Is The Holy Spirit Being Withdrawn?

[Gibs]

IS the Holy Spirit being withdrawn and what is causing it?

Will a form of Christianity be continued by those it has been withdrawn from?

What must we do that His Spirit is not withdrawn from us?

Just a voicing what you see on this as some believe it is being withdrawn and some may feel we are getting the latter rain, what do you see?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gerr]

ESV | Joel 2:28 “And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions.

ESV | Ac 2:17 “ ‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;"

[Gibs]

What then is the cause of the world going so wickedly now?

:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[BobRyan]

2Tim 3:1-5 "in the last days difficult times will come"

1Tim 4:1-2 "in the last days " men adopt doctrines of demons

2Thess 2 - "He who now restrains (evil) will be taken out of the way".

The Holy Spirit is being withdrawn from the wicked as person by person they choose to "quench the Spirit" 1Thess 5, to attribute to the devil - the work of the Holy Spirit (Matt 12) and to devote themselves to evil despite the warning judgments of God Rev 9:20-21.

At the same time the Holy Spirit is poured out upon the saints and new doors of evangelism are being opened for those who have not yet blinded their own soul to the Spirit's promptings.

And for center-of-the-road SDAs we have

Quote:

The restraining Spirit of God is even now being withdrawn from the world. Hurricanes, storms, tempests, fire and flood, disasters by sea and land, follow each other in quick succession. Science seeks to explain all these. The signs thickening around us, telling of the near approach of the Son of God, are attributed to any other than the true cause. Men cannot discern the sentinel angels restraining the four winds that they shall not blow until the servants of God are sealed; but when God shall bid His angels loose the winds, there shall be such a scene of strife as no pen can picture.—Testimonies for the Church 6:408. {ChS 52.1}

The days in which we live are solemn and important. The Spirit of God is gradually but surely being withdrawn from the earth. Plagues and judgments are already falling upon the despisers of the grace of God. The calamities by land and sea, the unsettled state of society, the alarms of war, are portentous. They forecast approaching events of the greatest magnitude. The agencies of evil are combining their forces, and consolidating. They are strengthening for the last great crisis. Great changes are soon to take place in our world, and the final movements will be rapid ones.—Testimonies for the Church 9:11. {ChS 52.2}

The time is at hand when there will be sorrow in the world that no human balm can heal. The Spirit of God is being withdrawn. Disasters by sea and by land follow one another in quick succession. How frequently we hear of earthquakes and tornadoes, of destruction by fire and flood, with great loss of life and property! Apparently these calamities are capricious outbreaks of disorganized, unregulated forces of nature, wholly beyond the control of man; but in them all, God’s purpose may be read. They are among the agencies by which He seeks to arouse men and women to a sense of their danger.—Prophets and Kings, 277. {ChS 52.3}

in Christ,

Bob

[Gibs]

OK, now do the ones whom the Holy Spirit has left know it? How come they don't? They have a lot of zeal, where does it come from and yet they claim to be of God?

I have a question of the center of the road SDA's a little later, I see I should only put out one at a time.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world

[Gerr]

ESV | ‎Re 18:1 After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was made bright with his glory.

[olger]

Might be.

[ClubV12]

How do we know? Thats a deep question I've been studying for the last couple of months. It ties in to SO many aspects of life!

How do we know our prayers are being heard? How do we know what to pray for? How do we know our life decisions are in harmony with God's will? How do we know where and when we should be at any given time? Knowing where your supposed to be, I've come to believe, is very important. In some cases you just KNOW where you shouldn't be and when! Do you know where you should be and when?

Principles!!! Thats how. Biblical principles we gather and learn from all the stories, counsel and history lessons of the bible. Principles we learn from the Spirit of Prophecy. Living up to the light you are convicted of is the most powerful principle. You cannot expect to receive greater light if you are rejecting past or present light. Example: There is much I read about the health message, I believe it, I know it's the truth, I also apply the PRINCIPLE of not moving to fast incorporating ALL that in my daily life. I am making steady progress toward those goals. WHEN is it time to stop using dairy products for instance (disease and other issues)? The principle I applied to that was realizing that God has provided alternatives. Soy milk for instance. And other products that make it easy to follow the counsel. Coffee was a HUGE problem for me. My first cup of Pero was awful!!! Now, I actually like the stuff and feel SO MUCH better getting off coffee.

These principles apply in every aspect of life. Sister White gives detail after detail of the "blue print". For the location of the "goal posts" I stopped looking at people, I look to the counsel to find the goal. To GET to the goal I'm thankful for God's people offering practical advice on how to cook, live, change.

The Holy Spirit works through MANY different methods, MOST of the time, down to earth, practical, logical, reasonable rubber meets the road methods. We HAVE the counsel, we HAVE the technology, we CAN do this! God works with man, we have our part, our determination must be brought to bear on these subjects. Fall down, get up, dust yourself off and continue toward the goal.

If you HAVE rejected some portion of the light, stubbornly refused to see it, any "new light" you think you have will assuredly be from the evil one!!! A delusion is such that you will never know it came, if you did, it wouldn't BE a delusion! The Holy Spirit is not some "feeling", some singular interpretation of scripture that you and you alone see. It is the counsel of the brethren, the church, the Spirit of Prophecy that brings understanding to the word.

Ignore the principals of correct biblical interpretation and it is sure you are in a delusion, and you won't even know it.

[Gibs]

There is a way I do believe to know If we are not of another Spirit. It is a very sore subject here. The whole world of Christianity I find are falling into it.

We are at the time when it is of the utmost importance that we know we have found that strait and narrow gate and way. Going through it takes off all the worldlyness out of one and gives him the strength of putting sin in the past. The Divine Nature Must be put on and the old sinful nature of the flesh crucified. We must and can now walk by that indwelling Spirit, Christ in you and you walk as He walked unless you put him out by not giving in your will to do His will continually. How much do we love him, is it enough to die of self and and take His proffered, offered, nature and do His will?

Those of you who receive EGW please read this,

"Will man take hold of divine power, and with determination and perseverance resist Satan, as Christ has given him example in His conflict with the foe in the wilderness of temptation? God cannot save man against his will from the power of Satan’s artifices. Man must work with his human power, aided by the divine power of Christ, to resist and to conquer at any cost to himself. In short, man must overcome as Christ overcame. And then, through the victory that it is his privilege to gain by the all-powerful name of Jesus, he may become an heir of God and joint-heir with Jesus Christ. This could not be the case if Christ alone did all the overcoming. Man must do his part; he must be victor on his own account, through the strength and grace that Christ gives him. Man must be a co-worker with Christ in the labor of overcoming, and then he will be partaker with Christ in His glory". {OFC 28.3}

This is the question I would ask of those who are "center of the road SDA's".

How do you stand on that above? Must we continue in sin? Paul said not.

Ro 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Ro 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

The saving faith is that we know that He, Jesus dwelling within we are victors over the world, Satan and sin. Like old HMS Richards always would say at the end of each sermon, "Lets have faith in God dear friends, lets have faith". That is the faith that must be had, but it requires death of self, total death of self.

There just is no other way and He says, walk ye in it.

Yes then we can keep the commandments with no trouble.

2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

One of my favorite verses,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

I have a very dear friend in my local church, a life long Adventist of advanced age. An excellent and impressive bible scholar. A mentor to me in my early Adventist experience. As we drew close he began to reveal things to me concerning prophecy that he never spoke of in or around church. Things that were whispered, exciting, mentally stimulating, wonderful things. One of those things was about how the day for a year principle was wrong. How certain segments of the 2,300 year prophecy applied to the future. His logic and reasoning were apparently very sound. I was greatly confused but there was no one to whom I could turn to discuss these issues. I couldn't find a single person within the church, that I felt comfortable talking to, about this conundrum. Those I DID feel comfortable with, even though life long Adventists and bible scholars did NOT understand Daniel and Revelation enough to be of help. This was something I had to do on my own, with much prayer. Working with a man I greatly respected and my elder who deserved my respect for his position in life. It was not easy telling him he was wrong, terribly wrong. As I began to see it more clearly the path of error did not lay close to the path of truth at all. They were widely separated.

My mentor confided that he could not speak of these things in church, others who had, had either left the church or been disfellowshiped. These issues had been reviewed by the GC who dimissed them. When he told me he thought the GC was wrong, a chill went up my spine. It was then I realized, there was no longer any doubt, the poor man was in a delusion. Had been for years. He would not be moved, there was nothing more to say, for either of us. We remain friends and I do what I can to show him my love. Every once in awhile the subject comes up and I have to remind him, he's wrong. NOT that I disagree, stronger than that, bless his heart he is wrong, DEAD wrong, seriously wrong. It is not an easy thing to deal with.

Brother Gib's I see the same theology in what you present. I HAVE studied these issues, in depth and pleading with God for wisdom. I know where you are coming from with this false theology Brother. I have seen this delusion before. I fear it is an irrevisable condition for those who have for so long been given such great light. What now can be done to reach them? I pray that one day I will not find myself in the same position, questioning the foundation of our beliefs. Seeking some new, exciting, stimulating "new light" to amaze my friends. This is a problem of pride, somewhere along the line, "self" did not die, it grew stronger. Until all the counsel of those around you were ignored and you were left.... standing alone and proud to say so.

[John317]

[Gibs]

ClubV12,

Your counsel is to follow the denomination regardless of what they teach and that isn't who we are to follow.

We must follow only the one true guide, Jesus Christ and Him only.

Especially on the salvation issue is the teaching all wrong today, it is no different than what I witness against from thoae in the Sunday churches, basically it is just believe and you are saved.

That is not true, the devils believe and tremble and so do men but will not take up His Divine Nature and take hold of being an overcomer. All that will ever be in Heaven will be overcomers as He was on this earth. He came as one of us taking our sinful flesh and overcome the same as we must. He took no power but what we can havee to overcome. He in us is the same power He had with the Father in Him. Want proof?

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God (the Father) was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So if Christ is in you who is in you?

This is not being taught today and that is a very distressing fact.

Ro 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Ro 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[BobRyan]

I see the claim to differing Points of view between Gibs and ClubV12 - but I don't know what the differences are - what am I missing?

in Christ,

Bob

[ClubV12]

There are MANY differences Bob!

I SUPPORT the GC rather than just blindly go along with everything from anybody. I support the Conference and my local church in the same way. I strive as much as possible to be in harmony with my brethren and press together. There are times when we need to make clear our concerns with certain rules and directions to help guide leadership, on the world as well as the local scale. There is never a time we should withdraw our membership and declare leadership is in apostasy. NEVER a time we should refer to the Adventist church as "Babylon". NEVER a time to call Adventists OUT of the church. NEVER a time to say the church has fallen or will fall. Never a time to mix truth, even if it's 90% with error, though it be only 10%. So folks like Bob won't become confused on our true position. Dr. Kellogg was among the first to do that, he won't be the last.

When we leave the church, remove our membership and actively fight against the single object of Gods supreme affection on this earth we side with the evil one. The church will appear to fall, we are told that. It will become increasingly difficult to see HOW we can support such a church, such "apparently" corrupt leadership. The voice of duty is the voice of God. Our duty is to support the church, no matter what it looks like, because it will not fall. It WILL stand, those who have left will be bound together with those who are shaken out.

Though the church were even to go so far as to disfellowship me I would continue to support her. With my tithes, offerings, pen and voice. I would not allow such an act to steal my crown or my faith. I would apply the principle of love and forgiveness and do all within my power to make plain my support of the church.

When we leave and become bitter we loose the right to raise our voice against the church. We loose the right to counsel God's people. We have no voice.

[monty]

V12 could you give a source or two for the churches(SDA) appearance "of about to fall" and the "apparent" corruptness of the church leadership...........Thanks

[ClubV12]

"Satan will work his miracles to deceive; he will set up his power as supreme. The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out--the chaff separated from the precious wheat. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless it must take place."

Selected Messages, Book 2, pg 380

There are some that say leadership, our schools, hospitals, etc. have unsanctified and even corrupt workers and leaders among them, I'm sure they do. I'm also sure God will purify His church through whatever means are required.

Gibs, you make this allegation against the Seventh-day Adventist church:

"Especially on the salvation issue is the teaching all wrong today, it is no different than what I witness against from thoae in the Sunday churches..."

What evidence do you have that the position of the GC is "all wrong" on this point?

[monty]

Thank You

[Gibs]

ClubV12,

You ask,

"What evidence do you have that the position of the GC is "all wrong" on this point"?

From the evidence of many of you as to what you expound on this for one. This has been really one of the beginning battles that have been fought as more and more kept leaving over it until now about all that are left hold the theory, theology that needing to be overcomers isn't needed.

One of the biggest contentions is they say is that we can't overcome like Jesus did that He could walk above sin but we in sinful flesh cannot. Well He too did have our sinful flesh and He did not take any power to overcome the propensities of that flesh but that we can have.

Read,

Ro 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Ro 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Ro 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

That Spirit Paul speaks of there he also spoke of as Christ in you. The Spirit is strong, it is Christ, but the flesh is weak and so our victory comes from His Spirit in us.

This is exactly the reason Christ came as one of us in sinfull flesh that a way would be made that we could be saved, not only from past sin by comming and repenting but to have power over sin. Then He says "Go sin no more"

In a comment not far above I laid out that Christ in us is the same Power He, Christ had in Him.

I believe this E Church business is about the last straw and that it has actually happened and a few at the top have realized what a horrible mistake has been made and now know now will not be rescinded.

A buckling in on Sabbath keeping may come next as it appears in places to be beginning. That will defintely be the last straw.

The last few that will come out will surely come out then I pray.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Dr. Rich]

I see the claim to differing Points of view between Gibs and ClubV12 - but I don't know what the differences are - what am I missing?

in Christ,

Bob

Wisdom (insight) as found in Dan. 12:3 and verse 10. One can't determine the truth, one must find it. It is singular and absolute and stands on it's own.

Truth comes from study of the words of Jesus Christ and Him only--not from anyone else who's opinion is his own doctrine. The wisdom to understand (hear) the words of Jesus given to us by His eyewitensses (only) comes from the Holy Spirit. IF 'it' does not agree with the words of Jesus, then run the other directions quickly! EVEN if it sounds good, nice and fuzzy and you 'feel good' about it, if it does not agree with what Jesus said, then you can and will be mislead into believing false doctrines just as the Catholics, Protistants and Jews did, not to mention all man made religions.

The Kingdom of Heaven is NOT a religion. It is NOT a church. And of course, it is not OF this world.

Matthew 25:14-30 points out that in the last days (we are there now) one can't go to the 'master' to ask Him what to do with the talents he has been given. You must do this on your own, thru the knowledge and truth already given to us in the words of Jesus Christ. NO ONE needs anything more in order to understand how salvation works.

[Bert]

We are told that we are 'to work out our own salvation', meaning that each one of us may have a slightly different viewpoint about salvational issues. However,they should be within the realm of the truths in the Bible, as well as those Biblical doctrines taught by our church that are in agreement with the Bible. None of us should point an accusatory finger at another, whether it be individually, within your local church or the leadership of the church as a whole. We need to support the church and each other, with the understanding that in the last days there will be shaking within the church, thus it is our duty to remain steadfast to our beliefs until the end.

[Twilight II]

The Divine Nature Must be put on and the old sinful nature of the flesh crucified.

This is the truth the Lord is bringing to His people.

It will swell into a loud cry.

Babylon is fallen...

[Twilight II]

But to add, this message is to work inside the church.

Leaven has to be inside.

[Tallmark]

I don't think the Holy Spirit is being withdrawn as much as people are booting it out of their lives. God won't stay where He's not wanted.

[ClubV12]

A good point Tallmark, one could see it that way indeed. We make choices.

I agree it IS possible to be overcomers, to put away all known sin and that is something we need to do. Why? Because it is a natural outworking of seeing, understanding, accepting Jesus wholly into our life. Leaving no stone unturned in that quest, determined to do your part to vindicate God's law. If we don't follow the law from a spirit of love and acceptance the sacrifice is unacceptable.

In the end, it is only God's grace that allows for our forgiveness, He is worthy and by His sacrifice has declared us to be worthy as well.

But enough of the law, we have preached it until we are as dry as the hills of Gilboa. More of Jesus, more of His righteousness, more His love then the law will take care of itself.

[phkrause]

Excellent post Club, I did notice that even though he might disagree, and I say might, because he hasn't left the church over this issue. It seems that even though he believe's it might be wrong, he also realize's that he might be wrong, even though he's not admitting that. Just a thought, because I've never meant nor spoken to him and heard it directly from him.