world and everything in it.

Please read my words correctly. You are so easily confused.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

It never ever says that this "power of darkness" was satan. The "power of darkness" is just what Peter said it was, the Jews and the wicked Romans.

John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning , and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Keep in mind in the eyes of God's law murder is a cherished desire:

Matt 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.' 22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment....

Hate & anger begins in the mind. It's a secret desire. Lucifer hated Christ. He wanted His place. He was willing to murder Him and he did through the Roman and Jewish leaders.

Again you are confused. No one is saying that satan is not a power of darkness or that he is not a murder. Of course he is. However, satan is not the only power of darkness existent. Evil people (like the Jews and Romans) are also powers of darkness, godless philosophies are powers of darkness, etc.

Even your prophet states that satan loves it when people give him credit for all the evil things done and it creates greater fear of him. This is precisely what you are doing. You give satan tooo much credit.

Matthew chapter five states that hate and murder are sins. Yet the Bible clearly states as I have shown you already that God does murder, and God does hate.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

The "power of darkness" is ...the Jews and the wicked Romans.

Acts 26:16 But rise and stand upon your feet, for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to appoint you as a servant and witness to the things in which you have seen me and to those in which I will appear to you, 17 delivering you from your people and from the Gentiles--to whom I am sending you 18 to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'

Note "darkness" refers to "the power of Satan". Hence the power of darkness.

Think it out.

You think it out. Satan is not the only power of darkness in the world. If he were then you and I would not be guilty of sin. We could just say to God, "I couldn't help it satan made me do it".

We all know that won't wash. Satan doesn't always have something to do with our sin. We often sin without any help from satan. That is why we can never ever blame satan for our sin.

You really do need to think it out. You are soooo confused.

[Robert]

So when God says He loves the whole world it means that God Loves everything in it....

No, it says that God so loved the world that He sent Christ to die for it.....Again, Christ didn't die for this planet...He died for the human race. You really have a hard time with reasoning skills. Think!

[Robert]

Satan is not the only power of darkness in the world. If he were then you and I would not be guilty of sin. We could just say to God, "I couldn't help it satan made me do it".

Paul states, Rom 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. ... 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

Who plagued the human race with our bent to self (indwelling sin)? Not God! IF God did this then God would be tempting us to sin. But God's word states, Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God," for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. [James 1:13]

[Robert]

I have shown you already that God does murder, and God does hate.

No, He does not.

Tell me, where did God kill Saul in the following:

1 Sam 31:1 Now the Philistines fought against Israel; the Israelites fled before them, and many fell slain on Mount Gilboa. 2 The Philistines pressed hard after Saul and his sons, and they killed his sons Jonathan, Abinadab and Malki-Shua. 3 The fighting grew fierce around Saul, and when the archers overtook him, they wounded him critically. 4 Saul said to his armor-bearer, "Draw your sword and run me through, or these uncircumcised fellows will come and run me through and abuse me." But his armor-bearer was terrified and would not do it; so Saul took his own sword and fell on it. 5 When the armor-bearer saw that Saul was dead, he too fell on his sword and died with him. 6 So Saul and his three sons and his armor-bearer and all his men died together that same day.

Where, in the above, did God kill Saul?

Did you know that God said that He killed Saul?

So Saul died for his unfaithfulness which he had committed against the Lord, because he did not keep the word of the Lord, and also because he consulted a medium for guidance, but he did not inquire of the Lord; therefore, He [God] killed him , and turned the kingdom over to David, the son of Jesse (1 Chron. 10:13, 14).

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

So when God says He loves the whole world it means that God Loves everything in it....

No, it says that God so loved the world that He sent Christ to die for it.....Again, Christ didn't die for this planet...He died for the human race. You really have a hard time with reasoning skills. Think!

Grow up Robert and discuss like an adult.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

Satan is not the only power of darkness in the world. If he were then you and I would not be guilty of sin. We could just say to God, "I couldn't help it satan made me do it".

Paul states, Rom 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. ... 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

Who plagued the human race with our bent to self (indwelling sin)? Not God! IF God did this then God would be tempting us to sin. But God's word states, Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God," for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. [James 1:13]

Robert, talk about jibberish and tortured logic. You have it bad. I can only discuss when people are coherent.