Moderators Bravus Posted November 21, 2011 Author Moderators Posted November 21, 2011 Conservatives are conservative with other conservatives... Can we wrap this digression up now and post it off to the Politics forum? Truth is important
Stan Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 thanks everyone for the discussion... close this, if there is anyone does not have access to the political forums please let me know.. If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
Moderators John317 Posted November 21, 2011 Moderators Posted November 21, 2011 I know. I'm wrong about everything... No, of course you are not wrong about everything, Bravus. I believe you say a great deal that is absolutely true. For instance, I agree with your statement, "I also believe God created the universe." We agree that God created the universe, but I we don't agree on how God created life on this planet. And the "how" is all-important. If I'm not mistaken, you firmly believe God created humans (and all other life-forms) by means of evolutionary process that took place over many millions of years. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Stan Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 This is open for business again.... Please keep it on topic... and respect that others may differ. If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
BobRyan Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Beyond that, I guess if a label is needed 'humanist' is as good as any. (And no, that *doesn't* mean 'atheist' - do some reading if necessary.) . Sounds fair to me. What about "materialist" in the scientific sense - assuming that all thought and intent of the heart boils down to nothing more than "atoms" -- matter interacting with matter. in Christ, Bob John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
CoAspen Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Quote: I believe in God, but a God that is truly infinite. Given that, any knowledge we can have of God is a vanishingly tiny fraction of God's full reality. As such it makes no sense at all to be arrogant or to claim that our understanding is 'better' or 'truer' than someone else's knowledge of God. Rather, in humility, we should seek God. I also believe God created the universe and is immanent and transcendent, within, through and greater than the universe. As such, the universe is one revelation of God: and we are further limiting our understanding of God if we bind our understanding of the universe to our limited understanding of the limited understanding of God portrayed in the Bible. End Quote I have no problem with that view of God!! thumbsup That is my one big issue with any 'religion', limiting God to their viewpoint. Why should anyone 'label' you or anyone else? A waste of time merely meant to differentiate the labeler from that 'other' person, at least when done in the religious context. I will say again, Bravus is being honest about his journey, baring all and suffering the slings and arrows of others. I have nothing but total respect for him and applaud. We are all on a journey and questioning our direction and path should be a daily thought. The Church, EGW, nor anyone else is to make a decision for us, that is entirely in the Hands/Holy Spirit of God. I am ashamed of some of the tactics used to convince him of his 'wrongness', very much the old fear tactic, fire and brimstone if you don't follow a certain view point and all those view points are from the Bible, regardless of the individual and their journey!!
Moderators Bravus Posted November 21, 2011 Author Moderators Posted November 21, 2011 Originally Posted By: Bravus Beyond that, I guess if a label is needed 'humanist' is as good as any. (And no, that *doesn't* mean 'atheist' - do some reading if necessary.) . What about "materialist" in the scientific sense - assuming that all thought and intent of the heart boils down to nothing more than "atoms" -- matter interacting with matter. Nup. I believe in God, and that God created the universe. God is not material. Truth is important
ClubV12 Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 I will say again, Seventh-day Avdventists on this board also suffer the slings and arrows of others. I am ashamed of those who insist on attacking their beliefs. Those who support the church have my utmost respect for expressing their views and consistently being called "church defenders" and cowards behind the keyboard and treated like they are egotistical. Shame on you who attack them without mercy, forum after forum, thread after thread. Simply because they don't believe like other more popular, more politically correct and acceptable worldly views. Bravus your view of Gods creation of this earth is not in any way aligned with Seventh-day Adventists. It is a worldy, evolution based concept. OK, where is the applaud and congratulations for my being honest and speaking up clearly for what I believe???? ....the silence is deafening.... For those that don't accept "fire and brimstone" I will not be intimidated into silence for my beliefs. Go bully someone else.
M. T. Cross Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 I will say again, Seventh-day Avdventists on this board also suffer the slings and arrows of others. I am ashamed of those who insist on attacking their beliefs. Those who support the church have my utmost respect for expressing their views and consistently being called "church defenders" and cowards behind the keyboard and treated like they are egotistical. Shame on you who attack them without mercy, forum after forum, thread after thread. Simply because they don't believe like other more popular, more politically correct and acceptable worldly views. Bravus your view of Gods creation of this earth is not in any way aligned with Seventh-day Adventists. It is a worldy, evolution based concept. OK, where is the applaud and congratulations for my being honest and speaking up clearly for what I believe???? ....the silence is deafening.... For those that don't accept "fire and brimstone" I will not be intimidated into silence for my beliefs. Go bully someone else. By all means Club - youshould be just as able to state your beliefs. What I think you have wrong though is that very few are slining arrows at you for your beliefs. I would not say you are WRONG and that you will be LOST for what you believe. As a matter of fact I once started a thread wondering why more Adventists don't celebrate their truth if they are so convinced in it! Nothing in this thread that I have read has been trying to tell any adventist that they should change their point of view. Just pointing out that there is a different view shared by some. If you want applause - thats your EGO talking. Its a bit silly to need that kind of validation. Its like going to a bands website and expecting that you be applauded for saying you like the band. Its kinda a given that most are going to support the thing the site is about.
Moderators Bravus Posted November 21, 2011 Author Moderators Posted November 21, 2011 This is potentially going to sound smug or something, but it's not meant to. I think some of those who have said positive things about me have said them about me, more than about my ideas. I've been posting on this forum for about 7 years, and people know my character and demeanor. I appreciate their kindness and appreciation, but to some extent I have earned their friendship by showing myself friendly and by the way I've been deporting myself on the forum. I don't think my friends here agree with me - but that's OK, I don't need my friends to agree with me. They know me, and trust that I will be honest and kind, and that my search is sincere. I suspect that is some of what is going on... it's not always just about the correctness of propositions. Truth is important
Moderators John317 Posted November 21, 2011 Moderators Posted November 21, 2011 ... I believe in God, and that God created the universe. God is not material. You believe in the Trinity, right? That there are three Persons in the Godhead--the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? Jesus Christ is fully God, and of course, He is material. He was literally and physically resurrected. I believe the Holy Spirit is immaterial, but I believe the Bible teaches that the Father has a form. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
ClubV12 Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 I think where you are wrong, Emptycross, is that I don't see anybody slinging stones and arrows at you either, or Bravus.
M. T. Cross Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Ok, I never expected you would see it. Thats ok though. Self Honesty comes in time.
ClubV12 Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 I never expected YOU would see it either!!!! Delusions are not easily dismissed once you start down that path, Emptycross. ...tag, your it.
M. T. Cross Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 We could do this all day Club. It would lead nowhere positive. I apologize for the self honesty comment. It was snarky and did not need to be posted. I wish you nothing but peace guy.
Overaged Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 I believe in God, and that God created the universe. Bravus! I keep finding these little nuggets which we are BOTH in agreement on! Miracles never cease, eh? I would be curious to know what makes you think/believe this? Is there one thing in particular that you could point to which convinces you of this? "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ
Overaged Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 We could do this all day Club. It would lead nowhere positive. I apologize for the self honesty comment. It was snarky and did not need to be posted. I wish you nothing but peace guy. Boy; I would get myself into a lot less trouble online if I could learn from you and apologize when needed like this... GBU EC "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ
Pockey Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Well if it does happen you can probably count on us pagans and heathens to be on your side as we really hate the law telling people what they can and can't believe. Right on. I like your self-deprecating humor, although I don't consider you a pagan or heathen...and I believe you about your stand on the Sunday Law if that day were to come during our lifetime. I plan on being right there with you during that battle. But the war has already begun, and we need someone like you now...
Overaged Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ
Kountzer Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 The sabbath is biblically sound, so is the spirit of prophecy, as manifested in the writings of Ellen G White. We are not wrestling against flesh & blood. I believe the adversary influences people to agitate against the church on these issues because he knows this is the true church. I don't see another church that is more biblically sound than the sda church. I've been watching for years, decades even. Another, more biblical church doesn't exist. This is it. I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass
Twilight II Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Another, more biblical church doesn't exist. This is it. Indeed.
miz3 Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 The sabbath is biblically sound, so is the spirit of prophecy, as manifested in the writings of Ellen G White. We are not wrestling against flesh & blood. I believe the adversary influences people to agitate against the church on these issues because he knows this is the true church. I don't see another church that is more biblically sound than the sda church. I've been watching for years, decades even. Another, more biblical church doesn't exist. This is it. Focusing on the highlighted statement above I agree that SDA are the closest to Bible correctness of any other .org. Having said that does not change the fact that SDA love Ellen White and her writings more than they love the Bible. The proof is in what they quote most often.
miz3 Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Without Ellen White and her writings a number of SDA Doctrines could never ever be sustained by using the Bible and the Bible only. This is simply just a FACT.
ClubV12 Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Not a fact, it's a theory. There is not a single fundamental belief that requires Ellen White to sustain it. EVERY ONE is supported by the bible and the bible alone. Which is why Adventists are known as a "people of the book", not "people of a prophet".
Moderators John317 Posted November 21, 2011 Moderators Posted November 21, 2011 Without Ellen White and her writings a number of SDA Doctrines could never ever be sustained by using the Bible and the Bible only. This is simply just a FACT. Which ones do you think they are? John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Recommended Posts