Should Christians Celebrate the Feast days?

[ClubV12]

LynnDel, there are about a 170 "PH" written counsels. I don't know WHAT "PH" stands for. In most cases a "PH" is essentially a letter written to someone. Often a group of someones, like the leaders in the church. Sometimes with instructions to put said letter or counsel into a "tract" form and circulate it to the churches. Sometimes a "PH" is selected Testimonies from various sources. MUCH of what appears in any given "PH" can also be found in other published works. Like the Testimonies, the Conflict Series, articles in the Review or other magazines or tracts of the time.

Whew, what a prolific writer she was. You can see her concern at times when she is traveling and feels the need to get somewhere where she can write again. It was beyond a passion, it was her reason for living, to write, above all else. Sometimes she didn't want to attend camp meetings or be distracted by preaching or teaching, her writing would far out live any work she could do in the moment, in her life time. She was writing FOR US and for all who would come after she was gone. Once she was very sick, unable to stand, in great pain, her left hand useless, but her right arm was fine. The Lord sustained her ability to write! Sometimes she would have to hold the pen with two hands, but write she did. For us. I am SO thankful to the Lord for this gift through His servant, Ellen White.

[cheddar]

Whew, what a prolific writer she was. You can see her concern at times when she is traveling and feels the need to get somewhere where she can write again. It was beyond a passion, it was her reason for living, to write, above all else. Sometimes she didn't want to attend camp meetings or be distracted by preaching or teaching, her writing would far out live any work she could do in the moment, in her life time. She was writing FOR US and for all who would come after she was gone. Once she was very sick, unable to stand, in great pain, her left hand useless, but her right arm was fine. The Lord sustained her ability to write! Sometimes she would have to hold the pen with two hands, but write she did. For us. I am SO thankful to the Lord for this gift through His servant, Ellen White.

Get a room!

[ClubV12]

"The Testimonies of the Spirit of God are given to direct men to His Word, which has been neglected. Now if their messages are not heeded, the Holy Spirit is shut away from the soul. What further means has God in reserve to reach the erring ones, and show them their true condition?"

Notebook Leaflets from the Elmshaven Library, Volume 1. 1985; 2002 (67)

Solem warning...

[John317]

LynnDel, there are about a 170 "PH" written counsels. I don't know WHAT "PH" stands for. In most cases a "PH" is essentially a letter written to someone.

PH stands for "Pamphlets."

[Windsor]

Ellen White said that old Jerusalem would never be built up again and in 1948 it was! You don't see a contradiction in that.

As to the churches position back then I don't know - others are history experts not me but I bet it looked like they had egg on their face.

Where is your proof that old Jerusalem was built up in 1948? The state of Israel was founded in 1948 and West Jerusalem was annexed. What exactly does she even mean by that comment for even in her time so called old Jerusalem existed which was mainly an Ottoman phenomenon from many centuries earlier. Most of Biblical Jerusalem is occupied by Muslims (Muslim Quarter) and Christians (Christian and Armenian Quarter) to this day, even what many (but not all) believe to be the Temple Mount.

[cheddar]

My proof is common knowledge. Jerusalem is more ‘built up’ today then at any point since it was destroyed. If we take Dan. 11:45 at face value it’s going to built up even further before it’s all said and done. Unlike most I don’t write someone off for one statement and I understand the context behind the statement – She was just discouraging people from going to Jerusalem. Jesus taught the Jews to keep the law for thousands of years and then when he showed up in person he said ‘just believe in me’ and don’t worry about that old law anymore. So God talks out of both sides of his mouth too.

[Ron Amnsn]

Well Ron what we have here with your statement regarding the church quit preaching "something", it remains unclear exactly what, in 1948 is essentially a "rumor" passed down by a family member. With no supporting documentation. No disrespect to Grandma implied, I was just looking for facts, something of substance, direct evidence. Bless her heart, I'm sure she thought she understood what you think she said, or meant to imply, or something like that....

I've quite familiar with the Early Writings quote, I don't see a connection with that and the churches position changing in some way in 1948 though.

[Ron Amnsn]

Here's what Eld. Elon Galusha was teaching in 1844.

Quote:

I became satisfied,

1. That there never will be a restoration of the carnal Jews, as a nation, either to the favor of God or the land of Canaan, since they, as a people, are as utterly rejected as Hagar or Ishmael.

(The Advent Herald, and Signs of the Times Reporter , Vol. 7 #10 April 10, 1844) Found here in the Adventist Pioneer Library

[Gustave]

My proof is common knowledge. Jerusalem is more ‘built up’ today then at any point since it was destroyed. If we take Dan. 11:45 at face value it’s going to built up even further before it’s all said and done. Unlike most I don’t write someone off for one statement and I understand the context behind the statement – She was just discouraging people from going to Jerusalem. Jesus taught the Jews to keep the law for thousands of years and then when he showed up in person he said ‘just believe in me’ and don’t worry about that old law anymore. So God talks out of both sides of his mouth too.

To add to that Israel today has the military might it previously lacked...

...One simply would only need to read the facts of the 6th day war.

...To realize Israel has already bested the powers which in Scripture were always against it.

Israel has greatly been 'built up'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

[Windsor]

Old Jerusalem is as Muslim now as it ever was. Bear in mind from the context that she isn't talking about building up of apartments and houses, etc. She's talking about conversions.

[Ron Amnsn]

Please do share with me, Ron Amnsn, how you differ with what she has said above.

[Ron Amnsn]

Old Jerusalem is as Muslim now as it ever was.

[phkrause]

I don't believe she meant the actual building up of Jerusalem, it was never knocked down. And I'm pretty sure she didn't meant conversion's either. When you say conversion's, I guess I should ask first, what do you mean? Conversion to Judaism? Adventisim? As Ron has mentioned, there are many Jews converting to SDA. And as far as Jews going out to convert people to Judaism, they don't do that. They have no problem with people wanting to convert but they don't go out of there way to evangelize. I believe she means that Jerusalem and the Jewish people are no longer God's people as a whole.

[Windsor]

"Then I was pointed to some who are in the great error of believing that it is their duty to go to Old Jerusalem, and think they have a work to do there before the Lord comes. Such a view is calculated to take the mind and interest from the present work of the Lord, under the message of the third angel. For those who think that they are yet to go to Jerusalem, will have their minds there, and their means will be withheld from the cause of present truth, to get themselves and others to Jerusalem. I saw that such a mission would accomplish no real good. That it would take a long while to make a very few of the Jews believe even in the first ‘Advent of Christ,’ much more, to believe in his second Advent. I saw that Satan had greatly deceived some in this thing, and that souls, all around them, in this land, could be helped by them, and led to keep the commandments of God; but they were leaving them to perish. I also saw that Old Jerusalem never would be built up; and that Satan was doing his utmost to lead the minds of the children of the Lord into these things now, in the gathering time, to keep them from throwing their whole interest into the present work of the Lord, and to cause them to neglect the necessary preparation for the day of the Lord."

Notice that this whole quote is a discussion warning people from going to Israel because of the very few Jews who would become Christian let alone Adventist. Adventists in Israel today still don't even number 1000.

The number of native Jewish converts to Christianity in Israel is extremely small just as Ellen White was told. "Just over 80% of Christians are Arabs, and the majority of the remaining are immigrants from the former Soviet Union who immigrated with a Jewish relative. About 81% of Christian births are to Arab women." (wiki)

[ClubV12]

Even today the Jews do not control the old temple mount area. The temple itself remains a Mosque, where Jew and Christian alike are not permitted to pray. In most cases MUSLIMS can!!! But there are times when political tensions are so great that even Muslims are forbidden to pray there.

This is WHY the Jews pray at the old Western Wall, it as close as they can legally get to the Temple. It has not and will not be "built up" again.

Nothing has changed in the preaching from the pioneers to today on this issue.

[Ron Amnsn]

Notice that this whole quote is a discussion warning people from going to Israel because of the very few Jews who would become Christian let alone Adventist. Adventists in Israel today still don't even number 1000.

The number of native Jewish converts to Christianity in Israel is extremely small just as Ellen White was told. "Just over 80% of Christians are Arabs, and the majority of the remaining are immigrants from the former Soviet Union who immigrated with a Jewish relative. About 81% of Christian births are to Arab women." (wiki)

At the time EGW wrote the statement in 1851, were there any places anywhere that had 1000 Adventists in an area the size of Israel? At that time such an area would have been rare. A thousand may not seem like many Adventists for those of you who currently live in an Adventist area, but at the time EGW wrote it would certainly not have been considered "few". If EGW really meant "built up" to refer to the size of the church, the church in Israel would now be "built up" by 1851 standards. Where I live, there probably aren't 1000 Adventists within an area equivalent to the size of Israel.

So if I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that Jerusalem is and was primarily Muslim, but EGW was telling people to not go to Old Jerusalem because few Jews would be converted. Do you know why EGW doesn't mention the Arabs?

[ClubV12]

She counseled on many different places where we should and shouldn't invest our time and energy. At one point she said we need to move workers to the West Coast as the East Coast had become more difficult to reach the people. But she didn't mean abandon the East Coast, far from it, she was directing where limited means should go. She made a call for more support for the South as well. And in Australia. There would be limited returns on an investment in Israel, not just her time but even today! There will be limited returns in New York City compared to areas where few if any Adventists live. "ROI" as investors call it, "return on investment". Not wanting to make the Lords work a simple math equation based on ROI, but it is factor that can't be ignored. We still do that today. Holding an evangelistic meeting cost a lot of money! Whats the ROI in terms of baptism? Well it's worth it if even ONE soul is saved? Easy to say, but with limited funds we need to be good stewards and work in areas where more than one can be reached.

[Gibs]

I just would like to see scripture to show that more than the ceremonial laws and ordinaces were done away at the cross. Everone seems so certain but no scripture. EGW did say this though and I think she was such a loner on this deal she didn't go no further.

"At these yearly assemblies the hearts of old and young would be encouraged in the service of God, while the association of the people from the different quarters of the land would strengthen the ties that bound them to God and to one another. Well would it be for the people of God at the present time to have a Feast of Tabernacles--a joyous commemoration of the blessings of God to them. As the children of Israel celebrated the deliverance that God had wrought for their fathers, and His miraculous preservation of them during their journeyings from Egypt, so should we gratefully call to mind the various ways He has devised for bringing us out from the world, and from the darkness of error, into the precious light of His grace and truth. {PP 540.6}

I do know it was the time of Christ's Birth.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Lysimachus]

Ellen White said that old Jerusalem would never be built up again and in 1948 it was! You don't see a contradiction in that.

As to the churches position back then I don't know - others are history experts not me but I bet it looked like they had egg on their face.

You speak from ignorance. Ellen White's expression "built up" was not talking about building up Jerusalem physically, but spiritually. In other words, restoring it back to God's kingdom.

The evidence that this is what she meant when she used the term is quite revealing:

http://www.pickle-publishing.com/papers/jeremiah-films/response-to-video-30.htm

This argument has been demolished.

It is pretty frightening and saddening at times to see how you critics are always rehashing old outdated arguments that have been long-refuted, as if they are some new revelation that aids your cause! When you throw out and regurgitate outdated arguments like this, it is very revealing concerning your true character and just how much you really want to do what is right. A true honest seeker would first do their homework and look for answers on the web before concluding the soundness of an accusation. But those who are not seeking for truth, and already have predisposed predilections and bias against something because they don't like something, will hold on to an accusation and will do everything in their power to avoid having to face the fact that there may be sound answers to their accusation. Therefore, they willfully ignore the data that goes against their carnal wishes, and do everything in their power to avoid searching for answers that might satisfactorily, yet uncomfortably address their erroneous, outlandish criticisms.

This is just ONE TINY example of the answers you will find out there. Virtually every criticism made against Ellen White has been satisfactorily REFUTED. It only takes a little digging in a number of sound Adventist apologetics websites.

[ClubV12]

Ellen White says,

"Well would it be for the people of God at the present time to have a Feast of Tabernacles--a joyous commemoration of the blessings of God to them."

Bravo!!! I think thats a wonderful idea. I certainly won't make it a test for anybody, but it would be a great time to come together and celebrate the victories the Lord has given His people.

[Lysimachus]

Quote:

"Notwithstanding the awful doom pronounced upon the Jews as a nation at the time of their rejection of Jesus of Nazareth,

Where does EGW find the "awful doom pronounced upon the Jews"? I think it comes from the common teachings of her day, rather than from Scripture.

Matthew

23:33 [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and [some] of them ye shall kill and crucify; and [some] of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute [them] from city to city:

23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not!

23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Last time I checked, the above is a doom pronounced on the nation of Israel. She most certainly got it from Scripture.

I know that you will try to rationalize away this passage to say "It doesn't say the nation of Israel". I'm sorry you cannot see it, but only those who can spiritually discern what Jesus said will know this to be true.

[Windsor]

Ellen White says,

"Well would it be for the people of God at the present time to have a Feast of Tabernacles--a joyous commemoration of the blessings of God to them."

Bravo!!! I think thats a wonderful idea. I certainly won't make it a test for anybody, but it would be a great time to come together and celebrate the victories the Lord has given His people.

I'm planning on doing that November 24 this year. I do so the last Thursday of November every year.

[Aliensanctuary]

So, are the campmeetings held by many Christian denominations a spin-off of the Feast of Tabernacles?

[cheddar]

Originally Posted By: cheddar

Ellen White said that old Jerusalem would never be built up again and in 1948 it was! You don't see a contradiction in that.

As to the churches position back then I don't know - others are history experts not me but I bet it looked like they had egg on their face.

You speak from ignorance. Ellen White's expression "built up" was not talking about building up Jerusalem physically, but spiritually. In other words, restoring it back to God's kingdom.

The evidence that this is what she meant when she used the term is quite revealing:

http://www.pickle-publishing.com/papers/jeremiah-films/response-to-video-30.htm

This argument has been demolished.

It is pretty frightening and saddening at times to see how you critics are always rehashing old outdated arguments that have been long-refuted, as if they are some new revelation that aids your cause! When you throw out and regurgitate outdated arguments like this, it is very revealing concerning your true character and just how much you really want to do what is right. A true honest seeker would first do their homework and look for answers on the web before concluding the soundness of an accusation. But those who are not seeking for truth, and already have predisposed predilections and bias against something because they don't like something, will hold on to an accusation and will do everything in their power to avoid having to face the fact that there may be sound answers to their accusation. Therefore, they willfully ignore the data that goes against their carnal wishes, and do everything in their power to avoid searching for answers that might satisfactorily, yet uncomfortably address their erroneous, outlandish criticisms.

This is just ONE TINY example of the answers you will find out there. Virtually every criticism made against Ellen White has been satisfactorily REFUTED. It only takes a little digging in a number of sound Adventist apologetics websites.

Anyone with half a brain can see that Ellen White is referring to ‘old Jerusalem’ as a place. She begins by urging people not to go to ‘old Jerusalem’ (the place) and finishes by saying that ‘old Jerusalem’ (the place) will never be built up. This isn’t Daniel and Revelation where you can play the literal and spiritual game. So for you to try and make this into spiritual Jerusalem is so sad and just shows your complete and total bias for all things Ellen White. You’re no different than the Catholics you claim to oppose. They claim infallibility for the pope and you claim it for Ellen White.

This wasn’t the first mistake that Ellen White made. Believe me, she made far greater ones. Haven’t you ever wondered why Jesus gave the 3rd angel’s message to Jones and Waggoner and not her? Here was the great prophet with all the visions and revelations and God completely bypasses her and gives the holy gospel to someone else. That must have been so embarrassing for her (talk about egg on your face!). Ellen White could never see past her own work and effort and merit points (kind of like you). Jesus could never allow the holy gospel to be polluted by those things so he chose someone else.

The Jews exalted the Law and Moses and when Jesus came along they hated him and his gospel. Adventists exalt the Law and Ellen White and hate the 1888 message as much today as they did back then. History has a funny way of repeating itself. If you really wanted to be faithful to Ellen White you should do what she did – suck up your pride, admit what a horrible sinner you are and let the true gospel change you from the inside. Merit badges belong in the boy scouts not Christianity.

[ClubV12]

I guess you don't realize Sister White had been preaching righteouness by faith for 50 years before Jones and Wagoneer came on the scene? Sister White was not the only one to whom God gave divine revelations, visions, dreams and inspiration.

Seem's kind of silly to limit God to whom He can and can't use to reach His people with a message.

The most frustrating thing the Jews face is the hard fact that they DON'T control the Temple Mount, "old Jersusalem" in my book. They will stop at nothing to secure it for themselves, but that will never happen.